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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: 20meida20 on Friday 04 September 20 05:43 BST (UK)
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Mary Hill and her younger sister, Biddy arrived in Hobart, Tasmania as immigrants on 16Sept.1854, aboard the "Maitland". They were from Tipperary, Ireland. Mary was 20yrs. old, Biddy 18yrs. They were accompanied on the voyage by their cousins, Mary and Catherine Slattery.
I am trying to trace their parents. Any information about their life in Ireland would be most welcome.
With thanks,
Mary
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What do you know about the lives of -
HILL Mary 20y
HILL Biddy 18y
SLATTERY Mary 20y
SLATTERY Catherine 22y
subsequent to their arrival, Hobart, 1854, "Maitland". Knowing about their later life will be useful in researching their origins.
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Arrival page for Mary and Biddy Hill
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CB7-12-1-1P94J2K
Arrival page for Mary and Catherine Slattery
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CB7-12-1-1P96J2K
A note next to the Slattery sisters says 'cousins Mary & Bridget Hill'
An Ancestry tree suggests Bridget died in Hobart 1925, spinster, 89y
Links to burial records
https://stors.tas.gov.au/AF35-1-3$init=AF35-1-3p160 (https://stors.tas.gov.au/AF35-1-3$init=AF35-1-3p160)
https://stors.tas.gov.au/AF70-1-47$init=AF70-1-47p219jpg (https://stors.tas.gov.au/AF70-1-47$init=AF70-1-47p219jpg)
Another tree suggests that Mary Hill married Jacob Turnbull in Hobart, 1855
This is likely as one witness is Mary(J?) Slattery
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD37-1-14p247j2k
(At least) four births show for the couple; the mother's name is recorded as Mary Margaret, or Margaret
1856 Agnes
1857 Cecilia
1859 unnamed male
1861 unnamed male
The tree suggests that the family moved to New Zealand in the 1860s, and Mary died in 1872
M
ADD:
Death Mary Margaret Turnbull 34y NZ reg 1872/6485
ADD:
Photo of grave for Bridget Hill, includes Ogilvie, Tas. Premier
http://www.gravesoftas.com.au/Cornelian%20Bay%20Live/Roman%20Catholic/C/2/Hill%20Bridget%20C182.jpg
ADD:
'...Bridget Hill, aged 92 years, for thirty years housekeeper to Rev. Dean Woods...'
1925 'Family Notices', The Mercury, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article23813242
ADD:
Marriage of widow Catherine Ogilvie (mother of Premier) to Frank Westbrook, Bridget Hill witness
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD37-1-53p151j2k
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Matthew,
Thank you so much. What a wonderful contribution. It confirms my own research and enables me to conclude with a greater degree of certainty that there is a very high probability these are indeed the sisters from the "Maitland".
I have copies of all relevant RC baptismal records for Tipperary from the findmypast site. Several Mary and Biddy Hills and Mary and Catherine Slatterys, but the parents for each of the sisters are different - no godparents with the names Slattery or Hill.
Would be wonderful to know who their parents were.
With gratitude,
Mary
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...
subsequent to their arrival, Hobart, 1854, "Maitland". Knowing about their later life will be useful in researching their origins.
Hi Mary - as mentioned by wivenhoe, names of parents, other family, towns etc can emerge from marriage and death records and notices and the like.
Do you know what became of the Slattery sisters?
M :)
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Why is Bridget HILL, died 1925, buried in the same plot as the CONNELL...WESTBROOK...OGILVIE folks?
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Why is Bridget HILL, died 1925, buried in the same plot as the CONNELL...WESTBROOK...OGILVIE folks?
Haven't worked that out yet except that Catherine Westbrook/Ogilvie nee Magee (spelling?) and sister(?) are shown in their burial records as born Meath, Ireland
M
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An online tree has NZ marriage certs. for two of the children of Mary Hill and Jacob Turnburn
They are from 1885 and 1886
One has the mother as Margaret Turnbull maiden surname Hill, and the other has her maiden surname as Slattery
M
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You need to see the death certificate for Mary HILL, died 1925 Hobart.
It will record parents' names....years in the colony.
When Mary dies there is someone around who knows her.
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Matthew,
Mary Hill and Jacob Turnbull were my gg grandparents. Their lives are quite well documented. Several family trees exist. I have scrutinized every single document over many years. None reveals the place of birth, nor the birth parents of Mary Hill.
Mary Margaret Turnbull's death certificate reveals very little. (Maiden name Hill). Her daughter, (my g grandmother), Etty's marriage certificate states that her mother's name was Margaret Slattery. I believe this to be an error. Though Etty's birth was unregistered in NZ, other family records would indicate that Mary Hill was indeed her birth mother.
I do not know what became of the Slattery sisters. The Register of the Hiring and Disposal of Immigrants 1854 shows that Mary was sent to the Rev. Murray at Kangaroo Point. (This is where the Turnbulls lived). Catherine was sent to Pittwater. No Tasmanian marriage, birth or death records lead me to state definitively that they remained on the island. Most probably they left.
Again many, many thanks,
Mary
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Looking at 'All Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915' on Ancestry and searching for Biddy Hill or Bridget Hill, Tipperary, 5 years either side of 1835 brings up only one result for each name, neither of families of these have good matches with a Mary Hill that I can see.
If I may put forward for consideration, the use of 'Slattery' for the mother's maiden name in the NZ cert. brings up the possibility that Mary Hill may for some reason have emigrated under an assumed name, and in fact actually be a third Slattery sister.
M
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I think this is very likely your Catherine (Kate Mary) SLATTERY.
Printout of death record, 1896, would record parents.....information about her origins.
BDM Tasmania
AUSTIN female 29 Sep 1857
Parents Abraham AUSTIN butcher / Kate Mary AUSTIN formerly SLATTERY
Informant Kate Mary AUSTIN mother Murray St
AUSTIN female 29 Apr 1859
Parents Abraham AUSTIN butcher / Kate Mary AUSTIN formerly SLATTERY
Informant mother Kate M AUSTIN mother Murray Street (signed)
AUSTIN Austen Francis 8 Jul 1861
Parents Abraham AUSTIN butcher / Kate AUSTIN formerly SLATTERY
Informant Abm AUSTIN father Elizabeth St (signed)
AUSTIN Agnes 12 Mar 1863
Parents Abraham AUSTIN butcher / Kate Mary AUSTIN formerly SLATTERY
Informant Abm AUSTIN father Elizabeth St (signed)
No marriage to find in Tasmania for this couple.
BDM NZ births
1865/17703 AUSTIN Alfred Arthur parents Kate Mary / Abraham
1868/30615 AUSTIN Arthur Augustin parents Kate Mary / Abraham
1870/33284 AUSTIN Amy Grace parents Kate / Abraham
1874/22099 AUSTIN Albert Ernest parents Kate / Abraham
BDM NZ death
1877/3419 AUSTIN Abraham 58Y
1896/2549 AUSTIN Catherine 66Y
Catherine AUSTIN buried Southern Cemetery, Dunedin
died 10 Aug 1896
Abraham AUSTIN buried Southern Cemetery, Dunedin
died 19 Jan 1877
Jacob TURNBULL buried Southern Cemetery Dunedin
last address Clarendon St Dunedin died 13 Apr 1886
Mary TURNBULL buried Southern Cemetery Dunedin
died 11 Jan 1872
Electoral Roll NZ (Ancestry)
1870-1871
TURNBULL Jacob dwelling house Hanover St Dunedin
AUSTIN Abraham house Great King Street Dunedin
1875-1876
TURNBULL Jacob dwelling house Hanover St Dunedin
TURNBULL Coll dwelling house Great King Street Dunedin
AUSTIN Abraham house Great King Street Dunedin
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Possibly Mary Slattery
1855 - 'The undersigned having purchased...well-known business..Mary J. Slattery'
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article3337114
1856 - Pastry Cook wanted, Miss Slattery
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article8784780
1857 - Insolvent court
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article201342553
Marriage 1859 Victoria - Thomas TOBIN to Mary Julia SLATTERY 'daughter of Lawrence Slattery Esq Tipperary'
1859 'Family Notices', http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article66053705
Death - Mary Julia TOBIN, Ararat Victoria 16 June 1901 aged 63y Vic reg. 4223/1901
f. Lawrence SLATTERY m. Julia MURRAY
1901 'Family Notices', The Ballarat Star http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article207503150
Death 1906 Thomas TOBIN 'He married in Maldon a sister of the late Archdeacon Slattery...'
Patrick Joseph SLATTERY
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/slattery-patrick-joseph-4591
M
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From 'All Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915' on Ancestry, search 1835 10y +/-
Parents Lawrence Slattery and Julia Murray/Murry, Nenagh Tipperary
1832 Catherine (mother's name written Julian)
1834 ?? (first name obscured)
1836 William
1840 Eliza
1845 William
Parents John James Hill and Mary Murray, Nenagh Tipperary (EDIT John > James)
1830 John
1833 Mary
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Matthew,
Your work is superb!! Thank you. This is a splendid 'fit' for Mary J. Slattery. I have enjoyed reading it very much.
Mary
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Wivenhoe,
Yes, I think it very likely too that this is the Catherine (Kate Mary) Slattery I have been seeking.
Thank you,
Mary
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Matthew,
Your work is superb!! Thank you. This is a splendid 'fit' for Mary J. Slattery. I have enjoyed reading it very much.
Mary
Thanks, its a very intriguing thread!
A couple of baptism entries from St Joseph's Hobart (TAHO NS1052 microfilm Z2088 Z2089)
Mary Ann TURNBULL born Jan 5 1856, bapt. Jan 30
f. Jacob TURNBULL m. Margaret Mary (olim HILL)
sponsors Peter REYNOLDS, Bridget HILL
Cecilia TURNBULL born June 3 1857 bapt. July 29
f. Jacob TURNBULL m. Margaret Mary (olim HILL)
sponsor Kate Mary AUSTIN
Chaplain for both was Chas. Woods, the Reverend Dean mentioned in Bridget's 1925 death notice
I think the 1856 Agnes birth listed by me previously is likely a different family as the date, father's name and location are mismatches
M
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When Mary Margaret TURNBULL dies, NZ 1877, husband Jacob is sole parent to eight children under thirteen.
Jacob does not remarry. Who is raising these children?.
Mary, Cecilia and William might be taken in by friends / neighbours ....board for domestic work.
The little ones would need more care. I suspect that they are raised by family......SLATTERY / HILL / TURNBULL / AUSTIN?
So far..............is there a record to describe Catherine and Mary SLATTERY to be sisters, or Mary and Biddy HILL to be sisters.....full or half or step etc. Collectively they are described as four cousins? The presentation of their names on the passengers makes it likely, and obviously the first path to take for research.
These two documents would be useful to your research -
BDM NZ death (printout)
1896/2549 AUSTIN Catherine 66Y
BDM VIC marriage
3430/1859 SLATTERY Mary Julia marr. TOBIN, Thomas
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Hi, if the Laurence Slattery is correct then in the tithe records he is listed.
Both places of Ballygibbon and Ballymakey are next to each other.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=slattery&firstname=lau*&county=Tipperary&parish=&townland=&search=Search
Shanrahan is more south nearer to the Tipperary - Waterford border.
1864 is the year Civil records were introduced in Ireland. Harder to find, before then and most Parishes didn't record deaths.
Maggsie
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Have compiled the immigration details with a few question marks on illegible bits
Tasmania Passenger Arrivals, Descriptive List of Immigrants 1854
Catherine Slattery - 22y, RC, R&W, Cy Tipperary, Anything but washing, teach children
Mary Slattery - 20y, RC, R&W, Cy Tipperary, cook small family, ??(edit>needle?) woman housemaid?, not wash
(notes on both) cousins Mary & Bridget Hill; recommended ?? letter from? Bishop
Biddy Hill - 18y, RC, R&W, Cy Tipperary, not? cook or wash, general house service, (remarks) not service?
Mary Hill - 18y, RC, R&W, Cy Tipperary, wash cook housemaid
(notes) sisters
Immigrants Arriving Under the Indenture System 1854-6
Catherine Slattery - 22y, Rom. Cath., Read & Write, Tipperary, Needlewoman
Mary Slattery - 20y, Rom. Cath., Read & Write, Tipperary, Nurserymaid
Biddy Hill - 18y, Rom. Cath.,Read & Write, Tipperary, General servant
Mary Hill - 20y, Rom. Cath.,Read & Write, Tipperary, House servant
Registers of the Hiring and Disposal of Immigrants 1853-6
Catherine Slattery - Oct 5, Needle woman, Mrs Zilli, Orielton Pittwater, £20, 6 months, with rations, signed Eliza Zelly
Mary Slattery - Oct 7, Nursery Maid, Rev. Mr. Murray, Kangaroo Point, £20, 6 months, with rations, signed Wm W F Murray
Biddy Hill - Nov 7, General servant, Mrs Webb, Murray st, £18, 12months, with rations, signed Mrs Webb
Mary Hill - Oct 10, House servant, Mr J Coram, Hobart Town, £20, 6 months, with rations, signed J T Coram
M
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Matthew,
Thank you for transcribing these records. Yes, scribbled notes on the Descriptive List of Immigrants state quite clearly that Mary and Biddy Hill were sisters and Catherine and Mary Slattery their cousins.
The baptismal records are of great interest to me. They confirm some of the new information which has come forth during the past few days. Mary Ann's death certificate states that she was born in 1858. I had always queried that date and thought it far more probable it was 1856.
Shall track down other church records and Bridget Hill's death certificate.
Mary
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Maggsie,
Thanks for your post. Shall delve into it.
Mary
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I'd suggest maybe holding off on Bridget Hill's Tasmanian death certificate as they can be expensive and have blank information. During the week I'll contact the Catholic archives here to see if they have anything on her 30 years of service to Rev Dean Woods, as well as descendant who may have a clue as to why she is buried in the Westbrook/Ogilvie grave. There may be other Turnbull baptisms as well, but they moved around a bit running hotels.
The letter from Bishop (Matin?) would be useful to know if anyone can decipher it
EDIT - There's a note on the far right of the Slattery's entry that I believe reads 'recommended <(insert) letter from Bishop> matin??'
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CB7-12-1-1$init=CB7-12-1-1p96j2k (https://stors.tas.gov.au/CB7-12-1-1$init=CB7-12-1-1p96j2k)
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Another Slattery sister
(Add - marriage 1864)
Dunne - Slattery On the 8th inst. at St Mary's Church Castlemaine by the Rev P Smyth Catholic Administrator, Joseph Henry Dunne, Esq, Crown Prosecutor, to Lizzie Mary, youngest daughter of the late Laurence Slattery Esq, Nenagh, County of Tipperary, Ireland
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197442488
Accidental death 1897
'...a sister of Dean Slattery of Geelong'
1897 'A POSTMISTRESS BURNT TO DEATH.', The Australasian (Melbourne, Vic. : 1864 - 1946), 25 December, p. 38. , http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138632200
Family details unknown in Vic death reg
M
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Articles re the death of Joseph Henry Dunne
1877 'THE LATE MR. DUNNE.', The McIvor Times and Rodney Advertiser http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article91836931
1877 'DEATH OF MR. J. H. DUNNE.', Bendigo Advertiser http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88209329
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Matthew,
I am immensely grateful. Thank you. Shall look forward to see what you discover.
Very sobering newspaper cuttings - quite graphic really.
I am unable to access the letter to be deciphered. Link takes me to immigration records.
Mary
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I am unable to access the letter to be deciphered. Link takes me to immigration records.
Apologies, I worded that poorly and have edited it above, it is in the immigration record
There is a line that I think indicates that the words 'letter from Bishop' should be placed after 'recommended', and the last word would be the name or maybe title(?) of the Bishop
Two more baptisms
Alfred Jacob TURNBULL born Feb 2 1861 bapt. April 12
f. Jacob TURNBULL m. Mary Margaret (olim HILL)
sponsor Eliza PENDERGAST
Percival James TURNBULL born Oct 25 1862 bapt. Nov 2
f. Jacob TURNBULL m. Mary Margaret (olim HILL)
sponsor Kate Mary AUSTIN
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Matthew,
How did you gain access to the baptismal records? Through the TAHO site or the Catholic Archives website. The originals would be held at St. Joseph's Church in Hobart? How would I go about acquiring copies (printouts) of the originals? William's would be of interest to me, as would Etty's and the other children born in NZ.
No luck in deciphering 'matin'. I do not think it is the name of the bishop who provided recommendations for the Slatterys. (No initial capital and outside the brackets).
Shall wait to see if you receive any further information about Bridget Hill before summarizing the findings.
I continue to look very closely at the Slattery/Murray/Hill connections.
With thanks,
Mary
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How did you gain access to the baptismal records? Through the TAHO site or the Catholic Archives website. The originals would be held at St. Joseph's Church in Hobart? How would I go about acquiring copies (printouts) of the originals? William's would be of interest to me, as would Etty's and the other children born in NZ.
The Catholic baptisms are from microfilm at TAHO and not accessible online, PM me with an email address and I can reply with the PDF copies I scanned
Shall wait to see if you receive any further information about Bridget Hill before summarizing the findings.
Unfortunately no luck with further information on Bridget
M
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From: Father John Murphy's "saddlebag" records : Catholic baptisms, Huon District 1855-1864 / compiled by Joyce Purtscher.
Father John Murphy travelled the Huon region doing his duties as a priest and recording these on large sheets of paper that he carried in his saddlebag and then transferred into the register at St James, Franklin.
Born - 12 May 1859
Bapt. - 11 Jun 1859
TURNBULL William
Parents - TURNBULL Jacob, HILL Mary Margaret
Sponsors - SLATTERY Laurence, HILL Bridget
Birth reg.
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-37p439j2k
Given the location of Shipwright's Point, I think it is questionable that either of the sponsors were present. It is possible in the Catholic church for a proxy to stand as witness for an absent sponsor. From a quick google, the record should have the name of the proxy recorded as well, and the original may do so.
Or, a big question mark as to how Laurence Slattery is a sponsor
M
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Matthew,
I first read of Fr. John Murphy's exploits and the "Saddlebag" records some time ago and thought it quite a remarkable story - certainly memorable. It had crossed my mind that William's and Alfred's baptismal records (not Percy's, as I thought originally) may have been in those saddlebags, but I dismissed the idea as fanciful!! Thank you.
Jacob Turnbull was the licensee of the Culloden Tavern, Shipwright's Point, Franklin (1859-1861).
Odd the way in which Laurence Slattery keeps re-emerging in this saga.
Mary