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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: Galium on Friday 25 September 20 14:39 BST (UK)
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I have a couple of marriages at Stanford in the Vale - in each case both parties are local - which the register says are by licence. There is no sign of either in the Sarum licence bonds index on FindMyPast. Both are in the 1760s.
Does anyone know where else they might have got a licence from?
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It's in the diocese of Oxford.
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Hi, Graham. Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately they aren't in the Oxfordfordshire marriage bonds index either.
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Berkshire was in the Diocese of Salisbury until 1836. The Archdeaconry of Berkshire was also used, but I believe its marriage bonds were destroyed during World War II. (There are some surviving indexes to the bonds - more information on request.)
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Thank you Watson. That probably explains it then. Do you happen to know where the surviving indexes are, and whether they would inlude marriages at Stanford in the Vale during the 1760s?
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The Archdeaconry of Berkshire was in Salisbury Diocese until 1836, when it transferred to Oxford.
Sarum Diocese records at Wilts Record Office and indexed on FindMyPast.
According to the present Diocese of Oxford website regarding bonds and associated papers
"Regrettably the Archdeaconry series for Berkshire was largely destroyed in 1943"
I think there are surviving calendars which would involve a visit to a Family History Library or Berks Record Office
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/756060?availability=Family%20History%20Library
I have no experience of using what survives of the Archdeaconry records, so perhaps someone who has can help out.
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Watson beat me to it as I was typing!
Stanford would be in these records.
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Thanks, stevemiller. Well, there's no chance of me visiting either of those places any time soon, so it will have to wait.
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Galium,
Stanford in the Vale did lie in the Archdeaconry of Berkshire, so, in theory, either the Archdeaconry of Berkshire or the Diocese of Salisbury could have been the issuing authority. In practice, one or the other may have been more commonly used at the time in question.
For indexes to the destroyed marriage bonds of the Archdeaconry, I think the most important repository would be the Berkshire Record Office. You could ask them if they would do a short search for you.
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Thank you, I'll try that. There are other marriages from this family that appear on the Sarum index - but I suppose that at different times one might have seemed more convenient than the other.
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Hi Galium,
The Wilts FHS produced a CD of Marriage Licence Bonds for the counties of Wilts Dorset & Berks some time ago and I have a copy.
If you care to give me some names I could look to see if any record is there.
I have found some marriages (By Licence) that took place in Berks, especially parishes in the north of the county, now in Oxon, are not listed so I expect they were issued by the local Bishop(s).
Alan
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It's in the diocese of Oxford.
Not in 1760.
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Hi Galium,
The Wilts FHS produced a CD of Marriage Licence Bonds for the counties of Wilts Dorset & Berks some time ago and I have a copy.
If you care to give me some names I could look to see if any record is there.
I have found some marriages (By Licence) that took place in Berks, especially parishes in the north of the county, now in Oxon, are not listed so I expect they were issued by the local Bishop(s).
Alan
Only one Bishop to worry about in 1760 - Sarum (Salisbury), but most licences were issued by Archdeacons. Try Archdeaconry of Berkshire licences at the BRO.
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Thank you, Alan, and newburychap. The marriages at Stanford in the Vale I am looking for licence records of:
John Whitehorne and Ann Belcher 22.9.1760
Henry Penstone and Elizabeth Belcher 18.12.1764
Thomas Mulcock (of Highworth, Wilts.) and Sarah Belcher 5.8.1765
(Note to Alan, these are children of Richard Belcher and Catherine née Spicer. It seems likely that Richard Belcher and Elizabeth Price also married by licence, but the available transcript doesn't state, and they don't show in the Sarum bond index. Lawrence, Mary and John, also from this family, who all married in the 1770s do appear in the Sarum bond index. )
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Hi Galium,
As I thought, those 3 marriages by Licence don't appear in the Marriage Licence Bond CD from the WiltsFHS. Nor does the marriage of Richard & Elizabeth in West Challow.***
I believe they must have been locally issued licences.
I have all of these as twiglets in my tree, although as I speak have lost their connections but, I have John Whitehorn marrying an Anne Belcher (Not Elizabeth). I have had another look thru the Stanford transcripts and cannot find a bapt. entry for Elizabeth but did find a 2nd Mary Belcher bapt. 29-6-1735 so I wonder if this should be Elizabeth.
I also had a look at the burials to see if the earlier Mary had died, before 1847 (when the 2nd was bapt.) but without success. Do you have any details for Elizabeth's birth/bapt ?
*** I have posted previously for help regarding the West Challow bapts/marriages being a chapellry of Letcombe Regis but they don't show in the transcripts. So where did Anc..y/IGI get their info from?
West Challow was with East Challow till 1852 when they started their own registers.
Sorry i can't be of better help.
Alan
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Thanks for taking the time to look those up, Alan.
I do think that Richard and Catherine's first Mary, as recorded in the Stanford in the Vale register is probably Elizabeth. Richard's will names his daughter Elizabeth first amongst his daughters, usually an indication that she is the eldest, so she would be older than Sarah, baptised in 1741 (Anne baptised February 1738 had died by the time the will was written).
There is a big enough gap between Anne and the twins Sarah and Joseph for Elizabeth to have been born, but if she was there is no reorded baptism (at least not in my OFHS transcript) and no obvious burial of a child Mary Belcher, either at Stanford in the Vale, or at Denchworth where son Joseph was buried in 1754. (I think Richard's father was originally from Denchworth.)
I don't know the origin of the information about Elizabeth Price, but an Elizabeth Belcher aged 49 was buried at Stanford 2 December 1787, so that would fit with the baptism date.
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Hi Galium,
I don't know the origin of the information about Elizabeth Price, but an Elizabeth Belcher aged 49 was buried at Stanford 2 December 1787, so that would fit with the baptism date.
Elizabeth Price was bapt. in West Challow 29-1-1737 (d/o Thomas & Mary). Again this is only from the IGI not from any of the transcripts for Letcomebe Regis or East Challow.
Alan
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I am always surprised how far people were from home when the married....
I've checked with the Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations 1637-1837 and Marriage Bonds 1730-1823 - on the Forest of Dean Family History website.... free to join, just register.
Around the date you are looking for.... there is
24 Jly 1762
James ANDREWS, occupation: Hemp dresser - residence: Fairford
to
Mary WHITEHORNE, Spinster, residence: Wantage in the County of Berks and diocese of Sarum
Marriage by Bond:
He signs
witness 1: Joseph PRICE of Fairford, Carpenter
The groom and Joseph PRICE are bound to the sum of £200 to marry at Wantage.
---
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There is also a Licence for this marriage on the same site.
James is over 21 and Mary is aged 28.
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Hi cape town,
What a lovely site. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
I have already registered and found two marriage allegations.
Alan
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I am always surprised how far people were from home when the married....
I've checked with the Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations 1637-1837 and Marriage Bonds 1730-1823 - on the Forest of Dean Family History website.... free to join, just register.
Around the date you are looking for.... there is
24 Jly 1762
James ANDREWS, occupation: Hemp dresser - residence: Fairford
to
Mary WHITEHORNE, Spinster, residence: Wantage in the County of Berks and diocese of Sarum
Marriage by Bond:
He signs
witness 1: Joseph PRICE of Fairford, Carpenter
The groom and Joseph PRICE are bound to the sum of £200 to marry at Wantage.
Wantage is only about 20 miles from Fairford.
It may seem further because it's different counties, but in that area there are four counties adjacent to each other, whose boundaries have been quite fluid over time.
Gloucestershire, Wiltshire, Berkshire and Oxfordshire.
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The Gloucestershire Marriage Licence and Bonds transcribed on the Forest of Dean Website - who do show people who have come from far afield - for example..... there are 12 from Liverpool between 1732 and 1805 ..... 17 from Manchester. 3 from Scotland, 4 from France etc. assume because of the waterways, rivers etc.
There is usually two copies - one the Bond the other the Licence - sometimes the surnames can be spelt different - and the place names are also different, (earlier spellings) - so it's worth checking - various options, i.e. surnames and places names.
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Hi, Capetown. The Forest of Dean site is great for marriage licence records, and always worth mentioning, so thank you for that. The coincidence of names Whitehorne and Price in the one you quote is interesting. Unfortunately the marriage records I am looking for are of people from Berkshire (and in one case Wiltshire), marrying in Berkshire. I did have a look, just in case.
Alan, I don't know what it is that familysearch have, but the West Challow entries say that there are accompanying images. Only viewable at one of their centres, but still, there must be something there.
Elizabeth Price's father Thomas died in 1741. His PCC will mentions his two daughters, the elder being Mary born c1735 (baptism also on familysearch). One of the witnesses is an Elizabeth Spicer.
Mary Price married a John Smith from Goosey (Sarum bond). I suspect it is their daughter Elizabeth, baptised at West Challow in 1755 (according to familysearch), who married John Belcher, Richard's younger brother. (These families will keep marrying their relatives! It doesn't make things easier trying to sort them out)
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I will have to look at my files etc. as I know Lizzie Belcher, was a witness to my Grandma’s marriage in West Hanney. Also the website on the net by the Berkshire Records Office on the Enclosures etc. Website: BRO: New Landscapes (www.berkshireenclosure.org.uk)
has many maps and documents full of information. I’ve got a book produced by the West Hanney History Group. Will have a look later.
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The FamilySearch film is of a later index of the Berkshire Archdeaconry licence records. It's not clear if both bonds and allegations survived until the destruction in WWII. The index records the names of both parties and parishes of residence. They do not contain additional information that would have been on the licensing records.
This can at least confirm where the licence would have been issued, even if the bond/allegation is no longer extant. There is a very small folder of bonds that survive for Berkshire. These are likely bonds that somehow made their way into other collections. There are only a small handful of these, so most no longer survive.
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Thank you for that, riholt. I haven't been working on this family for a while, and will need to go over what I have and don't have still.
And a very belated thanks for your last post, Capetown, with apologies for failing to reply in a timely manner. I don't know how that happened, but it was not intentional.