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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: brigidmac on Monday 21 September 20 15:52 BST (UK)
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We knew a lot about the 4 daughters of George SMITH fishmonger of Broughton road Birkenhead and have photos of them their spouses and children .
But very little about his only son Edgar SMITH
Id like to find a picture of him or his shop
Now have some DNA matches and have worked out his descendants
My first question would be why did he not follow his fathers trade but his own son George Edgar SMITH and grandson Edgar Leonard SMITH followed his trade .
1871 Edgar Age 19 he was a butchers apprentice
He married marharet CAIN
Addresses were Price street 1878+ elexly st 1881
40 Argyll st from 1891
By 1901 son(george) edgar was also a butcher age 17
In 1939 grandson Edgar leonard was in meat transport business I think Letchworth road
Descendants dont have photos of shops or of Edgar the elder ..
There were some divorces remarriage s and scandals along the way .
.and some vegetarians
But I would be very grateful if anyone has extra information
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Do you know for sure they owned shops? They could have just been employees?
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No I dont know if they owned the shops but even a photo of workplace would be nice .
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You would need to know where they worked
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I.ll see if I can find a trade directory site
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The 1894 Kelly's Directory gives
Edgar Smith
Publication Year:1894
Address: 40 Argyle street south, Tranmere
Residence Place: Birkenhead, Lancashire, England
Occupation:Butcher
There is also a George Smith Butcher at 10 Conway Street.
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40 Argyll Street South looks residential: https://tinyurl.com/y46xr44r
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Hi,
The 1901 census shows the occupations of both Edgar(s) as Butcher (Slaughterhouse) and identifies them as worker rather than employers.
Alan
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HI,
A guess for their place of work would be The Birkenhead Abattoir, occupied by Tranmere Meat Co which was opened in 1886 and was sited quite near where the family lived.
See culturegrid.org.uk for an external picture of the building.
Alan
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Thank you
Yes the Argyll street address was home address given on several documents..i did wonder if it could have been a home as well as a shop .but slaughterman does sound more likely to be someone working in an abbatoire than a shop.
Thanks for finding the Kelly directory entry I couldn't get on the site .
I think the Conway street George Smith must have been a different family .
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heres a list of the people in dynasty im looking at Edgar Smith the elder had sisters who married tripe butcher brothers GAMBLE who set up big tripe business in Coventy
Maybe his daughters also stayed in the business
George Edgar SMITH b 1884 was his son.
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Edgar leonard smith b 1910 Edgars grandson.
Adress Agar.street liverpool.
Was a butchers.assistant on.his first marriage 1931
(Father george edgar noted as deceased)
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There is a war baby adoptee whose dna matches show to be descended from
george edgar smith or one of his sons (legitimate or not )
Her birth certificate says father cattle insector but doesnt give fathers name (gives different )
Edgar leonard smith b 1910 was a slaughter man in 1939
As was Stanley Smith in 1934 pn his marriahge cant find in 1939
They may have had a half brother Patrick John SMITH
b 1919 liverpool from 1 ancestry tree but not found other confirmation
Is there any way of finding out if any of these 3 were cattle inspectors
What would that involve
And would there be a connection.to smethwick Birmingham wgere her birth.mother lived and worked
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See this snip for a cattle inspector to give you an idea of what the occupation was. I think they were also involved in milk inspection.
You can search the 1939 register by occupation but the likelihood is that most would just be shown as civil servant Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries or something similar.
This one, Ernest Misdall, had moved to Flint by September 1939.
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Thanks Shaun
I couldnt find the other sons in 1939 of course they could have been in the army
I will look for Sydney s wife
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Another question or two.
Were butchers essential workers in world war two so exempt from military service ?
How far would a meat transporter travel to deliver meat ..is Birkenhead to Birmingham feasible ?
My cousin who worked in wholseale meat trade with his father (before becoming vegetarian ) in 1980s
says cattle inspectors were like vets checking
the cows were healthy
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Because she has DNA matches to his mother (George SMITH second wife )sarah POWELL s family and her mother Hannah LEEMING
I now have names of two of john Patrick SMITH s sons ( 4 other siblings may be living )
Will trade directories show if they carried on in.the butchers trade
Bernard Charles Smith 1950_ 2018
Patrick J Smith 1958_2018
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A bit more information. Third son Terrencev b 1953 passed away last year
Im not finding addresses but they lived around liverpool 8
Were baptised RC at mount carmel .high park street
Parents john Patrick SMITH and Winifred nee Norris were buried at Allerton cemetery
That dosent get me closer to finding if they carried on butchers trade
I cant find any obits on ANCESTRY or electoral rolls with addresses that I recognize