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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dunbartonshire => Topic started by: Terri Kessler on Monday 07 September 20 21:39 BST (UK)
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Hi. I have some confusion on this marriage.
Margaret Gardner married John Shirlock (or Sherlock) on 3.20.1868. Apparently he died. I am still looking for his death record.
Margaret Sherlock (or Shirlock), a widow, married Robert Love, a widow. I have multiple marriage dates on the children’s birth records as follows:
Annie Gardner Love b 1879 shows 3.20.1874, Glascow (Info provided by Margaret Love on birth)
Mary Love b 1879 shows 3.20.1874, Hutchisontown (sp?) Glascow (Info provided by Margaret Love on birth)
Robert Love b 1881 shows 6.1.1874, Dennistown (sp?) (Info provided by Robert Love)
Catherine Love b 1883 shows 6.18.1880 Dennistoun, Glascow (Info provided by Margaret Love)
Wilson Love b 1885 shows 6.1.1874 Dennistoun, Glascow (Info provided by Robert Love)
John Love b 1889 shows 6.1.1874 Dennistoun, Glascow (Info provided by Robert Love)
I cannot find any marriage records for 3.20.1874 or 6.1.1874. I did find the marriage record for 6.18.1880 and it seems to match.
Any thoughts on this?
Much appreciated!
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In the UK 6.1.1874 means 6 January 1874. It's always a good idea to write the month in letters, e.g. 6 Jan 1874 or 1 Jun 1874, to avoid any possibility of confusion.
And the city is Glasgow, not Glascow.
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Annie Gardner Love was b 1877 - not 1879
If Margaret married John Sherlock 20th March 1868 it seems a bit coincidental that she then married Robert Love also on 20th March of whatever year
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTYD-N4T
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What info is given on the 1868 marriage cert - how old was John & what was his occupation? What were his parents names? If he was a mariner he may have died at sea
The absence of a marriage to Love suggests that John was possibly alive and the marriage broke down. The 1881 for Robert & Margaret has no Shirlock children
Have you looked for John on the 1881 census? There is a John Sherlock b 1849 living with his father Samuel in Glasgow
In 1871 Margaret is working as a servant in Lanarkshire indexed as Sherlock
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There is a marriage in 1880 to Robert Love showing both surnames for Margaret - Gardiner & Sherlock
You can download it at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
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In the UK 6.1.1874 means 6 January 1874. It's always a good idea to write the month in letters, e.g. 6 Jan 1874 or 1 Jun 1874, to avoid any possibility of confusion.
And the city is Glasgow, not Glascow.
My apologies on my typos. Annie was born 1877. Glascow was a spelling and I will remember about the dates.
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When Margaret registers the birth of daughters Annie in 1877, and Mary in 1879, and needing to give marriage details, Margaret uses her own marriage to John SHIRLOCK...20 March.
Margaret needs a date that is easy to remember, and that describes these girls to be born to married parents, and a mother who was not pregnant when she married. To that end, the year just has to suit that purpose. Marriage 1874 would seem to generously cover the 1877 birth, so I wonder if there is a child older than Annie?
At birth of Catherine, 1883, Margaret gives her correct marriage date.
Robert LOVE consistently gives 1 Jun 1874 for marriage date. Maybe that is his marriage date...1 Jun....and maybe 1874. June 1st is the date that is easy for him to remember.
When people are having a family together, and no marriage to find, it is usually because one or both is still married to someone else.
By 1880, that matter has been resolved.......death of spouse is confirmed, or enough time has passed to feel safe about marrying.
If you are wanting to account for John SHIRLOCK you need to list all the information from the 1868 marriage certificate. How does it describe his origins?
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Terri
Replies 3 & 4 refer. Any info available to help trace John?
EDIT
Full 1881 details - no children born before 1877 showing on the entry. As the marriage to Robert was 1880 and both Annie's 1877 birth and Mary's 1879 birth were registered as Love ........
Robert Love 31 b Ireland - iron driller in shipyard
Margaret 33 b Kilbirnie Ayrshire
Annie 4 b Partick
Mary 2 Old Kilpatrick Dumbartonshire
ED4 Page 10 Line 11
EDIT
1891/1901 - no Robert snr but no death in Dunbarton for him
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Carole
20 Mar 1868 Marriage Record (which is hard to read):
John Shirlock, Iron Shingler, 22, 69 Gaengad (sp?) Hill, Glascow;
Parents are Thomas Shirlock, Furnaceman and Elisabeth Shirlock, maiden name Lewis;
Margaret Gardiner, Domestic Servant, 20, 69 Gaengad ((sp?) Hill, Glascow;
Parents are James Gardiner, Furnaceman, deceased and Ann Gardiner, maiden name (can’t read)
I do have the 1881 Census record referred to below showing Robert Love, 31 b Ireland, Iron Driller. I have not found a death record for him yet, nor for John Shirlock, or Sherlock.
20 Apr 1920 Death Record for Margaret Love:
Margaret Love, d 7 Miller Street, Clydebank
1st - Sherlock (no first name)
2nd - Robert Love, Iron Driller
Parents: Thomas Gardiner, Furnaceman, deceased and Ann Gardiner, maiden name O’Hara, deceased
Informant was son, Wilson Love, 168 High Street
No children found yet prior to Annie.
Wivenhoe,
Your response makes sense. Wasn’t sure if they would lie about there marriage dates in the children’s birth certificates.
Terri
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Does the 1880 marriage cert show Margaret as a widow? No death for John 1868-1880
Don't have access to the 1871 image for Margaret so don't know what her marital status was
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Think this could be John in 1861 - surname Sherlock and all b England - living in Old Monkland
Thomas 42 bar iron furnaceman
Elizabeth 41
Jane 18
John 16 bar iron roller
ED 7 Page 21 Line 11
1871 for parents has a 2yr old Thomas Sherlock - grandson but no other children
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Carole,
Yes, See attached record.
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What attached record?
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In 1881 - 12yr old Thomas Sherlock b Glasgow is in the Mossbank Industrial School
EDIT - wrong Thomas - see later reply #23
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Sorry Carole, I tried to attach but it did not come through.
28 Jun 1880 Marriage to Robert Love:
Married 28 June,1880 at 5 Westercraigs, Dennistoun, Glascow after Publication according to the forms of the Free Church of Scotland;
Robert Love, 29, Shipbuilder/Journeyman, widowed, 14 Taylor Street, Glascow;
Parents: John Love, General Labourer, and Mary Jane Love nee Wilson;
Margaret Gardner or Sherlock, Sewing Machinist, widow; 14 Taylor Street, Glascow;
Parents: Thomas Gardner, Iron Work Furnaceman, deceased and Ann Gardner nee O’Hara.
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1851 for Monmouthshire Wales - both children b Monmouthshire
Thomas Sherlock 32 b Carmarthenshire
Elizabeth 31 b Carmarthenshire
Jane 8
John 5
plus 2 lodgers
HO107/2447/560/32
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Freebmd has an 1845 birth for John Sherlock - GRO online shows mothers maiden name Lewis
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Quick sum up
John Sherlock was b 1845 Monmouthshire. One older sister Jane
Between 1851-1861 family moved from Wales to Lanarkshire
1861 with parents Thomas & Elizabeth & sister Jane
1871 no trace of John in England, Scotland or Wales
1871 wife Margaret working as a servant. Marital status n/k
1877-1879 Margaret has 2 children registered as Love
1880 - Margaret remarries as a widow but no death for John in E&W or Scotland
If he died before 1877 -she was free to marry Love (but Love may still have been married)
1871 has John's parents with a 2yr old grandson Thomas. Was he the son of John & Margaret? Was he the illegitimate son of John's sister Jane?
EDIT
See later reply #22 - confirmed as son of John & Margaret
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Gaengad (sp?) Hill, Glascow
Garngad Hill, Glasgow.
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Thank you Forfarian!
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Thanks Carole! Reviewing. :)
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In 1861 Jane Sherlock married William Abbey Evans.
In 1871 they have a servant Ann Gardner b 1850 Kilbirnie Ayrshire. Likely to be Margaret's sister
1871 ref ED 18 page 34 line 9
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Birth showing on FS for Thomas Shirlock 5 Oct 1868 Glasgow- parents John Shirlock and Margaret Gardiner.
William
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How sad is that. Son ends up with grandparents then in an industrial school while mum has 2 more children & a new husband. Poor child
EDIT
Wrong Thomas. 1881 entry mentioned at reply 13 is son of John & Mary Ann in 1891. John b Glasgow - not Wales
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Wonder if Thomas is the Thomas John Sherlock aged 3 died 1871
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Marriage -
GARDNER - SHIRLOCK, 1868
GARDNER / SHIRLOCK - LOVE, 1880
What names do you see for witnesses?
Where was the 1868 marriage.....location and denomination.?
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Am I right in thinking that the only 2 unresolved issues are the death of John Shirlock/Sherlock
pre 1880 and whether the Thomas John Sherlock who died in 1871 aged 3yrs was their son?
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Marriage -
GARDNER - SHIRLOCK, 1868
GARDNER / SHIRLOCK - LOVE, 1880
What names do you see for witnesses?
Where was the 1868 marriage.....location and denomination.?
Carole,
Gardner - Shirlock, 1868
The witnesses on the 1868 marriage record are:
James Young for Shirlock
Thomas Colley for Margaret Gardiner.
The parents are not the same on this marriage cert for Margaret. It says James Gardiner (Furnaceman) and Ann Gardner (sp?). I cannot read her maiden name.
I have Margaret's parents as Thomas Gardiner (Furnaceman) and Ann Gardner (maiden name O’Hara), Denomination is Methodist Church, 64 Parson Street, Glasgow
GARDNER / SHIRLOCK - LOVE, 1880
The witnesses are:
George Davidson for Robert Love
John (can't read last name)
Parents are correct for both
Denomination is The Church of Scotland, married Glasgow