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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: SVN on Tuesday 15 September 20 20:30 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Tuesday 15 September 20 20:30 BST (UK)
Hello - I am looking for anyone who is tied to a Thomas & Margaret McAulay (nee Brown) of Glasgow - Calton or Lanark. I would love to be able to learn more specific information on either of them prior to their coming to Scotland (it seems that both came from Northern Ireland, but I have no record to prove this - only the fact that they indicate their place of birth as Ireland on the 1861 census). I know of a different Thomas & Margaret in the area, but their children are different. My Thomas & Margaret's children are as follows: Elizabeth, Rebecca, William, & Margaret. Of these, I can only confirm the birth date of Elizabeth McAulay, who later married Joseph Murphy (b. 1837, probably in Armagh; d. 1905 in Dennistoun). As of the 1861 census, they are living in Glasgow, Calton.

I have also located a record for the Christening of a Margaret McAulay on April 6, 1855 at the Great Hamilton Street Reformed Church, to parents Thomas and Margaret McAulay, but I'm not sure this is the correct Margaret, as her age is off by 6 years from the census, and, it is in a Protestant church, when previous marriages were in the Catholic church. Any help would be appreciated!

 
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 15 September 20 21:04 BST (UK)
Have you got the death certificates for Thomas and Margaret as Scottish certificates have lots of family information on them?
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 15 September 20 21:16 BST (UK)
Just putting the 1861 census (I hope)
Thomas Mcaulay   52  shoe maker  Ireland
Margaret Mcaulay   50   Ireland
William Mcaulay   18   Ireland
Margaret Mcaulay   13  Glasgow
Rebeca McKillops   28  daughter Ireland
Margaret McKillops   2  grand daughter Glasgow
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 15 September 20 21:35 BST (UK)
Is this Thomas in 1851 (from F M P), and have you looked at the original on scotlandspeople?

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC%2F1851%2F0020169333

Thomas  McAuley
Head  Married  Age   47  Birth year   1804  born  Ireland
Shoe Maker Fanely Visiting
living at 24  Broad Street, Glasgow  (Calton)  Lanarkshire
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Tuesday 15 September 20 21:46 BST (UK)
Hiya! Thanx for replying! I do have the death cert for Thomas, but not for Margaret. In fact, when I tried to find the next census for her (it would have been after Thomas died) I'm not sure it is even her. There is one where she is a lodger. I am guessing that she would have gone to live with one of the children, no? So I need her death record for sure. No hits on Scotland's people.

The census list you came up with is my family. That is the one I have.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Tuesday 15 September 20 21:50 BST (UK)
I need to check out the other reference to Thomas that you posted. What kind of record was that - a census, but before he was married??? That could very well likely be him, given his occupation.

Since I know the names of Thomas' parents, how would you suggest I get family information from NI? My only hope is to find someone on here who is somehow related to me/to them, and has a decent paper trail from their own family records. It's so frustrating that many of our folk were in Northern Ireland and I don't know if they started in Scotland, migrated to NI, and stayed. Were native Northern Irish. Or, were Scots who went to NI, then came back home.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 15 September 20 22:01 BST (UK)
Sorry, just found this for 1871, but daughter Margaret wrong age:

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1871Scotland&indiv=try&h=2023044

William Mcaulay   28  head carpet designer  Ireland
Catherine Mcaulay   28  wife
Thomas Mcaulay   5
William Mcaulay   1
Margaret Mcaulay   58  mother  Ireland
Margaret Mcaulay   30  sister  Glasgow
Patrick Mcaulay   15  boarder  Glasgow
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 15 September 20 22:09 BST (UK)
There are 2 deaths for a Margaret McAulay between 1871 and 1881 in Glasgow (neither in High Church). If the age at 1871 census is followed, the Govan death is more likely.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Tuesday 15 September 20 22:10 BST (UK)
At first glance, that was exciting, but you're right - I don't think that is my family. But I'm going to try to track down original on SP for the first link you sent, as well as what you found for the deaths.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Tuesday 15 September 20 22:11 BST (UK)
Although...age at 1871 census is most likely not my Margaret. The 1861 census is the correct one.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Tuesday 15 September 20 22:21 BST (UK)
Located the 1851 record - a few thoughts. While occupation matches, as well as birth place, the age of off by about 6 years. It also says "family visiting" - so he was visiting family in Scotland and left the family back in NI? Hmm. Hard call - a 50-50 shot.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 15 September 20 22:59 BST (UK)
If Margaret the daughter born Glasgow in about 1848 according 1861 census, then the whole family should be in Scotland in 1851.  I wondered who else was on that 1851 census entry, and whether it was worth following it up. 
Also, that 1871 census I found, perhaps Margaret, the daughter's age has been incorrectly transcribed there.  William has the same profession in 1861 and 1871.

There are always the problems about transcription when one cannot see the record (without paying).

Which person are you descended from?
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 15 September 20 23:08 BST (UK)
If William, 1871, is correct, here he is in 1891, still a carpet designer, living in Dennistoun:
William B McAulay   46  Ireland
Catherine McAulay   48  Kilmarnock
William B McAulay   21
Margaret B McAulay   17
Mary H McAulay   11
John G McAulay   8
Catherine P McAulay   5

and 1901, same place, does not say if married or widowed:
William B Mcaulay   56
William B Mcaulay   31
John G Mcaulay   18
Cath R Mcaulay   15

Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Tuesday 15 September 20 23:16 BST (UK)
William Brown Macaulay dies in Dennistoun in 1902.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Tuesday 15 September 20 23:34 BST (UK)
I think the 1871 census might actually be right. You are correct in saying that ages are a bit off, but I'm finding that with everything. I think thta is her, but then she moved from High Church to elsewhere before she died.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Wednesday 16 September 20 00:19 BST (UK)
And then that would account for Thomas' son. It seems like a proper match - I mean, you expect there to be some inconsistencies given that none of the older records are perfect, right? I hope we're right - so many Margarets!
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Wednesday 16 September 20 00:21 BST (UK)
Still trying to track down Margaret (wife of Thomas). Figuring her death is after 1869, given that she is still alive at the time of Thomas' death.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 16 September 20 08:33 BST (UK)
There are the 2 deaths that I said earlier, between 1871 and 1881 in Glasgow area, and then another one in 1884.  (If we have missed her on 1881 census)
2 of them are in Dennistoun and one in Govan.  2 have birth years of around 1809/1811 and one around 1813/1814. 
Up to you.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 16 September 20 08:48 BST (UK)
Just putting 1881 for William and family,
Wm B Mcaulay   38  Ireland   designer
Catherine Mcaulay   38   Kilmarnock
Thos Mcaulay   15
Wm B Mcaulay   11
Agnes M Mcaulay   9
Margaret B Mcaulay   7
Mary H Mcaulay   1
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Wednesday 16 September 20 20:02 BST (UK)
I totally agree with you about the inconsistencies. Margaret (Thomas McAulay's wife) is of a different age based on every document I found. It's crazy, but such is the world of record keeping. You had asked which ancestor I was descended from - I don't believe I answered that, since I actually didn't see that question until now. Thomas and Margaret (nee Brown) McAulay had another daughter named Elizabeth. She married a Joseph Murphy. That is my line.

I spent many hours sorting out the children last night. But today, I need to find that death record on Thomas's wife. I think we have the general dates right. Keep your fingers crossed! The sad part in all of this, however, is that finding that record will give me what I was looking for (hopefully) - Margaret's parents' names. But that will only bring me back to Northern Ireland, as with Thomas McAulay, and it will be a dead end given that there are almost no records left for that period in time.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Wednesday 16 September 20 21:57 BST (UK)
 :D Found her death record!!! She died in Bridgeton in 1873. But her her age was 54!!! Talk about a swing in dates - wow. Cheers for your help (and interest). Are you tied to my line? If so, please feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 16 September 20 23:07 BST (UK)
So she was 50 in 1861, 58 in 1871, and 54 at death in 1873.   Would you have found her (in England) with a surname Smith - unlikely.

No, not related at all, and am no good on Irish records.

If you have a specific query on Irish records you could try the Irish board (with a link to this query if you want.)

Who were her parents?
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Wednesday 16 September 20 23:18 BST (UK)
William Brown and Rebecca Armour. How would I find the Irish Board???

Glad you are good at the English records - you were a big help with the earlier censuses. A big pat on the back for that!  :  )
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Wednesday 16 September 20 23:55 BST (UK)
BTW, as it turns out, "Armour" is not very common in Northern Ireland. It is almost exclusively English/Scottish (although there were some, but not many, families who migrated to NI). Now I'm wondering if Margaret Brown's mum/family was actually English/Scottish? Hmm. Makes things a bit interesting.
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Thursday 17 September 20 00:08 BST (UK)
You started this in Beginners, and it got moved to Lanarkshire.

Anyway, click on FORUM at top, and then scroll down to Ireland.

(It was not English records, it was Scottish, and I did a family tree for my grandson who has a Scottish grandmother and an Isle of Man grandfather, so have looked at a few records over the years.)
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Thursday 17 September 20 00:23 BST (UK)
Well, you did good!
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 17 September 20 10:42 BST (UK)
BTW, as it turns out, "Armour" is not very common in Northern Ireland.

In the 1911 Irish census, there were over 350 people with the surname Armour in counties Antrim and Down.

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01pvy/
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01pvz/

KG

Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: chempat on Thursday 17 September 20 10:50 BST (UK)
There were about 3500 people called Murphy and 5000 people called Brown in those 2 areas, so it is not common in comparison, surely?
Title: Re: Looking for ancestors of McAulays from Calton Glasgow area
Post by: SVN on Thursday 17 September 20 16:55 BST (UK)
Interesting - most of the things that I read about the surname stated that it almost exclusively English or Scottish (which doesn't, of course, mean that an English or Scottish "Armour" couldn't be living in NI), and that there were not that many living in NI. I'm going a century back from the time you're talking about, so I'm sure there were fewer then. But maybe more than I thought?