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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: chrissiecruiser on Sunday 13 September 20 23:40 BST (UK)
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Hi Rootschatters,
Chris here from South Australia.
I feel sooooo lucky!
We have not had any cases in my area of Aussie, a small population and strict border controls between us and Victoria (who have a new surge and in lockdown). The border is close by.
Life for me is on a small farm, tending animals and garden which will be fairly self sufficient as the weather warms up.
I can have my family here and return their visits.
My thoughts are with you all, and hope things get much better for everyone.
🤞🥰
Cheers
Chris
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Morning Chris
It’s so interesting to hear about someone else’s life at the moment, yours sounds lovely.
My heart has sunk this morning as the reality of the rule of six, which comes into force today, dawns on me.
I know it’s ridiculous but it feels a bit like when the teacher used to punish the whole class for one person’s misdemeanour when no one would own up. :D
I have been so careful and had only just made tentative small steps into the outside world again.
Oh well it’s all for the best.
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QUOTE:
Oldfashionedgirl:
"I know it’s ridiculous but it feels a bit like when the teacher used to punish the whole class for one person’s misdemeanour when no one would own up."
If people were banned from travelling from one end of the UK to the other for holidays, (and flying heaven knows where too,) we would be in a far better position, and we might not be in a situation where legally, we can be indoors with 100 people, but we can't be in a garden with 7 others.
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legally, we can be indoors with 100 people, but we can't be in a garden with 7 others.
This is my biggest issue with the rule of six. How can they actively encourage people to eat out and go back to the office when they consider it 'dangerous' to meet up with family in your own home or garden? We could be in an office with 100 people but can't all meet up during the lunch break at the pub or even in the park. It makes no sense.
Rishile
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Hi Oldfashionedgirl,
Firstly, my heart breaks for you all and wish you well.
I'm terrified it will come here as I am in the wrong lot!!!
70yrs 8mths, have had lung problems and brain bleeds etc etc.
Of course it's probably not if, but when.
Plod along, hopefully getting fitter at the gym twice weekly so that I can take my pony and cart off camping with friends.
Love to you.
Chris
💓
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I know it’s necessary and for the best but I have really reached my lowest point in all of lockdown. I have abided by the rules and made the best of it and just got on as best I could.
I have not been on a bus, in a cafe, pub , restaurant or supermarket since March.
I host a weekly craft evening with 3 other girlfriends, we had only just resumed last month. We are of huge social and emotional support to each other and I’m going to miss it.
Truly I feel total lockdown would be easier, at least you know what you can and can’t do ! :(
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So nice to hear some news from Australia, and that re Covid 19 it is good in a bad situation.
You had the fires which concerned us very much and about which we could really do nothing but send kind words and hopes.
Now you send kind thoughts to us in return, thank you very much.
I am lucky in that I see people passing ,I am the end house and a little lane much used as a short cut passes the full length of my rear garden.
So lots of short chats which is pleasant.
My son lives in what at the moment is the highest number per 100,000 cases in the country ,so perhaps won’t be able to come this week with fresh shopping otherwise I shop online now ,so handy.
The winter will be hard , am supposed to go to my daughter’s for Christmas .We try to all get together ,two sons and wives ,daughter and husband and my two grandchildren and a little spark of delight ,great grandson aged four.
But I can see travel being restricted ,son in law phoned to assure me he would pick me up ,so no train travel etc but I can see restrictions if this is not under better control and stupid selfish people, mixed messages etc all make it unlikely there will be a swift end to this.
The rules contradict ,as has been explained.
So really I am in lockdown still .
Thanks again, all good wishes ,really nice to hear from you.
Viktoria.
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No more than 6 Oldfashionedgirl. So you can have 4 at your craft sessions.
Enjoy! :D
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What doesn't make sense is that the six that can meet inside can now be from 6 different households, whereas formerly it was restricted to two households. This gives a greater chance for people to go home and spread it to more households if one of the group were infected.
Our U3A family history group has 4 members and meets in the leader's house, but because we are all different households we could not meet even though the number is less than six. But now, with cases rising in our area -as they are all over the country, we could legally meet again. Unlikely though, as we are elderly and some may have medical conditions which make them particularly vulnerable.
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As many will know, I live on the Isle of Man where we have had just 1 Covid case since 20th May.
Our borders are locked down; but Manx residents can leave. Just need forms to be signed and permission sought to return ;D Followed by 14 days self-isolation.
No face masks here; no social distancing required. No Rule of 6 ;D
Punishments for transgressing the rules can involve jail for the worst offenders.
A Bulgarian chap went back to Bulgaria to visit family; went back to work as a restaurant delivery driver after a few days!
Jailed for 8 weeks!
And all the restaurant staff, and customers now have to be tested.
The local theatre is open; most pubs and restaurants are open.
Food & Drink Festival (all local produce) is this weekend.
Just no visitors.
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legally, we can be indoors with 100 people, but we can't be in a garden with 7 others.
This is my biggest issue with the rule of six. How can they actively encourage people to eat out and go back to the office when they consider it 'dangerous' to meet up with family in your own home or garden? We could be in an office with 100 people but can't all meet up during the lunch break at the pub or even in the park. It makes no sense.
Rishile
The whole point of this seems to be being entirely missed and overlooked here.
In your own home and garden who is there to monitor the situation - nobody, so after a few drinks social distancing might well go out the window.
In a restaurant, pub etc it is a requirement for those proprietors to ensure that social distancing is adhered to both by the set up of the furniture etc and by monitoring during the gathering.
So it is felt it is safer to allow people to meet up in organised environments although obviously this isn't regularly policed whereas people meeting socially might be inclined to unintentionally go beyond the rules.
The 'dangerous' element is the non regulation of the situation in private homes and gardens.
Pheno
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Sadly not Mousehowse as in Scotland it’s only two households and we are 4 :(
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My daughter's friend has 4 children but was determined her youngest would have a birthday party so dad will be taking the 3 older children out while the birthday girl can party with mummy and 4 friends,then have a family party later.
We've got to try & be creative so we don't let it get us down. I was very low recently but I'm trying to be more positive. We can't change the situation but we can change how we think of it - & it WON'T be forever.
Although..... I just had my flu jab - as usual arm hot, sore and swollen for several days, flu like symptoms for a couple of days - I dread to think how I would react to a Covid vaccination ;D
(won't stop me having one though ;) )
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legally, we can be indoors with 100 people, but we can't be in a garden with 7 others.
This is my biggest issue with the rule of six. How can they actively encourage people to eat out and go back to the office when they consider it 'dangerous' to meet up with family in your own home or garden? We could be in an office with 100 people but can't all meet up during the lunch break at the pub or even in the park. It makes no sense.
Rishile
Six in England is a deliberate attempt to stop gatherings of people inside / out (of more than 6) where at some we have all seen Social Distancing go out the window. It also comes with new Legal powers and Enforcement.
Pubs, Shops, Restaurants, Hotels, permitted Venues, Workplaces and Offices should all still be abiding and managing Covid Rules that were put in place as the UK Lockdown was released.
Many UK establishments took or had health advice and some have been getting visits from Local Authority Public Health Officers especially where a complaint suggests they have failed to comply or manage their premises or people safely.
Quite a lot of UK premises and places are regulated by Law for Health and Safety ...
HSE https://www.hse.gov.uk/legislation/acts.htm
I hope that goes some way to answer the difference between regulated premises and unregulated gatherings (now restricted by English Law) where we have seen Social Distancing go out of the window sometimes.
It is a pity that some private, public gatherings or illegal gatherings and raves have failed to make any attempt to try and keep their visitors and attendees safe.
Mark
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I've often wondered why we British (and I include Scotland etc - yes, even the smug IoM in this - seem to be so quick to obey rules and regulations, even though a lot of the time they make little sense (as illustrated by the preceding posts)?
Like most people, I started out thinking lockdown etc was for my own good as well as that of the nation and kept to the ''rules' but now I've had enough of all this chopping and changing; total government ineptitude and I openly say: who on earth is going to notice if you have 7 people in your house at Christmas or any other time? Unless we all turn 'informer' as in a true police state! (covid wardens?!?)
By what right do nonentities like Hancock make edicts governing how you live your life, and seemingly change these pettifogging rules on a daily basis? Where is Parliament? We no longer appear to live in a democracy. They saw how compliant we all were during lockdown and are now taking advantage. We are being restrained. We are being tricked and bullied. Its a slippery slope.
I know I keep banging the same drum, and will continue to do so when people just shrug their shoulders and say things like 'its for the best'. Says who?
I read posts on here and see that many are genuinely afraid of the virus but just as afraid of contravening these ridiculous 'rules'. My heart does go out to them but I also want to shake them into seeing what is really going on.
If the government really cared about us, they'd have given over track and trace to local areas to administer by now instead of putting it into the hands of private set ups owned by people of their own ilk. Even after all these months of the whole thing being a complete mess, they won't even consider it! There must be money to be made by people with names like Dido!! We are, and always will be to these people, mere 'cannon fodder'.
I'm not advocating attending raves or street parties, really I'm not. I know we have to be sensible for our own good, but neither am I happy to just obey incompetence. I don't think I'm alone in this - I can see trouble ahead if these politicians don't pull themselves together and stop trying to turn us into a dystopian 1984.
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The whole point of this seems to be being entirely missed and overlooked here.
In your own home and garden who is there to monitor the situation - nobody, so after a few drinks social distancing might well go out the window.
In a restaurant, pub etc it is a requirement for those proprietors to ensure that social distancing is adhered to both by the set up of the furniture etc and by monitoring during the gathering.
So it is felt it is safer to allow people to meet up in organised environments although obviously this isn't regularly policed whereas people meeting socially might be inclined to unintentionally go beyond the rules.
The 'dangerous' element is the non regulation of the situation in private homes and gardens.
Pheno
Gatherings in a garden, or inside for that matter, do not necessarily involve ‘a few drinks’. Whilst I can see that there is a need for one fixed number so that there is no confusion, I still think that the other allowed meetings - schools, restaurants, pubs, and work do diminish the power of the requirement.
I have just been on an essential visit to my local town centre. We are still under greater restrictions than other places, I think, but who knows.
We passed a Covid testing centre where the queue wound round and then up the street.
Most (of the few) people in the shopping centre wore masks but as the tram passed it was evident that several passengers did not wear masks and the tram was quite full.
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Gatherings in a garden, or inside for that matter, do not necessarily involve ‘a few drinks’. Whilst I can see that there is a need for one fixed number so that there is no confusion, I still think that the other allowed meetings - schools, restaurants, pubs, and work do diminish the power of the requirement.
Of course they don't have to involve drinks, but even so, for whatever garden or inside gathering in a private home its quite likely that someone would say 'oh come and look at this photo I have on my phone' or something similar and before you know it 8 people would be in a huddle and then forget to move away etc Under this rule at least it will be only 6 people who unintentionally stray.
The supposition is that if that sort of thing were to occur inside an establishment, a café for instance, the proprietor would step in to break up the huddle.
That's the theory behind it - does it work, probably not.
Pheno
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I thought it was just me— old lady of the generation that respected any authority ,even without any surveillance.
The generation which at school could be relied on to get on with our work quietly staying our our seats etc when teacher had to leave the room .
Who never took off your school hat even when in the second bus home from school
Who would have seen us without our hats ?
But that was not the point .
We obeyed.
Things have changed so much ,but I totally agree ,the mixed messages, very confused limits , conducive to flaunting the rules .
It is not good ,not good at all.
However , I will stay in lockdown ,that is the easiest for me.
I truly am glad I am not young with a family.
But I never thought my last years would be without my family , they are obeying the strictest conditions ,even though for one a thriving flourishing business is in jeopardy.
And that means a loyal skilled team who are like part of the family will go down as well.
Things ,however mixed and confusing ,
are not helped by selfish people ,the surge in Bolton ,the highest per 100,000 in the country , has been traced to three pubs and returning holidaymakers who did not self isolate on return.
Those sort of incidents prove lockdown was eased far too soon.
Horse gone and stable door !
Viktoria.
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Another four videos were played on my TV this weekend which showed closely packed crowds of people dancing, laughing, having a good time. It's noticeable that the ones who are refusing to heed any warning belong to the twenty-thirty age range. These are the ones who are most vociferous with complaints that their rights aren't being met.
This type has been responsible for causing lockdowns at various times in various places and which had meant that the remedial operation on my eyesight originally planned for March 2020 has not been able to be carried out The first delay was caused by a national lockdown. My driver/son, myself and the hospital are in three difference towns, which have all had to lockdown during different months. I am holding my breath that there will not be any further lockdowns prior to my last ditch appointment on 28th September, when the NHS/private contract runs out.
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Another four videos were played on my TV this weekend which showed closely packed crowds of people dancing, laughing, having a good time. It's noticeable that the ones who are refusing to heed any warning belong to the twenty-thirty age range. These are the ones who are most vociferous with complaints that their rights aren't being met.
Personally I think it is more noticeable that this is the age group they choose to display to all and sundry as flouting the rules - i very much doubt it is just that age group.
Pheno
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Face masks are to blame. People are emboldened by them and think they're immune when wearing one.
I agree that the media are probably stirring things by blaming the young and their socialising. It'll just be a minority, as always.
I've just been watching the US Open tennis from New York on tv and they did a marvellous job. No spectators other than player's support teams and officials. Everyone seemed to be keeping their distance and - yes - wearing face masks, except the players of course. I felt sorry for the ball boys and girls running about wearing those face coverings all the time but they didn't need to do it if they were allergic to the damn things.
Having been deprived of my tennis fix for all these months, I thoroughly enjoyed it and it all seemed to go very well. I suppose only time will tell: hopefully there won't be lots of covid cases amongst those who took part or officiated in a couple of weeks time.
The delayed French Open is due to take place in Paris in 2 weeks and I've heard that they are going to allow some fans in to watch, so I suppose the two events together might act as a kind of social experiment. Good for the French! No doubt the spectators seats will be like our buses: ticks where you can sit and crosses where you can't, and no doubt they'll all have to do their impressions of bank robbers and hide their faces.
(Actually, when I got on the bus last week, I had to look around for a 'ticked' seat as there were a few more people on than has previously been the case - I was wondering if all the 'ticked' seats had been occupied (there aren't that many), would the driver have thrown me off or let me stand?)
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Face masks are to blame. People are emboldened by them and think they're immune when wearing one.
I doubt if many, if any, of the attendees were wearing face masks at this event
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-54130945?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment_and_arts&link_location=live-reporting-story
This building is 350 sq metres - not much social distancing there with 300 people.
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How on earth can you have a silent disco? I've read the link - and still none the wiser.
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I had to look it up as well ;D
Apparently the participants wear earphones and the sound is sent to them wirelessly so they all dance to the music in their heads. That way no sound leaks from the building and these gatherings are more difficult to detect
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All becomes clear! Thanks, LizzieL. I wonder why the article assumed we all knew that?
I still think these incidents are the exception rather than the norm but the media are swooping on them for a good story.
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The thing I really fail to understand is when did 'keep yourself safe' change to 'keep everyone else safe'? I can (and do) keep myself and my OH as safe as possible by doing all the things we are supposed to (washing hands, social distancing etc) but as soon as we try to keep everyone else safe by wearing a face covering, then I fail to see how that can work. People with breathing difficulties, disabilities etc. are exempt but are also the most likely to suffer serious complications from the virus. So, I wear a mask to keep them safe but they don't have to wear one to keep me safe. Some disabilities could wear a mask with no real issue but they are still exempt.
Can anyone tell me how many 'grannies' have been killed by their grandchildren during this pandemic?
Rishile
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Face masks are to blame. People are emboldened by them and think they're immune when wearing one.
Since face masks were required, there has been a noticed change at Supermarkets, to Social Distancing.
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International Journal of Oral Science
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41368-020-0080-z
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I have an average size furnished front room and with 2 metre Social Distancing 6 persons would be a maximum.
My Wife has met up with her friends and this 2 mtrs+ has been very strictly adhered to, in her Conservatory (access via back gate). Because her Son is a Medical Photographer.
Mark
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Hi Rootschatters,
Chris here from South Australia.
I feel sooooo lucky!
We have not had any cases in my area of Aussie, a small population and strict border controls between us and Victoria (who have a new surge and in lockdown). The border is close by.
Life for me is on a small farm, tending animals and garden which will be fairly self sufficient as the weather warms up.
I can have my family here and return their visits.
My thoughts are with you all, and hope things get much better for everyone.
🤞🥰
Cheers
Chris
Idyllic
Spare a thought for my Niece and her partner.
They live in central Melbourne.
Will she social distance, no.
Does she care about anyone else, no.
All she is interested in is having a good time and she is neigh on 40.
It would not surprise me if she was not the centre of the any peak in cases.
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Ohhh, Biggles50,
Why don't people WAKE UP!
I have friends in Melbourne too but they are also in their 70's and they are isolating for a second time.
Police are patrolling, arresting, incarcerating protestors, but there is a ground movement saying their "rights" are being eroded.
We goodies stay home protecting our "rights" therefore never being heard.
Now businesses are stomping their feet at the premier, as is the Prime Minister.
Victoria had new cases down to 35 yesteday and they reckon that's nothing, however deaths still up.
They want to save commerce, I get that. How do we balance it though?
Chris
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There are plenty of people who think the majority of mankind are being conned and that the coronavirus warnings are a hoax. I'm having a hard time persuading a relative to believe the experts and not the paramedic she keeps quoting. I see the massive amazon organisation is advertising a book on the subject !
"Buy The Great British Coronavirus Hoax by Kollerstrom, Nicholas (ISBN: 9781916182158) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on ..."
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By what right do nonentities like Hancock make edicts governing how you live your life, and seemingly change these pettifogging rules on a daily basis? Where is Parliament? We no longer appear to live in a democracy.
If the government really cared about us, they'd have given over track and trace to local areas to administer by now instead of putting it into the hands of private set ups owned by people of their own ilk.
I'm not advocating attending raves or street parties, really I'm not.
Matt Hancock has been ticked off by Mr Speaker for the way the latest change was announced.
Covid-19 emergency legislation was initially for 6 months. It has to be put before Parliament soon for renewal. Govt. originally proposed that the legislation remained in force for longer but Opposition wouldn't support that idea.
A BMJ opinion blog about contact tracing.
"Best practice in contact tracing: How should an effective system be organised?"
https://blog.bmj.com/bmj/2020/09/08/best-practice-in-contact-tracing-how-should-an-effective-system-be-organised/
My raving days are past, I regret to say.
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"Staying safe ... my place"?
No one, except months ago, a Heating engineer, has crossed our doorstep.
Reliable doorstep deliveries of milk and newspapers.
Frequent (distanced, of course) chats with neighbours outside.
At start couldn't get any online grocery deliveries, so simply I had to go and do the shopping in person. OH drives out - and delivers me to Supermarket, etc., and I go round, do the shopping, load it into the car, and he drives back. Only time he really gets out, and he really misses not driving all over, as he usually does, so we use a supermarket a bit further away than our old one, and a circuitous route back unless I've bought frozen food.
Cat litter etc via Amazon or similar.
'Phone contact with assorted friends on a fairly regular rota, to keep up with each other. Letters etc to a few very elderly, as well, who really seem to appreciate this.
Not a meal out, or evening out since original lockdown started. Perhaps too much food ( and alcohol) consumed over the period.
Fallen into habit on fine evenings of having pre-prandial drink in back garden at same time as one solo neighbour, we raise our very different glasses to each other before we go into our own houses to eat. Quite a few household jobs removed from the backlog, some are years back.
Our garden has been brilliant this summer, now it going to start winter far more tidy than it usually does. Feasting on grapes and other produce at present.
Cats have appreciated - we think- having door opening / food providing staff on 24 hour duty.
Loads of time spent on pc's possibly largely trivial and wasted, but also some good sessions of research.
Hate wearing masks, but fiddled about with a few until worked out design that fitted and worked, for both of us, then settled down to making a supply for washing and wearing. Stocks of gloves also purchased for me.
Maintaining larger than usual stocks in of many household items "Just in case...", and also rather more time to spend on cleaning, so house possibly cleaner now than formerly.
As far as possible, try to keep own counsel on sillier and contradictory pronouncements of Powers That Be, keeping quietly safe, and as secure as this mad world will allow us to be.
-All in the hope of someday seeing a light at the end of the tunnel that is NOT and oncoming train.
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Listening to Lenny Henry sketch show on Radio 4. One of his characters is an OAP in care home. "We knew all about social distancing when were young - went to a social, kept your distance or you got a slap."
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Listening to Lenny Henry sketch show on Radio 4. One of his characters is an OAP in care home. "We knew all about social distancing when were young - went to a social, kept your distance or you got a slap."
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
lol - the old ones are always best.
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"Staying safe ... my place"?
No one, except months ago, a Heating engineer, has crossed our doorstep.
Reliable doorstep deliveries of milk and newspapers.
Frequent (distanced, of course) chats with neighbours outside.
At start couldn't get any online grocery deliveries, so simply I had to go and do the shopping in person. OH drives out - and delivers me to Supermarket, etc., and I go round, do the shopping, load it into the car, and he drives back. Only time he really gets out, and he really misses not driving all over, as he usually does, so we use a supermarket a bit further away than our old one, and a circuitous route back unless I've bought frozen food.
Cat litter etc via Amazon or similar.
'Phone contact with assorted friends on a fairly regular rota, to keep up with each other. Letters etc to a few very elderly, as well, who really seem to appreciate this.
Not a meal out, or evening out since original lockdown started. Perhaps too much food ( and alcohol) consumed over the period.
Fallen into habit on fine evenings of having pre-prandial drink in back garden at same time as one solo neighbour, we raise our very different glasses to each other before we go into our own houses to eat. Quite a few household jobs removed from the backlog, some are years back.
Our garden has been brilliant this summer, now it going to start winter far more tidy than it usually does. Feasting on grapes and other produce at present.
Cats have appreciated - we think- having door opening / food providing staff on 24 hour duty.
Loads of time spent on pc's possibly largely trivial and wasted, but also some good sessions of research.
Hate wearing masks, but fiddled about with a few until worked out design that fitted and worked, for both of us, then settled down to making a supply for washing and wearing. Stocks of gloves also purchased for me.
Maintaining larger than usual stocks in of many household items "Just in case...", and also rather more time to spend on cleaning, so house possibly cleaner now than formerly.
As far as possible, try to keep own counsel on sillier and contradictory pronouncements of Powers That Be, keeping quietly safe, and as secure as this mad world will allow us to be.
-All in the hope of someday seeing a light at the end of the tunnel that is NOT and oncoming train.
I found myself nodding at all your points and it came to me that I really should update my telephone "friend & relative list. Not that it would have made a difference today when I tried to do some telephone banking (our clerks are working from home) and put the phone down after an hour without having spoken to a human voice - do these large concerns realise that eighteen pence per minute x 60 minutes is a huge amount to pay without receiving a service After I put the phone down I decided to leave a message on the bank's FB page and saw that a recently posted message stated the poster was still hanging on after waiting two hours for a human voice to speak with him.
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I'm pretty much living as we were in lockdown, other than girls being back at school. Work, food, stuff in house and garden. Won't be changing any time soon.
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I've often wondered why we British (and I include Scotland etc - yes, even the smug IoM in this - seem to be so quick to obey rules and regulations, even though a lot of the time they make little sense (as illustrated by the preceding posts)?
Like most people, I started out thinking lockdown etc was for my own good as well as that of the nation and kept to the ''rules' but now I've had enough of all this chopping and changing; total government ineptitude and I openly say: who on earth is going to notice if you have 7 people in your house at Christmas or any other time? Unless we all turn 'informer' as in a true police state! (covid wardens?!?)
By what right do nonentities like Hancock make edicts governing how you live your life, and seemingly change these pettifogging rules on a daily basis? Where is Parliament? We no longer appear to live in a democracy. They saw how compliant we all were during lockdown and are now taking advantage. We are being restrained. We are being tricked and bullied. Its a slippery slope.
I know I keep banging the same drum, and will continue to do so when people just shrug their shoulders and say things like 'its for the best'. Says who?
I read posts on here and see that many are genuinely afraid of the virus but just as afraid of contravening these ridiculous 'rules'. My heart does go out to them but I also want to shake them into seeing what is really going on.
If the government really cared about us, they'd have given over track and trace to local areas to administer by now instead of putting it into the hands of private set ups owned by people of their own ilk. Even after all these months of the whole thing being a complete mess, they won't even consider it! There must be money to be made by people with names like Dido!! We are, and always will be to these people, mere 'cannon fodder'.
I'm not advocating attending raves or street parties, really I'm not. I know we have to be sensible for our own good, but neither am I happy to just obey incompetence. I don't think I'm alone in this - I can see trouble ahead if these politicians don't pull themselves together and stop trying to turn us into a dystopian 1984.
Hear hear I couldn't agree with you more.
CD
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I'm not living as if I am in lockdown in order to obey rules. I am living like this as I want to minimise the chance that I inadvertently infect someone as an asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carrier. I'm living like this to try and protect my family as I am aware of the levels of circulating virus and the potential adverse effects of it. Consequently I do not consider socialising in groups to be safe so will not be joining in.
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I agree with Pharma.
We have not really had anything like this before,not even the flu epidemic after WW1 .
It is new, mysterious ,insidious even and if those in authority seem to be floundering does it help when people break rules,advice, guidelines?
Call them what you will.
Do you seriously think the Government is taking advantage of the Covid 19
situation to underhandedly impose restrictions on us for their future benefit.?
What planet are you on, ?I bet it is flat!
I am doing all I can to minimise my own chances if contracting the disease, but also my children ,grandchildren and great grandson need consideration .
I have had many years of life ,four of my family are under thirty,one just four.
They and my children deserve to live out their lives happily.
It is selfish attitudes and behaviour that are responsible for the rise in cases
making countrywide lockdown a possibility again .
Against professional knowledge and advice only a fool would think they knew better, and baulk against such informed advice.
If it was wrong, top Doctors and Specialists would be up in arms ,and be giving different advice and asking for other means to try and control it.
I do not like being seen as a gullible fool because in the absence of great knowledge on my part I follow what people in authority who have been advised by those who do have knowledge, advise and yes even impose .
It has been a shambles ,yes, confusing changes , mixed messages I agree.
But what good does it do to flout all rules, advice etc. because someone thinks there is a sinister plot to control the populace in the future ?
That feeling comes through in your post.
I will continue to act as if we are still in lockdown , and hopefully not cause my family any worry or put them in any danger .
It is hard,very hard, but as I said in another post ,my generation grew up
obeying ,toeing the line, having a social conscience .
So many great thing cane out of that attitude, yesterday was the anniversary
of The Battle of Britain ,when 19 year olds fought in one of the most strategic engagements of WW2.
Perhaps they would have selfishly gathered ,against the rules, but in the
end -their end- no one can say they were selfish.
Include me out.!
Viktoria.
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Well said Viktoria.
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Ditto from me, Viktoria!
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CMOs of Lancashire and Bury + people in Bolton + Andy Burnham, Greater Manchester Mayor on "PM" programme this evening. CMOs: can't cope with the numbers of people wanting to be tested; Boltonians: can't get tests; Andy Burnham: 50% of contacts for track & trace (or whatever it's called) can't be traced - estimated 3,500 people who have been in contact with an infected person might be wandering around Greater Manchester.
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We have not really had anything like this before,not even the flu epidemic after WW1 .
Virology was a fairly new science then and not fully understood.
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Sorry Viktoria it's a thumb's down from me. The test and trace initiative has been more than a shambles. The localised changes conflicting, confusing and unhelpful. Let's have this conversation again in a year when we are trying to deal with the after effects of a rise in alcoholism, mental health issues, domestic abuse, sky high mortality rates due to cancer, suicide and people dealing with financial ruin. Sadly covid is here to stay so we need to learn to live with it.
CD
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That is bad, MaidenStone,I fully agree,.
I can’t agree with many points in the other post I answered, because flouting authority in these dreadful times will not ensure liberties can ‘t and won’t be withdrawn in the time after Covid 19.
If that is the insidious intention at the present time of those in authority.
We are not being conditioned to become mindless Zombies,totally obedient.
I resented the insinuation that by sticking to the rules,advice,guidelines etc we would become totally subservient and liberties taken away etc.
However mixed,contradictory and confusing what we are told is ,people are trying to contain this virus and get us through .
It is no time to to be un -cooperative .
If we can’t contain it there will be no one here to have liberties.
Viktoria.
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I think it is very difficult because we do need to keep to guidelines but on the other hand we are encouraged to work, travel, attend schools and colleges and spend on shopping and socialising.
All this with inadequate protection from the government who want our cooperation and participation.
No wonder there is confusion. It is not all selfishness and deliberate flouting of rules.
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I'm not living as if I am in lockdown in order to obey rules. I am living like this as I want to minimise the chance that I inadvertently infect someone as an asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carrier. I'm living like this to try and protect my family as I am aware of the levels of circulating virus and the potential adverse effects of it. ...
Good comment.
Remember that young lady in hospital on a forced oxygen mask having difficulty breathing on our UK news during Lockdown (who later recovered) urging us to follow the Rules.
Rules change because the situation is changing.
Some English places may have more stringent Rules Locally due to a worse situation there locally, the UK Public Health Act has always permitted Local Authority Officers to have Local Restrictions.
At the end of day Coronavirus is a highly Communicable Disease and this will be with us for months yet and we'll have to adapt and live with it around us.
Mark
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I agree Mark, in ever changing conditions I find it easier to live under the strictest guidelines.
Imagine Christmas - do our best now and maybe we will be able to see our
families then.
Otherwise stupid people will break the guidelines and this will rage on and on.
Viktoria.
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Hopefully testing will be better available and organised so that there is some semblance of order.
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Quite simply, I see no point in incurring risks I do not need to take, so I'll continue to stay at home except for shopping at the Supermarket (masked, gloved, sanitised and spaced) and keep in contact with people via p.c. or laptop. I do not NEED to go dancing / drinking/ socialising, fun though they may be. I do need to be sensible, and look after myself and those who are important to me.
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Quite simply, I see no point in incurring risks I do not need to take, so I'll continue to stay at home except for shopping at the Supermarket (masked, gloved, sanitised and spaced) and keep in contact with people via p.c. or laptop. I do not NEED to go dancing / drinking/ socialising, fun though they may be. I do need to be sensible, and look after myself and those who are important to me.
I can't say I agree with you. Every time you go to the supermarket you are taking a risk. You risk being run over by a car crossing the car park. You risk being injured in a number of ways in the supermarket. If you go by car you risk having an accident. Life is one big risk and if we don't take them, we die with regrets. That is something I can't tolerate. I need to have a life whatever that means to me. It may not be dancing/drinking/socialising but I do enjoy going out, having a meal, shopping, going for long walks, enjoying a drink occasionally. All these things seem to have been stamped out or made less enjoyable. Of course you need to be sensible but I consider I can make my own decisions regarding what risks I take and the severity of that risk.
Rishile
Rishile
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Ah, someone after my own heart..... :-X
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Quite simply, I see no point in incurring risks I do not need to take, so I'll continue to stay at home except for shopping at the Supermarket (masked, gloved, sanitised and spaced) and keep in contact with people via p.c. or laptop. I do not NEED to go dancing / drinking/ socialising, fun though they may be. I do need to be sensible, and look after myself and those who are important to me.
You are most fortunate, as many of us are on here. You have a choice.
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Anyone can chose not to socialise. Not chose not to go to work but EVERYONE can chose not to socialise.
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Living in Newcastle, I'm just reading through the new restrictions. I think that I've adhered to most of them since March. I'll miss not seeing/chatting to friends but I wholeheartedly support the new restrictions.
I've also had an e-mail that one of the new Lighthouse labs* will be built up here and will be ready by December.
* it will be the first of them
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Well there has been heavy criticism of the powers that be , more testing needed ,mixed messages etc.
On the News this evening about 6-15, French people making the same points as people here are ,ie,difficulty getting tested,delays in getting results etc.Confusing mixed messages.
So not just here, all this is so new to the whole world.
Why get difficult because things are not perfect—-what is perfect.?
It will not help one whit ,to get Bolshie and kick against authority.
What will help is to be sensible, take the best precautions you can,remember,
really remember ,” No man is an island” - what we do will affect others ,especially with regard to Covid 19, so we cannot be selfish .
I want my family to live their natural span of life , as does every parent,grandparent ,great grandparent.
I want the same for all families .
So if staying in, washing hands ,thinking all the time how our actions could have an impact on others ,we have to do all that.
Each generation has its troubles, wars,conflicts,” pulling together “was what got us through,nothing different now .
I am tempted to say “ grow up!” to those who have no intention of playing by the rules .
As yet young people do not seem to be badly affected ,that could change ,
what a great pity if them being badly affected is what eventually makes the
couldn’t care less amongst them see sense.
Viktoria.
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Quite simply, I see no point in incurring risks I do not need to take, so I'll continue to stay at home except for shopping at the Supermarket (masked, gloved, sanitised and spaced) and keep in contact with people via p.c. or laptop. I do not NEED to go dancing / drinking/ socialising, fun though they may be. I do need to be sensible, and look after myself and those who are important to me.
... I do enjoy going out, having a meal, shopping, going for long walks, enjoying a drink occasionally. All these things seem to have been stamped out or made less enjoyable. ...
Rishile
We have done all those things mentioned in Rishile's quote, socially distanced since Lockdown was released and pubs opened, continued with social distancing and Stay Alert, so avoided crowded, up and close situations where this infection will easily spread if someone is carrying it.
Mark
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My poor relative. Returned to Year 13 a few days ago after being at home for most of Year 12.
A couple of days later - quarantined - a confirmed case of Covid in ‘the bubble’. Is not in the same tuition groups and no contact with the patient.
Returned today, and another student has been confirmed so quarantined again.
Added
This person has followed all guidelines. Did not go out during lockdown etc.
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Looks like nearly the whole of Lancashire (apart from parts of Blackpool) is going to follow us in the North East. It's just been announced on Sky News.
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In our town, Gadget, we are still in our special measures so e.g. the rule of six does not apply because we are supposedly not to socialise with anyone not in our own household/bubble.
When we went to church at weekend, we had to give contact details - I don’t know if that is just local or national.
It is confusing.
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I just saw that about Lancashire, Gadget.
Also read that in Greater Manchester there are 133 schools affected and in our town one primary school has closed.
Oh dear!
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Also heard that Leeds might be following us. No social contacts outside of the household, curfews, travel restrictions, etc.
My great niece (in London) is in the same position as your relative - just started A levels and expecting a close down.
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Looks like nearly the whole of Lancashire (apart from parts of Blackpool) is going to follow us in the North East. It's just been announced on Sky News.
gasp !!!!!
I hope not as I have an appointment for eye treatment, taking water from behind new lens, at end of September in Rochdale. I am sick to death of squinting through a magnifying glass in an effort to read script. This operation was supposed to be done earlier this year but full lockdown prevented it, then three other regional lockdowns prevented three other appointments.
There are times in life when one has to rely on the intelligence of others - it's a pity that we, the many, have to rely on the foolish few for the good health of the nation.
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Just found this write up, Rena:
https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/almost-lancashire-heading-local-lockdown-18953623
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Rena,
I hope your procedure can go ahead. Perhaps it will just be social restrictions continuing.
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Quite simply, I see no point in incurring risks I do not need to take, so I'll continue to stay at home except for shopping at the Supermarket (masked, gloved, sanitised and spaced) and keep in contact with people via p.c. or laptop. I do not NEED to go dancing / drinking/ socialising, fun though they may be. I do need to be sensible, and look after myself and those who are important to me.
... I do enjoy going out, having a meal, shopping, going for long walks, enjoying a drink occasionally. All these things seem to have been stamped out or made less enjoyable. ...
Rishile
We have done all those things mentioned in Rishile's quote, socially distanced since Lockdown was released and pubs opened, continued with social distancing and Stay Alert, so avoided crowded, up and close situations where this infection will easily spread if someone is carrying it.
Mark
We have also been trying to do these things and have managed most of them but the restrictions take out all of the pleasure you may get from them. I have walked out of so many shops because I am sick of being 'told off' for not following the correct one-way system even if there is nobody else in the shop. Going for a coffee is just about impossible without someone complaining that you are doing something wrong. Pubs have no atmosphere now so there is no pleasure in trying to enjoy a 'social distanced' drink with my husband.
Rishile
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According to a recent Inquest a UK man who caught it last December and died January 2020 was confirmed to have had Coronavirus in his lungs from PM samples kept, so some may have had this Coronavirus last Winter and a few might still have antibodies.
Some of us villagers had a non-stop dry cough last Winter 2019/2020.
After coughing, the irritation after a few seconds made me want to cough again, eventually awful soreness, also chest pain, due to continuous coughing, but mine might be Bronchitis because they told me as a boy it comes back later in life.
Some people wanting a Test now may just have a seasonal cold, so Test Services are going to get pretty stretched discovering who has the virus or not.
Whether I think I've previously had it or not, I'm still happy to follow the Rules.
Mark
Added, if someone tells me I'm going the wrong way, I'm just happy to change and follow the arrows.
We might have to live with this Covid around us for months yet and I'm happy to put up with a few simple rules or being asked to follow direction.
We have eaten out weekly or more where tables are spaced and whilst aware, not sat there unduly worrying about it.
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My daughter who is not” chesty” ie subject to frequent chest infections etc
was really ill last winter.
Such pains in her left side too.
Also two neighbours ,same symptoms.
Many others too are now pretty sure they had Covid 19.
The winter before I was ill, supposed to be the Flu,despite having the flu jab.
Dreadful cough for nine weeks, and the result of that coughing was disgusting
- when eventually it came up!
No treatment ,just hot drinks,paracetamol and the one “over the counter“cough remedy that did not fight with my other medications.
Truly ill , lost so much weight etc.Tired.
But Dr. not involved as what more could he do than the advice re flu which is well known.
But taking no chances .
I can’t understand those who flout the advice ,yes it is mixed,confusing,
hard to sort out etc ,but why some should think it is a plot to turn us all into forelock pulling, grovelling ,subservient idiots is beyond me .
It is a plot, yes, to try to minimise deaths,get things back to as near”normal” as we will ever be again .
I want that ,I really want it, so no one is going to make me feel stupid because I am doing my best to do what it is thought will get us through this.
Viktoria.
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There are plenty of people who think the majority of mankind are being conned and that the coronavirus warnings are a hoax. I'm having a hard time persuading a relative to believe the experts and not the paramedic she keeps quoting. I see the massive amazon organisation is advertising a book on the subject !
"Buy The Great British Coronavirus Hoax by Kollerstrom, Nicholas (ISBN: 9781916182158) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on ..."
And now songs by a well known songwriter and singer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-54194498
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According to a recent Inquest a UK man who caught it last December and died January 2020 was confirmed to have had Coronavirus in his lungs from PM samples kept, so some may have had this Coronavirus last Winter and a few might still have antibodies.
Some of us villagers had a non-stop dry cough last Winter 2019/2020.
I too live in a small Lancashire village. Coincidentally, my son, who lives with me, had to retire to his bed for a few days last January 2020 with (manflu) what seemed like a cold with incessant coughing.
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Added, if someone tells me I'm going the wrong way, I'm just happy to change and follow the arrows.
I don't mind obeying rules but I can't won't accept enforcement of rules when they are enforced with rudeness and/or stupidity.
We went to a small tea-shop yesterday. There was a very large sign on their window in red stating that entry would be refused if a face covering was not used. As we walked in we had our face-masks in our hands and was just placing them over our face. OH's foot had just gone over the threshold of the shop and he was placing the loops over his ears. A member of staff started yelling at him that 'face-masks must be in place before you come in'. We left - I won't be spoken to like that and won't give them my money.
Rishile
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I can only repeat my earlier post. I'm not clever enough to repeat it as a quotation from earlier on this topic, but several already have done, to add their own comments.
I am fortunate in that I do not need to go out of the house, in order to work, it's a fortunate state to be in, and I recognise not everyone can manage from home. I choose to keep as safe as we can mange nowadays.
Yes, I'm bored sideways a lot of the time, but I keep managing to keep busy and even sometimes entertained, as well. I choose to try and keep safe, and that must be for me to decide.
I do however resent having my safety so compromised by those who are determined to eat out in crowded venues, drink until their inhibitions and sense of social distancing has departed, and be merry all over the place, and then come closer to me than I prefer in the supermarket car park, etc.!!
Yes, nothing is totally risk free, the roof might fall in on me as I type, but that's not really the point, is it?
Surely I can maintain my way without upsetting others? They do not have to join my way, but I'd prefer not to have what freedoms we have, further curtailed by spending at least the next couple of weeks in closer "lockdown" because of the less responsible actions of others.
We may well have already been living with the coronavirus for a lot longer than we thought at first, but that's already done, we can't alter that. The "new normal" will be different .... when we do finally reach it!
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An Idaho ‘no-masker’ pastor prayed against a mask mandate. He’s now in intensive care for covid-19
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/18/coronavirus-idaho-pastor-icu/
Karma, don't you just love it?
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It's been out a few weeks now, but I've just heard about a research paper from the Warwick Business School (currently under review prior to formal publication) which suggests that people seem to be viewing face masks as an alternative to social distancing. This accords with what I've increasingly been seeing for myself, as well as in news reports etc.
A summary of the research and article can be found at
https://www.wbs.ac.uk/news/how-face-masks-can-affect-social-distancing/
This includes a link to the paper itself.
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And a SAGE report from around 3 weeks ago says only about 20% of people who report symptoms fully self isolate
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916896/tfms-mass-testing-behavioural-considerations-s0724-200827.pdf
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!!
With people like that, what chance do we have of ever getting this subdued?
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An Idaho ‘no-masker’ pastor prayed against a mask mandate. He’s now in intensive care for covid-19
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/18/coronavirus-idaho-pastor-icu/
Karma, don't you just love it?
Considering how many people that he has been lecturing, Yes I do, but I hope none of his congregation dies because of him: ;D
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I'd politely walk from any shop if I was unhappy with the way I was greeted or unhappy with the distancing inside.
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I'm afraid we are only masking the situation.
Even with a mask on inside I still like to Socially Distance.
Today, the streets were busy even though others were trying to keep away too, so I agree with you Rishile that it isn't as nice in busy situations, even outside.
We went into a lovely old Hotel and we dined at a corner table, everyone was distanced, relaxed and the food was superb, so it made the day.
Mark
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And a SAGE report from around 3 weeks ago says only about 20% of people who report symptoms fully self isolate
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/916896/tfms-mass-testing-behavioural-considerations-s0724-200827.pdf
Some of the 80% who don't "fully self-isolate" can't afford not to go to work (e.g. zero-hours contract) and some of those who stay home can't isolate from others in the household due to lack of space.
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Just found this write up, Rena:
https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/almost-lancashire-heading-local-lockdown-18953623
Thanks Gadget,
Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but my computer had a hissy fit.
Rena
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Rena,
I hope your procedure can go ahead. Perhaps it will just be social restrictions continuing.
Thanks for your thoughts Heywood. Fingers crossed that you're right and full lockdown won't be applied again.
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My friend had a cataract removed at Rochdale a few weeks ago so you would hope that they are continuing to work now.
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Hi Chatters,
Well it's now January 2021 and not much here has changed.
I'm still growing tucker, watering/feeding stock and pets, attending the oldies gym after the xmas break(which didn't help the weight!)
We now have an app on our smart phones to track and trace and it is mandatory to scan it at all premises you go into. I forgot my phone a few times and had to go get it! Signing in is an option too.
Authorities keep the info for 3 to 4 weeks in case of an outbreak and then destroy it......i hope.
Each state here has hard borders as new cases arise, the latest 2 states going into severe lockdown when the very infectious covid appeared from UK.
Sent the cricket fans into a fit when 1 person was discovered infectious at the Test! The whole area where he sat has to isolate.
I do think this will be a way of life now so will do everything asked of me.
Hope you stay well, am thinking of you all.
😘