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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: Webby on Wednesday 23 September 20 00:13 BST (UK)
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Morning everyone, have a question for someone who may have an answer to this!.
Elizabeth Avery had three lots of Banns called for her marriage to John Martin in Piddinghoe in July of 1781. On the FS site it has their marriage as being the 22nd July 1781 (this was the last date of the Banns of Marriage) - but no actual marriage.
On the 24th October 1781 there is a baptism for the first child- John Avery born to Elizabeth Avery BB. (base born).
There are 9 kids born to Elizabeth Avery...the first four have either base born or bb after the names, but the last five only have their name and the mother's name - Elizabeth Avery.
When Robert Avery (the person I was interested in) married Charlotte Phillips formerly Presnell nee Harris in 1846...Robert gave his father's name as John Martin a Shepherd!.
So could anyone tell me what could have occurred as to not proceed with the marriage? but then Elizabeth went on to have 9 kids (presumably) to John Martin anyway? Could he have been married prior to his marriage to Elizabeth?? ???
Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.
Cheers
Webby
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Hello Webby
I found several kids baptized but 1 you may find interesting
Hannah Avery
3 April 1785
Mother Elizabeth Avery
Extra notes ,Duty Paid , BB
Maybe worth looking into.
No mention of Banns on SMI
omega
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Hi Omega
Thanks for that info...very interesting!, I'll have a look today.
Thank you
Webby
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Hello Webby
Could this answer a few questions ?
From SMI
At Piddinghoe East Sussex
19 June 1775
John Martin, Bach
Sarah Baker,SP BOTP
John,Baptized 9 April 1779,Mum Sarah , Dad was a Labourer
A Sarah Martin was buried 23 Aug 1779. Does not give age
Could John who married in 1775 but Father of Elizabeth`s children ?
omega
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There is a John Martin buried 31 March 1829 Piddinghoe age 82 (1747)
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Good morning, thank you for your input!....
To start - - - another question!! - if the Sarah Martin who died in August of 1779 was John Martin's wife, then I can't see why there would be any problem for the marriage of John and Elizabeth (this was supposed to have occurred in July or August of 1781?
Another question would be if he was married (to someone else) - then the banns for the marriage to Elizabeth certainly wouldn't have occurred - as this was also in Piddinghoe - so everyone....would know what was happening, even to the Vicar!. (Sorry, I'm assuming Piddinghoe is a small place?)
I'll have another look on the FS site, but I don't think the Banns for John & Elizabeth had whether he was a widower or not?
The only other idea I had was that perhaps John and Elizabeth were too close in relationship to marry? But I have no information on this... or did it matter to Church in 1781? Anyway, apparently didn't matter to them....they still had 9 kids without the benefit of marriage!.
This is really a strange scenario and I don't think I've ever come across something like this before. :-\
Regards
Webby
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Morning Trish,
I think the death is that of the John Martin I'm looking for - I had thought that he was probably quite a lot older than Elizabeth (who's birth I have around 1767)...again nothing concrete to suggest that date, but child birth wise , she would have been around 20 or so at the first child (1781), so I've got Elizabeth's birth c 1761.
There isn't an age for the Elizabeth Avery who died in Piddinghoe in May of 1799 - so again at a standstill with her.
I'm starting to get a little off track here....this family isn't really my line (only that Robert Avery married into a Presnell family that I'm looking at!.) But, this is an interesting sideways look anyway!!. :)
Cheers
Webby
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Piddinghoe is extremely small now, I expect it was even smaller at that time.
Pheno
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Apologies Pheno for not replying sooner.... thank you for that info.....I had thought that Piddinghoe would be a small place, so it would probably be one of those places that everyone knew all and sundry!. So it looks as though something happened to have stopped that marriage?
Unfortunately, it appears that I won't find out what that could have been!! :)
Cheers
Webby
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I only we could go back in time Webby to ask questions :)
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I certainly would have a few pages of questions to ask various family members that's for sure!!....but this one about Elizabeth was just so interesting that it has been bugging me for ages!.
Anyway, after two hundred odd years...it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things lol!! ;)
Webby