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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: haney on Monday 14 September 20 20:35 BST (UK)

Title: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Monday 14 September 20 20:35 BST (UK)
Hi everyone
    I have a really tricky bit of research and I thought that someone maybe able to offer me some advice please.  I am researching ERNEST WILLIAM FRANCES HOPE who was born in NSW (Marrickville) in 1890, according to his marriage certificate.

I have found NO birth record for the Ernest W F HOPE here in NSW.  His mother is from family records INDIAN!!  Ernest Phillip HOPE was in the English Army and stationed in India where he met the mother of Ernest W F HOPE. 

I've tried to find shipping records c 1880's - onwards and I cannot find anything.  So frustrating.  I am still trying to find details (if they exist??) of ERNEST P HOPE his Indian wife and when they actually came to Australia, unless she died??? before coming here!!!

There was also a daughter who was killed in a house fire in Sydney, unfortunatey I cannot find a birth (no name) using just the fathers name or death for this child.



5345/1923 HOPE Ernest W F to TOWELL Sarah J (Marriage) No mother on marriage certificate

28676/1952 HOPE Ernest William F IRONWORKER CANTERBURY 62 YRS MARRICKVILLE (no parents listed)

Death and funeral notices, 2nd and 5th columns: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article18284689.

Any suggestions on gathering some more clues would be great as I'm really stuck.  I've tried subscribing to the Victoria roots web mailing list just in case the family arrived in Victoria, but, I have been unable to subscribe to the list for some unknown reason.  Thanks so much for any guidance.  Kindest regards Dianna


Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 14 September 20 21:21 BST (UK)
Link to original post: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=837286.0

Jamjar
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: cupoflife on Monday 14 September 20 23:09 BST (UK)
Wondering if this is your Ernest HOPE?
NRS-12922-1-[11/16635]-[160] | HOPE, Ernest - Date of Birth 09/06/1890
Series -NRS- 12922 Railway Personal History Cards - Employees born before 1900
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=ADLIB_RNSW114393772&vid=61SRA&search_scope=Everything&tab=default_tab&lang=en_US&context=L





Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Monday 14 September 20 23:16 BST (UK)
Hi Yes that is possibly him but not much else to go on.  No birth certificate in Australia that I could find so far, unless he was not born in Australia.  Thank you
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Monday 14 September 20 23:18 BST (UK)
Hi Again also he seems to have attempted to join up in WW1 but was rejected.  That could have been really helpful if he had of joined as there would have been some very useful information.  Oh well!!  Thanks Dianna
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: wivenhoe on Monday 14 September 20 23:27 BST (UK)

Can you please list all the information on this certificate -

5345/1923 HOPE  Ernest W F  marr.  TOWELL  Sarah J  @ Rockdale
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 01:15 BST (UK)
YES:- CERT 05345, 1 MAY 1923.  ST PAUL'S CHURCH, KOGARAH, KOGARAH MUNICIPALITY, CHURCH OF ENGLAND.
GROOM:- ERNEST WILLIAM FRANCIS HOPE, BACHELOR, BIRTHPLACE MARRICKVILLE, SYDNEY NSW
OCCUPATION: METAL WORKER AGE 32 USUAL RESIDENCE BEXLEY, SYDNEY NSW
FATHER:- ERNEST PHILLIP HOPE (DECEASED)
MOTHER:- NOT LISTED  OCCUPATION OF FATHER LABOURER

BRIDE SARAH JANE TOWELL, SPINSTER, BIRTHPLACE HURSTVILLE, NSW OCCUPATION DOMESTIC DUTIES AGE 30 USUAL RESIDENCE BEXLEY, NSW
FATHER: THOMAS TOWELL (DECEASED) STEP MOTHER LISTED FOR MOTHER AS ELLEN RYAN.  HER MOTHER IS ACTUAL SUSAN SPARKES.
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 01:16 BST (UK)
BOTH ERNEST HOPE AND SARAH JANE TOWELL HAD CHILDREN WITH OTHER PARTNERS BEFORE THEY MARRIED EACH OTHER.
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 15 September 20 01:26 BST (UK)

What names do you see for witnesses?


Can you give more details here please....names and birthplace of other children -

"..both Ernest HOPE and Sarah Jane TOWELL had children with other partners before they married each other.."

BDM NSW
26639/1913  HOPE  Daphne T parents  Ernest W /  Adeline R @ Sydney

42046/1915  HOPE  Reginald  P parents Ernest W / Adeline R  @ Redfern


It is difficult to read text which is all upper case. For family history it is useful to use upper case for family names. Otherwise, it is better to use lower case.

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 01:55 BST (UK)
Sorry forgot the caps lock.  The witness's are J. Gannon and F. Lehmann. 

for Reginald Percival HOPE born 22 September 1915, 29 George Street Redfern.  Illegitimate on certificate.  Father Ernest William HOPE Oil Packer as occupation aged 26, born in Sydney NSW

Mother is Adeline Formerly Lowe, now Bow age 25 born in South Australia.  Informant Ernest Hope, Adeline Bow, father and Mother George Street Redfern.  Registered  9 Oct 1915 in Redfern.

I don't have the birth record of Daphne.  Adeline was married to a James BOW I think his name was, they did marry in Victoria.  He was gaoled for bigamy about 1911.  He and Adeline where living in Sydney.  He joined up in WW1 and on his home service records say's he was single in 1918

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: majm on Tuesday 15 September 20 04:51 BST (UK)
Sands Alphabetical Sydney 1890 Directory.

Hope, A.F. Barnsbury Grove, Marrickville.

That Grove was from Wardell Road to Fairfoul St.

JM
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 15 September 20 05:28 BST (UK)
His mother is from family records INDIAN!!  Ernest Phillip HOPE was in the English Army and stationed in India where he met the mother of Ernest W F HOPE. 

Are the 'family records' actual records or just hearsay?  Does nobody have a photograph of Ernest?

Debra  :)

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 06:05 BST (UK)
Hi Thanks for the information on the Sands Directory.  I will have to follow up on that now.  Maybe the name has been wrong all the time and the father possibly is A F HOPE (or relative) Seems like a coincidence a Hope in Marrickville the same year Ernest was born.

Every little bit of information helps.

I'm working on just family hearsay at the moment BUT the Indian blood is real as a DNA test has been done on the daughter of Ernest Hope and Sarah J. Towell Hope and this lady is 25% Indian.  That is what is keeping me going.  Thanks so much.  Regards Dianna
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 06:06 BST (UK)
Hi Again.  I will hunt around for a photo of Ernest as well.  When I find more family members!!  If possible.  Kindest regards Dianna
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 15 September 20 08:07 BST (UK)
Hi Again also he seems to have attempted to join up in WW1 but was rejected.  That could have been really helpful if he had of joined as there would have been some very useful information.  Oh well!!  Thanks Dianna

What is the word struck through where the enlistee signs his name on the digitised record for this?
It is between the initials E W and the word HOPE

Sue
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: majm on Tuesday 15 September 20 08:18 BST (UK)
I have even tried to figure that out on the reverse of that page, but still cannot decipher enough letters to hazard anything but a guess.  I think the first letter MAY  chance to be a capital C ... and there may be a chance of the name being Cannon or Carson ... but I could be on the totally wrong tack.

JM
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 15 September 20 08:36 BST (UK)

"..Indian blood is real as a DNA test has been done on the daughter of Ernest Hope and Sarah J. Towell Hope and this lady is 25% Indian."

What was the other 75%..?

If there is Indian ancestry for a child of Ernest HOPE and Sarah TOWELL etc.....could this be from maternal (Sarah's) family?

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 08:44 BST (UK)
Hi Sue I have not been able to decipher that other name as yet.  Will do some more research on that and take another look!  Could be a clue! Thanks
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 08:45 BST (UK)
HI wivenhoe.  The other 75% is Anglo-Irish, way back as far as I could go.  Thank you Dianna
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 09:02 BST (UK)
Hi again Sue looks like CAMMON/CARMON???? Something like that, now I'm curious!!!  I tried to attach the WW1 record here but can't work out how to do it!!  Dianna
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 15 September 20 09:11 BST (UK)

At reply #9 ....marriage, HOPE / TOWELL....witness is J GANNON.
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Tuesday 15 September 20 09:25 BST (UK)
HI Sue that is interesting.  Good you picked that up!!  Connection, who knows!!  Hmm more thinking to do now.  LOL.  Thanks

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 15 September 20 09:31 BST (UK)
The enlistee was a storeman.
He gave the address of living as 2 Botany Street Redfern.
This was the premises of a car parts sales/ engineer I think.

Perhaps he was a store man there. Someone may be able to give more information about the address.
The railway records given previously also show store man as occ.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15809315

You need to track J. GANNON, witness as given by wivenhoe

Sue
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 15 September 20 14:32 BST (UK)
Reginald Percival HOPE born 22 September 1915, 29 George Street Redfern.  Illegitimate on certificate.  Father Ernest William HOPE Oil Packer as occupation aged 26, born in Sydney NSW

Mother is Adeline Formerly Lowe, now Bow age 25 born in South Australia.  Informant Ernest Hope, Adeline Bow, father and Mother George Street Redfern.  Registered  9 Oct 1915 in Redfern.


Did you know that Adeline's son Leonard Ernest BOW born Nov 1910 was not actually a BOW?

KING, Leonard Ernt Phil
Mother: Adeline Ruth WATT
Father: Ernt
CARLTON
1911
1423/1911

WATT was the maiden surname of Adeline's mother and considering the child's names I would say that your Ernest was the father, moonlighting as Ernest KING.

That makes this account of Adeline's husband's bigamy case very interesting reading.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/64439738

Copy and paste this whole link to your browser:

https://stors.tas.gov.au/POL708-1-2$init=POL708-1-2p40jpg

Debra  :)
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 15 September 20 15:07 BST (UK)
I don't think that Adeline's husband was a BOW either.  He may have been born in 1884 as James Richard DOLLARD in South Australia to (Mary) Ellen McNEIL who then later married James Robert BOW.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Wednesday 16 September 20 05:42 BST (UK)
Hi Debra I'm trying to wrap my head around this whole thing now!!! So you think that ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE is an alias for ERNEST KING.  It states in the newspaper article that KING and BOW are brothers, is this Ernie KING, telling lies to Violet OR are they perhaps 1/2 brothers OR more Aliases involved here.

It's turning into a book or mystery novel now.
1907 James Richard Alexander BOW born to Adeline and James

1908 Adeline Ruth LOWE marries James Richard BOW
 
1911 James Richard BOW in Gaol for Bigamy.

Did Ernie and Adeline have an affair while James R. BOW was in Gaol???

1911 LEONARD ERNEST PHILLIP KING born in Victoria to Ernie and Adeline

1913 DAPHNE THERESA HOPE/BOW/LOWE born in Sydney to Ernest William HOPE and Adeline BOW/LOWE

1915  REGINALD PERCY HOPE etc born in Sydney to Ernest and Adeline # NOTE say's father born SYDNEY on this birth certificate! September 1915

1915 JAMES RICHARD BOW joins WW1 29/10/1915 N OF KIN Ruth Adeline BOW. Sydney

1916 ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE tried to join WW1 and rejected Sydney.

1918 On one of James Richard BOW'S Home Service records for WW1 he states his mother Ellen is his next of kin and that he is SINGLE.  So split up from Adeline!

1923 ERNEST WILLIAM FRANCIS HOPE marries SARAH J TOWELL.  His father's name is ERNEST PHILLIP HOPE (or is it????).  He dies in Sydney in 1952  Going Dizzy trying to work this out.  Extremely interesting. 

So did all three of them come up to Sydney together??  Were Ernest KING/HOPE and JAMES RICHARD BOW brothers??? Very curious how this son LEONARD has the middle names ERNEST PHILLIP???  Maybe I will be able to find a birth and relevant details by looking for ERNEST KING/ERNEST WILLIAM KING.  Thanks so much still working on the timeline.  Regards Dianna
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: wivenhoe on Wednesday 16 September 20 08:55 BST (UK)
I think that the marriage of James Richard BOW and Adeline Ruth LOWE did not last very long, and I wonder if James Richard Alexander BOW, born 1907, Melbourne, was really the only child he had with Adeline Ruth.

Ancestry Victoria Police Gazette  Apr 8 1909
James Richard BOW is inquired for by his wife, Adeline Ruth BOW, 52 Kerr-Street Fitzroy, of Fitzroy, on the  3rd ult.

BDM VIC
13374/1907 BOW James Richard Alex parents Ruth WATT / James Richard
born Port Melbourne

13374/1907 LOWE Jas Richd Alexr parents Ruth WATT / -
born Port Melbourne

13374/1907 WATT Jas Richd Alex  parents Ruth WATT / -
born Port Melbourne

17559/1909 BOW Doreen Ruth parents Adeline Ruth LOWE / James Richard
born CARLTON

There are several articles in Tasmania newspapers on the matter of the marriage of
James Richard BOW, married Adeline Ruth LOWE Oct 28 1908 Melbourne...and (bigamously)
Violet Leith ROBINS married   Jan 4 1911, Burnie Tasmania.
James was back in Melbourne to be at home when Police Officer called.

North Western Advocate and Emu Bay Times 7 Mar 1911 p4
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/64447379?

* Ruth LOWE, who entered the witness box with a little boy about 4 years of ago, said she resided at 294 Lygon street, Carlton.

* Witness (Ruth LOWE) came over to Burnie on January 18, and met the accused on arrival,
when asked her what she came for, and she replied 'For you!' Shortly after she asked him whether it was' true that ho had married Violet Robbins, and he replied 'Yes!' Up to the time of Bow's arrest he had been living in the same house with witness and her daughter (accused's wife)

Examiner 11 Apr 1911 p3
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50470198?

* (James Richard BOW) was with Ditchams Travelling show when he came to Burnie.

* James Richard BOW told Violet that he was Ernie KING's brother, and that the latter was in Hobart. Witness wrote to King, and received a reply, telling her not to go out walking with BOWE, as he was a married man and had a child.

I suspect that the quality of proof reading and reporting is not great, I think the substance of the story indicates that in Burnie, January 1911, there is someone who knows James Richard BOWE, knows that he is married, knows where to contact his family in Melbourne.

James Richard BOW is described as having one child. Ruth LOWE brings a four year old boy with her from Melbourne. He is not identified as being her grandson, or son of James Richard BOW. You might reasonably suppose that this boy is James Richard Alexander BOW, born 1907.

Who is father of Doreen Ruth BOW born 1909?

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 16 September 20 14:10 BST (UK)
Even though the person of interest in this query is Ernest HOPE, I do think that the BOW situation should also be sorted just to get a better idea of the relationships and geography when Ernest met Adeline.  I have no idea if he is 'Ernie KING' and also the father of Leonard but that birth cert will give information about the father - age, occupation and place of birth.  I would also like to know who the informant was, the father or the mother.

This might seem a bit  :o  but I will also float the idea that the mother of James Richard born in 1907 was actually Adeline's mother Ruth LOWE formerly WATT.  She was born in SA in 1868 so still only 39 years old and the way the birth is indexed does suggest that she is the mother rather than Adeline.  The one child of James and Adeline referred to in the court case would be Doreen.

BDM VIC
13374/1907 BOW James Richard Alex parents Ruth WATT / James Richard
born Port Melbourne

13374/1907 LOWE Jas Richd Alexr parents Ruth WATT / -
born Port Melbourne

13374/1907 WATT Jas Richd Alex  parents Ruth WATT / -
born Port Melbourne

* Ruth LOWE, who entered the witness box with a little boy about 4 years of ago, said she resided at 294 Lygon street, Carlton.

Let's have a look at electoral rolls, bearing in mind that Adeline was born in 1891 so cannot be 'Ruth' in 1909.

1909
52 Kerr Street, Fitzroy, Vic
James Richard BOW, Pastrycook
Ruth BOW

1912/1913/1914
19 David Street, Carlton, Vic
James Richard BOW, Actor
Ruth BOW

1913
541 Crown Street, Surrey Hills, NSW
James Richard BOW, Actor
Ruth BOW

In 1918 Ruth LOWE remarried to William Bruce DUNCAN in Sydney.  She claimed to be 38 years old (she was 50) and he was 25.  Adeline Ruth BOW and Maud BOW were witnesses.

I think that Ruth went to Tas to get him for herself as Adeline had already moved on.

Debra  :)


Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 17 September 20 07:49 BST (UK)

Debra....I think that the scenario you are suggesting is very possible.  Also, without a birth registration to see for Doreen, it is possible that James Richard BOW was married off to a pregnant Adeline.

James Richard BOW would seem to be rather gullible, easily lead. Was Violet Leith ROBBINS also a pregnant girl whose mother wants her married.....would explain the suggestion that James was intoxicated. All speculation, of course.

I think that Ruth LOWE's interest to get to Burnie as soon as possible is to work with James on their statements later in court.

The bigamy trial would be widely reported in the papers....the domestic partnership arrangements at 294 Lygon St would also be fodder for the press if known.

So who is Ernie KING a brother to?  At 1911 Ernie is "in Hobart". I do not think he lives there. The ROBBINS know him because he lives in the Burnie area.
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Thursday 17 September 20 09:16 BST (UK)
HI wivenhoe/Debra
I've been working on this family all day and collecting every little bit of data I can.  I will post it here a bit later!  I am looking at available photos for the children of Ernest W. HOPE as he is supposed to be 1/2?? INDIAN.  So looking for anything that may suggest this inherited in his children. 

So is this ERNIE KING a native of Tasmania!!  How could he be James R BOW'S brother??  Cant get that connection.

Also thank you for the tip on Ruth's marriage to William Bruce DUNCAN.  I found Ruth Duncan's funeral notice.  Jan 27 1923.  Leaving from the residence of her daughter Mrs A. WALTON.  So Adeline (LOWE/BOW) Walton is with her new partner in 1923, the same year that Ernest William F. HOPE marries Sarah J. Towell.

A bit more to put together but it seems to be making a little more sense (sort of).

So 5 kids for Adeline LOWE/BOW ie 2 with James Richard BOW, 2 with Ernest William HOPE in Sydney and the other one Leonard Ernest Phillip KING, only used the name BOW through his life.  Maybe never knew the truth.  He and his wife Frances lost three children as Infants in the 1930's really sad, all buried together in Botany Cemetery.

I'm just tracking down now any information for the death/funeral of Doreen BOW-WALTON who died in Nowra NSW in 1989, I couldn't find anything on Ryerson for her.  I will have to contact the Nowra library I think see if they can help.

Doreens husband Leslie Russell seems to have died in 2004, 18th of Feb.  Published in the South Coast Register 07 JULY 2004.  Hmmm. 

So I guess photos of the children of Ernest William are what I'm looking for.  I have one of REGINALD PERCY and one of his daughter.

Just need one of Daphne Theresa HOPE-ROBINSON who died 2009, children Mervyn, Barry and Wayne (all deceased).  So the hunt continues should have my timeline completed soon and see where to go from there.

I need as well some more information on ERNIE KING, where did he end up?? Is he ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE.  A photo of Ernie KING would be handy as he would be 1/2 Indian if he is in fact ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE.  Wow what a story.  Thanks so much to everyone.  Regards Dianna
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 17 September 20 09:47 BST (UK)
I see no evidence that Ernest KING and James Richard BOW were brothers.

There was a couple who were resident a Broken Hill , James Robert BOW and Mary Ellen BOW ( nee McNEIL) who had a number of children there as well as some in South Australia. I do not yet see a birth for James Richard but a death in NSW would suggest he is  child of this couple.

BOW  James Richard
Reg 10551/Yr 1937
Father JAMES HEBERT
mother MARY ELLEN
At NEWTOWN, NSW

He was in Broken Hill lin 1913 and in trouble.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/80072599

On his two WW1 attestations, young James states born South Australia.

He had gone back to his home with mother Mary Ellen by his 1918 (2nd ) attestation details.

I don't see a connection to Ernest KING in this.

Sue
 

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: Jennaya on Thursday 17 September 20 11:58 BST (UK)
I was wondering why young Violet would approach a man she didn't know and ask was if he was Ernest. When James replied that he was his brother, I thought perhaps Ernest and James were the same person using an alias.
However, a check of their  WWI records showed a height and age difference. Although the description of  James  is interesting: Hair, black: eyes, brown: complexion, dark. I wonder if that's why Violet asked the question. Perhaps they have a similar heritage. Maybe the comment "he's my brother" related to heritage, not actual blood brothers.
This is pure conjecture, of course.
It might be worth doing more checking of James family to see what can be discovered.

Regards
Jennaya
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 17 September 20 13:12 BST (UK)
There was a couple who were resident a Broken Hill , James Robert BOW and Mary Ellen BOW ( nee McNEIL) who had a number of children there as well as some in South Australia. I do not yet see a birth for James Richard but a death in NSW would suggest he is  child of this couple.

BOW  James Richard
Reg 10551/Yr 1937
Father JAMES HEBERT
mother MARY ELLEN
At NEWTOWN, NSW

My guess at who James Richard was.

I don't think that Adeline's husband was a BOW either.  He may have been born in 1884 as James Richard DOLLARD in South Australia to (Mary) Ellen McNEIL who then later married James Robert BOW.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 17 September 20 13:29 BST (UK)
So 5 kids for Adeline LOWE/BOW ie 2 with James Richard BOW, 2 with Ernest William HOPE in Sydney and the other one Leonard Ernest Phillip KING, only used the name BOW through his life. 

She also had at least one child with Robert Edward WALTON - Edward Arthur who died in 1956.

It also looks like Ruth's daughter Rachael Maud/Maud Rachael married James Richard's brother (William) Alexander BOW and she is the one who was the witness at Ruth's marriage in 1918.

In 1918 Ruth LOWE remarried to William Bruce DUNCAN in Sydney.  She claimed to be 38 years old (she was 50) and he was 25.  Adeline Ruth BOW and Maud BOW were witnesses.

It is certainly a tangled web.

Debra  :)

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: rosball on Thursday 17 September 20 13:49 BST (UK)
Edward WALTON's death  notice

Ros

Title: Re: ERNEST(PHILLIP?) HOPE
Post by: haney on Thursday 17 September 20 21:10 BST (UK)
HI Thanks to everyone for their replies and help.  Rosball and Dundee thank you for finding the 'Extra" child to add to the list Edward Arthur Walton.  Now have to chase up the "unkown" siblings Michael and Annie. 

Also Maude R. LOWE was married to William Alexander BOW, he was in WW1 as well AND living at 588 Crown St Surry Hills NSW.  Same address as his brother James Richard and wife Adeline Ruth LOWE.

So two sisters marrying two brothers.  Still trying to figure out the movements of ADELINE RUTH LOWE/BOW between being with James BOW and hooking up with ERNEST HOPE. So many mysteries here. 

It may be that James Richard BOW listed Adeline R. BOW as next of kin, even though she was not living with him!!  Just a thought, I have seen this before with my own Grandmother.

Maybe the death certificate of Adeline R WALTON may prove interesting?? What a story and all just to find the origins of ERNEST WILLIAM HOPE.  Kindest regards Dianna