RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: BronwenS on Saturday 05 September 20 21:39 BST (UK)
-
Kia ora
I have this 'intro' into a long list of items and their valuation. I just want to check the names and any other possible identifiers.
? late of ? ?maker
I can see Salop, Thomas Jones, Ricardo ?, Roger Harnett, Thomas ? Davyd Taylor
Nga mihi
Bronwen
Aotearoa
-
......Rafe Rayder late
of Condon deceased.....
I think it's Condon Bronwen.
What does the actual will say?
Same goes for his occupation. There's not many letters before 'maker'. Looks like an 'S' but it's uncrossed like the one in 'Salop'.
Names of the appraisors:
Thomas Jones, Richarde Smythe, Roger Hassnett, Thomas Haterwarde (possibly!),
Davyd Tayler
-
Thanks Goldie, I don't have a proper will. I didn't think these sorts of things had 'proper' wills. But it doesn't say who will get anything so perhaps I have that wrong. I just have this intro and a very long list of items and prices. I could of course have the wrong person, I was hoping it would give me some idea and mention his wife or Anne Ryder his daughter.
Just been watching The Nation and our election to come.
Nga mihi nui
Bronwen
1575 RYDER
Raffe/Ralph Ryder
b.
m.1597 Jan 30 Margarett Waring, Condover, Shropshire
d.1604 Mar 22 Condover, Shropshire, (cert gives cause of death)
-
In which case I'd say the upward stroke and squiggle at the end of what I thought was 'Condon', will be an abbreviation for 'er', making 'Condover'. (hard to differentiate the minims for an 'n' and a 'v' here).
You'll be relieved about the Christchurch news! :)
-
Found some transcripts of Condover regs.
Is that Raffe's wife Margaret that got remarried Oct 14th 1604 just a few months after Raffe died?
Marriage to a Richard Shutt.
Not sure quite when marriage licences came in - there may be one if she was a widow, though I think 1604 is a bit early. I have some in the 16302 and 1620s - the earliest from 1610, so you may be lucky. Or it may say in the actual register if she was a widow.
She would be left with 2 very small children after his death. One of the few ways to survive back then was to remarry.
Ann bap 20th March 1602, and Francis 27th Dec 1598.
Perhaps there's a will for Richard Shutt which mentions his step children? Or his father?
-
His occupation is 'shomaker'.
-
Great thanks for his trade I love to know what people did for a living.
Goldie that was really helpful, I do have the marriages and deaths for all of Shropshire on disc here, but the second marriage doesn't show up but her death does when she is a widow again in 1643. So I can pursue possible other children.
She had two children by her first marriage but her first born died the same day as he was born.
I suppose people got used to all of that back in the day.
When you said the news here, I assume you are talking about the arrest for murder of someone today, a long way from where we live so I am a bit immune to it all.
nga mihi nui
Bronwen
-
Thomas Haterwarde (possibly!)
Looking at the L in Lorde and comparing to the various examples of H, I think it's Latewarde.
-
Many thanks for Latewarde.
Goldie, there is a will - in fact 2, one for 1611 and another for 1632 for a Richard Shutt, but neither on the British archives site that I can see.
thanks to you both.
Bronwen
Aotearoa - thunderstorm just starting!
-
Here's the transcription site for Condover registers.
http://www.melocki.org.uk/salop/Condover.html
Here's the page before - all Shropshire records.
http://www.melocki.org.uk/MelockiSalop.html
It looks like this Mel Lockie must be related to Rosemary Lockie whose 'wishful thinking' site I have used extensively. More Derbyshire and staffs focused, but has a wealth of info other than just births, deaths, marriages.
http://gukutils.org.uk/index.php
-
Goldie, there is a will - in fact 2, one for 1611 and another for 1632 for a Richard Shutt, but neither on the British archives site that I can see.
What do you mean by 'British Archives' site?
So where did you find them?
-
Ok. So found them
They are at Lichfield - this is from Rosemary Lockie's wishful thinking site - all free!
http://wishful-thinking.org.uk/cgi-bin/lichdb.pl?&disp=20&sort=Date&range=0&county=0&peculiar=4&surname=shutt&sndx=on&p=2
I don't have a sub for findmypast - are they not on there? Lichfield wills should be.
If not, you'd have to send to Stafford Record Office, which is where all Lichfield diocese wills are now held. Not sure if they are open for business - you'd need to check their website.
Added: Ryder wills also listed here
http://wishful-thinking.org.uk/cgi-bin/lichdb.pl?&disp=20&sort=Date&range=0&county=0&peculiar=4&surname=ryder&sndx=on&p=2
I see your Ralph that died 1605 says 'ad' - administration. Is there not an administration that goes with the inventory you had?
Where did you find that? findmypast? I should check there's not another page - sometimes before the image you'd taken to, sometimes after it. It might be worth checking with Stafford RO to see if there's a page missing - not unheard of! I'm sure they'd check if you sent en email, or even rang up - I've done that many times (when the wills were still at Lichfield RO) and before they became available on line. You never know, the administration might mention his wife.
-
Thanks for all of that. I have been on Melockie many times before, but didn't check it out this time.
The National Archives that is letting us have wills free at the moment doesn't have a will for Ralph but they are mentioned on Ancestry, so a little bit of detail. So the Lichfield as you have said.
I found that list of items is on Find My past which I can only see at the library. I will check again when at the library to see whether there is anything more but I usually do scroll them back and forth to make sure I have everything.
I have never seen the wishful thinking site at all.
I really appreciate all the help you have given me.
Nga mihi nui
Bronwen
-
If this was, indeed, an administration, I'm afraid it won't give much detail. It will give you the name of the person to whom the administration of the estate was granted - probably his widow, but as he left no will, there will not be any further details of the family. The document you attached was the heading of the inventory of Raffe's estate - this had to be produced before administration was granted.
As his widow remarried, all her posessions would become the property of her new husband, so she may have provided for her children before the marriage of course.
-
Many thanks for that explanation.
Nga mihi nui
Bronwen
Aotearoa