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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: iwccc on Friday 25 September 20 09:08 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me ? On a soldiers records we have him "Embarked M.E. on "Tricolor" or at least this looks like it says this.
Was there a ship called Tricolor that took troops to Middle East orTobruk.
Later it says Disembarked 4 M.D. in March, 1942
Embarked Xl9
Disembarked. In August, 1942.
Are these numbers codes for ships?
Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you
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Possibly this one? https://www.warsailors.com/singleships/tricolor.html
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Could you post the original , context often helps.
MaxD
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Most probably, M.E. is Middle East and 4 M.D. is 4 Military District (M.D.).
In 1911, 4MD covered South Australia and Broken Hill, Torrowangee, and Silverton in New South Wales. However, in 1939 the Northern Territory and the territories of Papua and New Guinea became separate Military Districts and designated 7MD and 8MD respectively. At the beginning of the Second World War, the MDs were reorganised into geographic commands with 4MD subsumed into Southern Command – Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania (3MD, 4MD.
With regard to Shaunj’s entry, “Tricolor” sailed independently March 14 depart Adelaide (South Australia) arrived Sydney March 17 Requiring engine repairs.
However, XI9 has me flummoxed. It is unlikely to be a code trigraph represent a vessel.
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Perhaps this thread needs to be merged with iwccc's other current thread on this board as both are referring to the handwritten entries on the 12 pages of the Australian WWII Personnel file recently digitised and now online at naa.gov.au for 2nd AIF chap, NX11278, Walter Charles HORSFALL.
Add, I am on e reader, and likely without access to my desktop puter with two screens ... so one finger typing otherwise I would have typed up the movements from his file.
JM
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hi
this might be a longshot but could X19 be refering to X19 mooring vessel holdfast
or X19 mooring vessel dapper
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My reading for 17 August 1942 he embarked in Brisbane and several days later he arrived New Guinea per "X19".
ADD please see reply #8 ... embarked 10 Aug, disembarked 17 Aug. Etc.
JM .
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There is a concise summary towards the last page of the digitised records... also freely available as a 12 page pdf at that website ... you don't need any subs to access the Record search or view or downliad the digitised images ...
So he served Overseas for over 2000 days war service... with dates in Middle East, New Guinea and Borneo all clearly recorded. (Dates helped Army Admin re medals and pays)
JM I have edited to correct some predictative spelling issues.
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Can anyone help me ? On a soldiers records we have him "Embarked M.E. on "Tricolor" or at least this looks like it says this.
Was there a ship called Tricolor that took troops to Middle East orTobruk.
Later it says Disembarked 4 M.D. in March, 1942
Embarked Xl9
Disembarked. In August, 1942.
Are these numbers codes for ships?
Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you
And My reading for 17 August 1942 he embarked in Brisbane and several days later he arrived New Guinea per "X19".
JM .
A careful reading on my tiny palm sized e reader ... the Record shows he
Embarked "X19" at Brisbane (as in the capital city of Queenland) 10 August 1942, disembarked New Guinea 17 August 1942.
JM
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:)
At page 11 of 12,
Part B, 3. Operational Service, a) Overseas service : originally compiled 19 Sept 1945.
Middle East
4 May 1940 embarked from Australia to 13 March 1942 disembarked in Australia
New Guinea 10 August 1942 from Australia to 10 March 1943 disembarked in Australia
Borneo 6 May 1945 to 16 September 1945.
Same page, Part C ... 38 days overseas non effective service.
More details, but effective 30 Oct 1945 your chap took his discharge at RAS ie at the same location as he had enlisted... the Royal Agricultural Showground, Moore Park Rd, Paddington (Sydney).
page 5 ...
RTD D O Return to Duty, Daily Orders,
page 6
While in New Guinea he was hospitalised with a fever ... PUO
What other capital letters on which pages are of concern?
JM
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Hi,
X19 is the HMT vessel named as Ashun. Ashun and Jacob were both HMTs in Brisbane in August 1942 and transported the Bn to New Guinea. You can find confirmation for example X1 in the. Bn's War Diaries entry for 4 May 1940, which includes the time of the train departing Ingleburn that took them to Prymont and then to X1. And then all the Ports of call date time etc in that voyage up to Scotland. Moving forward to August 1942 and looking at Walter's digitised service record ... the clerk has written Ashun then crossed it out and written X19. So go to page 29 of volume 2 of the book 'of storms and Rainbows' yes it says that's for 2/12 battalion. :) .. some/coys from 2/2 Bn or more seem to have been renumbered to 2/12 Bn ... you can check with their official unit war diaries... headings on various diary pages refer to this occasionally ... , freely available online Australian War Memorial.
Add HMT as in His Majesty's Transport.
Further add ... MV Anshun :)
JM
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MV Anshun ... :) google it.
JM
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ShaunJ. Thank you - this is a very useful suggestion.
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q98, Thank you for all your help. This helps fill in a lot of my gaps. Much appreciated
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raonull4, Thanks for all your help. Much appreciated
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majm, So many helpful facts and places to follow up. I very much appreciated your help - it has assisted me to try and piece together my uncles war service. Thank you
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Hi majm, I am still having trouble with various letters. eg. the period April 1943 to Nov. 1943 what is M/l....GOD. and LTD. IADSC AMR ....etc. Cannot make any sense of this section. He appears to be in NSW and Queensland
I believe he was mentioned in Dispatches on Goodenough Island - have you any idea how I can check this out?
The family says he did a heroic deed to taking out a machine gun nest and that there was no 'standing'officers left so he moved from Private to Acting Sergeant to Sergeant in a short time. Because there was no Officers he was never written up for an award. How can I prove or disprove this?
Am I reading it right that on the 27 June, 1943 he was transferred to H.Q.2 Aust. Old.Field Park (AIF) If this is right it would have been when he joined my father - his brother. Thank you for help
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M/I is Marched In ... so moving from one place to another
I will check the image tomorrow.
JM
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Line of Communications
:)
JM
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Hi,
You may remember that on an earlier thread I gave you live links to various official
War Diaries.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=835525.0
Re knowing what your Uncles were doing daily/weekly etc
Official War Diaries :
2nd AIF
Unit War Diaries 1939-45. – specifically for 2/12 Batt.
https://www.awm.gov.au/learn/understanding-military-history/unit-diaries then to
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1359733 then to
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1360970 (I chose that option because 2/12 Batt was INFANTRY. Then from there :
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1359938 (Battalions,) scroll down to
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1361028 which is the 2/12 Infantry Batt. Scroll down further as see that basically it is in Chronological order, in sets, sometimes two or three months, sometimes one month at a time. You can download the diaries, or read them online.
So for example here is the live link for 2/12 Batt in December 1943. https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1365050 …. There’s 92 pages just for that live link
…..
Well, there’s also War Diaries for the Military Districts, Commands and Lines of Communications… https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1360067
So March 1943 your Walter was back in Australia – up around the Atherton Tablelands, in Qld. https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1361276
April 1943 War Diary for Qld L of C Area is ‘only’ 236 pages …. But at page 8 of 236 theres the entry that reads
1500 hrs Movement of LIDDINGTON personnel from Q’land L of C area to N.S.W. L of C Area and Vic L of C Area. I am fairly confident that LDD on Walter’s 12 page personnel file is the three letter code for LIDDINGTON. If so, then the three letter codes used elsewhere and after L of C are representing locations.
For others reading this thread now or in the future : the Second Australian Imperial Force and the Citizen Military Forces unit war diaries, 1939 -45 War :
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1359733
This series comprises the War Diaries created by the units of the 2nd Australian Imperial Force (AIF) and Citizen Military Forces (CMF) during the Second World War. While on active service, Army headquarters, formations and units were required to keep unit war diaries recording their daily activities. These diaries were arranged by unit and covered the period of one month at a time.
JM (the Armed Forces board has moved !)
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Goodenough Island - Operation Drake 22 - 27 October 1942. It will likely be in the War Diary - only 68 pages for three months ! https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1362557
JM
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Walter's B883 12 page personnel file and your
Hi majm, I am still having trouble with various letters. eg. the period April 1943 to Nov. 1943 what is M/l....GOD. and LTD. IADSC AMR ....etc. Cannot make any sense of this section. He appears to be in NSW and Queensland
I believe he was mentioned in Dispatches on Goodenough Island - have you any idea how I can check this out?
The family says he did a heroic deed to taking out a machine gun nest and that there was no 'standing'officers left so he moved from Private to Acting Sergeant to Sergeant in a short time. Because there was no Officers he was never written up for an award. How can I prove or disprove this?
Am I reading it right that on the 27 June, 1943 he was transferred to H.Q.2 Aust. Old.Field Park (AIF) If this is right it would have been when he joined my father - his brother. Thank you for help
So at page 6 of 12 there’s 1 A.P.S.C. for 31 May 1943 (likely on other pages the scribble could be misread as IADSC)
Reading the details on that same page (red handwriting) there’s ‘1 Aust Pers Staging Camp’ as in Number 1 Australian Personnel Staging Camp … (go back a couple of lines above that, read from 24 May 1943 … it seems on EMPIRE DAY 1943, Walter was AWL for less than six hours ! actually only 2 and ½ hours ie 0830 to 1100 hours to and that resulted in him being fined one Quid. £1)
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/SearchScreens/BasicSearch.aspx
at keywords enter NX11278
go to the ‘view digital copy’ option and view the 12 pages OR download the 12 page pdf.
JM
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Hi majm, thank you so much for all these links. I have , to the best of my ability, gone though all the links and cannot find anything that conclusively links the War Diaries to my Uncles reported Heroic deed. Is it possible to find a list of those who were Mentioned in Despatches? Or perhaps someone knows of a particular battle against the Japanese (I believe iActing Serg. to Coy.Commander in one battle. Sorry but this is all that I have to go on.
Anyone got any further suggestions as to how I can track this down? I must admit that all the reading of War Diaries has given me a much better understanding of what the soldiers went through. Maybe some Diaries I read were of the incidence I seek - I just did not recognise it. I need help from someone who understands the military and military ways. Thank you
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Well I've tried my hardest....but cannot find a list of names for those who were "mentioned in dispatches' in WW2. Does such a list exist? How can I find if my man was ever 'mentioned in dispatches"? That is my question - in fact the whole reason I am researching him is to find out if it is fact or myth that he received this. His name is Walter Charles Horsfall NX1128. I have tried The London Gazette and The Commonwealth of Aust. Gazette but can't seem to find anything there. Am I looking in the right place? I have looked up War Diaries and Battalion war records but to date cannot find him. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.