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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Ochsenkopff on Monday 14 September 20 00:55 BST (UK)
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HI
I have seen church records of a Hubert Buch/Bug who married a Gertrude Reichardt on the 7th August 1690 at Hallgarten Hessen Nassau his father is given as Nicholius mother ?? Christina not sure Gertrude's parents, father William/Wilhelmus and mother Anna, unfortunately part of the film was blackened out and I could not make out where Hubert came from, it was not from Hallgarten but the name started with Ober which is very common and even then I am not sure. I had even written away to Bischofliches Ordinariat Limburg but all i got back was the information that I had already given them.
Still after 20years I can not find out where Hurbert Buch/Bug came from or if his wife was indeed Christina.
Appreciate any help or advise to solve this problem for me
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Part of GERMANY
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Hesse+Nassau+Germany+Map&form=RESTAB&first=1&scenario=ImageBasicHover
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I have seen church records of a Hubert Buch/Bug
Can you post a clip of the church record? or a link to the source
Dave
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Hi Dave
My son will visit me on Wednesday night [Australian Time] and he should know what to do,I'm 84 and pretty hopeless when it comes to somethings.
Appreciate if you can make out anything from the copy of church records which was through the Latter Day Saints German Films for Hallgarten
Colin
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Hi Colin,
As Dave says, a clip of the record would be good, if your son can do that for you.
There are several trees online which mention your Hubert. I haven't linked anything, as I don't know if they are perhaps your own files.
One thing which did occur to me: Have you tried contacting the RC church in Hallgarten? It's a tiddly little town and maybe someone from the church community can help? You never know.
https://www.schroetermadonna.de/impressum.php
If your German is not up to it, let me know. I can always put a message together for you. :)
Best regards,
Karen
(in Wolfenbüttel, Lower Saxony)
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Hello Karen
Thank you for helping out yes there are a couple of sites that have accepted my Family Tree but have changed a few things but that is what it should be all about to find out where we all started from.
They both have Hubert Buch/Bug's parents as Nicholas and Christina who I am not sure if that was her name.
I do have relations in Hallgarten one being a Weingut Kurt Bug who had placed on the internet about the beginning of his distant Grandparent Hubert Bug from the 17th Century and i found him and his business on Face Book tried to connect to him but was not successful, unless the church books of the marriage of Hubert and Gertrude could been seen i doubt if Kurt Bug would also not know where they came from.
The copy of my church records is really bad may be the original is the same?
If you could possibly contact the church on my behalf and find out if their home town was listed on church records that would be great.
I did go to the internet to find the place where i could contact the church but at my age I got confused which is not surprising.
By the way I do not speak or understand German but have picked up a few words here and there using dictionaries and such.
Thank you for your help and advise.
Colin
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Hi Colin
here´s a link to Rheingau genealogy
http://www.rheingau-genealogie.de/quellen.htm
on this page (tax list from 1701) Hubert Bug is listed (nr 36)
http://www.rheingau-genealogie.de/hall1701.htm
2 adults, 1 Farm hand, 1 maid, 1 ox, 3 cows and 6 pigs, tax classification 2/16
The only places i can find that start with "Ober" are
Ober Walluf and Ober Gladbach
https://www.meyersgaz.org/place/10710034
Dave
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Crumbs. It's happened again... There's me thinking there can't be too many Hallgartens, and what do I find? Two within a few miles of each other! ::)
The one I was looking at yesterday is the one just north of the Rhein (near Hattersheim). I have just discovered a second one, about 10km south-west of Bad Kreuznach (and about 4km north of Obermoschel).
Both are in Hessen.
Hmmm...
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Hi Karen
The Hallgarten that my Hubert Bug/Buch came from was the one near Winkle ,Oestrich and Hattensheim.
Now there is a thought the town of Obermoschel being near a place named also Hallgarten could this be the place from where Hubert came from as i think I am looking for a town starting with Ober?
Colin
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Hi Dave
Thank you for that info I did have the one of how many pigs and so forth that Hubert had and also it shows there were no more Bug/Buch living there but it did show a few of Gertrude Richerdt's family.
Have seen church records of both places you mentioned but nothing there.
Appreciate yourself and Karen's Help.
Colin
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Hi Karen& Dave
Here is the copy of church records of Hubert and Gertrude's marriage 7th August 1690 at Hallgarten also entry underneath is Gertrude's Brother Gilbert Reichardt 20th November 1690.
Could you verify if it says that Christina is the mother of Hubert?
I hi lighted one of the copies hoping It would be easier to see what town they came from.
I don't expect any results because of the condition of the film but I thank you for trying.
Colin
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Hi Colin,
Did you mean to upload 2 files? I can only see one small one, with 2 lines of writing (and very difficult to read :( ).
Best regards,
Karen
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Hi Karen
My son had so much trouble with the attachments that he was continually down sizing to get some of the information through as the site would not let him put through more than 500 KG which was ridiculous and so I told him half a line was better than nothing.The end which was hi lighted was i believe the name of the town i was trying to find but as you said could not read it
Thank you but need to see actual church book from Hallgarten and that's not going to happen.
Karen you said their was two lines did the left hand side of the bottom line have the name Christina? or maybe the words on the bottom line were saying that she was the daughter of Wilhelm and Anna and i also think there is Latin and German in these entries?
Colin
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Colin
assuming you cropped off the Hubertus on the left it reads:
Hubertus, Nicolai Buch sutoris et incol(is) zu Ober..1
et Gertrudis, Wilhelmi Reichardt zu...2
Hubertus, Nicolai Buch, shoe maker and resident in Ober.......
and Gertrudis, Wilhelmi Reichardt from ….......
1 Ober Walluf or Ober Gladbach.
2 Hallgarten
Hubertus was the son of Nicolai
Gertrudis was the daughter of Wilhelmi
mothers were not often mentioned in those days
Dave
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I had even written away to Bischofliches Ordinariat Limburg but all i got back was the information that I had already given them.
Hi Colin,
The church in Hallgarten was unable to help me - their records don't go back that far.
So I contacted Limburg. The lady there that you have to pay for their research time. Did you do that when you contacted them?
One search hour costs €32 and one document copy costs €2.50. If you don't need copies, they can just send you the information that they find. The waiting time is currently about 12 weeks. Once the research has been completed, you will receive an invoice (for this they need an address) and after receipt of the money, they will send the documents.
Please let me know if you want to do this, and I'll help you with the letter.
Best regards,
Karen
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Hi Dave
Thank you for new info which i did not have and that was Nicholai being a shoemaker and also i went over my church films which i had ordered and thinking it was Obergladbach which i had seen it turns out to be Oberdiebuch, now i can turn to the two places you have given me and see if i can come up with anything.
Thanks heaps Dave.
colin
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Hi Karen
Thank you for doing that for me but way back to 24/9/1901 i received a invoice for 92/50 Deutsche Marks and i did manage to decipher a very small amount of information saying that through the church book Archives oneself he is not possible.
I think i will now have to see what help i can get from these two places that Dave has given me especially since i now now about Nicholai being a shoemaker.
Both yourself and Dave have really gone out of your way to help me, appreciate it
Will decline on your offer thank you.
Colin
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Hi Colin,
it turns out to be Oberdiebuch
I think that should be Oberdiebach. Another tiddly little place. But pretty. :) I don't know how the borders were back then, but it is just into Rheinland-Pfalz now, not Hessen.
If you need any more help, just say the word.
All the best,
Karen
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Hi Karen
Thanks for your help my only option now would be to order Church films from the Latter Day Saints on the two places that Dave had mentioned but with this COVID -19 the risk at this time for me is extremely very high.
Tried Ancestry but not a thing, Find My Past was much better for German Records but what i miss is the Latter Day Saints site FamilySearch.org.au but it is now off line i could get all these smaller German towns which was very handy and cost nothing not always reliable though.
Patients is the word i believe.
Thanks for your offer.
Colin
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Hi Colin
Genealogy.net has Hubert from Hallgarten, researched by someone from Koeln.
https://gedbas.genealogy.net/person/show/1130704880
Familienbuch from Oberdiebach 1637-1875 can be down loaded for free, but you have to register and give your credit card.
http://search-book-forum.icu/transl/?keyword=Familienbuch+von+Oberdiebach%2C+1637-1875&source=chiodebocca.ddns.info&sub=download_de_book
Regards Peonie
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Genealogy.net has Hubert from Hallgarten, researched by someone from Koeln.
https://gedbas.genealogy.net/person/show/1130704880
GEDBAS is a project where researchers can upload their GEDCOM files and contact others.
There is another contributor there (also with contact-address), who specifically names "Nikolaus BUCH" and "Christina"
as Hubert's parents. Maybe he knows more ??
http://gedbas.genealogy.net/person/show/1204200426
Regards,
Bob
ps. It's a german site; it may come up in english with an english-language operating system, but if not:
- on the left of the page, in the box "Funktionen" you can change the language to englisch "Sprache wählen", the home page will then come up again.
- enter 'Buch', 'Hubert' and 'Hallgarten' in the search box.
- the link I gave above is the third one (dob: 1662) and in the "Notes to this person", the submitter seems to have copied ('Quelle' = source) something from "Weingut Kurt Bug" !!
Maybe that was from the firm's promotional material ? ("Weingut" = Vineyard, Vinery)
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p.p.s.
@ Karen
I just noticed, on re-reading, that in my ps, I wrote
"it may come up in english with an english-language operating system,..." and then in the next line ".. change the language to englisch .."
I think we've had this conversation before, about living so long in Germany, that we write some things automatically with german spelling ;D ::)
Grüße aus Berlin,
Bob
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Hi
So many people trying to solve my problem i thank each and everyone of you.
The internet sites on those Family Trees in Germany, yes i discovered them years ago and i believe they may have been down loaded from my Family Tree which i had given to a distant cousin from another line.as i had stated before Nicholus wife was Christina but not sure, both those sites also have Christina as the wife ??
Appreciate all this help and advice and will see what i can come up with.
Regards Colin
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p.p.s.
@ Karen
I just noticed, on re-reading, that in my ps, I wrote
"it may come up in english with an english-language operating system,..." and then in the next line ".. change the language to englisch .."
I think we've had this conversation before, about living so long in Germany, that we write some things automatically with german spelling ;D ::)
Grüße aus Berlin,
Bob
Oh, yes indeed. ;D I've been here so long that I didn't even register that you had written englisch. :D
All the best,
Karen
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Colin
do you know these links on Hubert Bug
https://gedbas.genealogy.net/person/show/1204200426
In 1701 he owned 1 ox, 3 cows, 6 pigs, paid 2 guilders 16 Kreutz tax
In the 17th century the Bug winery was opposite the Hallgarten church, at the beginning of today's Taunusstrasse. According to the entry in the stock book from 1692, Hubert Bug was able to acquire the building mentioned. Originally it was the "dwelling" of the Elector of Trier and Palatinate Baron von Leyen, who owned land here, leased it out and paid a tenth of fruit, wine and hay for it, i.e. 10% of the annual income
In 1699 Hubert Bug had stored 2 pieces (2400 L) and 2 Ohm (300 L) wine. He worked vineyards in the Hasenlauf, Sand, Hendelberg, Wolfes, Hattenheimer Weg, Letten, Brückenfeld and Tieß locations.
Source: Kurt Bug winery
http://www.familie-pinkernell.de/webtrees/index.php?route=%2Fwebtrees%2Ftree%2Ftree1%2Findividual%2FI1004%2FHubert-Buch
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Hi Dave
Good to hear from you.
Thanks for all your time and info but yes i do have the entire background there,most of it came from Kurt Bug's winery advert from Hallgarten.
I believe Hubert Bug was a Baker before he took on Winery.
I tried to contact Kurt Bug through Facebook by leaving a message but no reply I'm sure he would not be able to give me the information i require on Hubert Bug's place of birth otherwise he would have mentioned it in what he had written
I also found this Weingut Bug Mill goes back to 1393 which was taken over by Wendal Bug in 1818 and apparently sold in 1970 but still retains that name.
My background is 99% English and 1% German but it was my Great Grandparents who came to Australia in 1852 who started me to do researching which i have never looked back on, still not sure if the original spelling was Bug Bugg Buch Book Nose and also i believe there are other spellings maybe this is why i cannot locate Hubert Bug or maybe he has a first name like Johann placed before Hubert ?
I am now rambling on will quit while i am ahead.
Thanks Dave.