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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: GenesA on Friday 25 September 20 21:09 BST (UK)

Title: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: GenesA on Friday 25 September 20 21:09 BST (UK)
I've decided to post this on the Cheshire board although it occasionally crosses over with Lancashire, I hope this is OK!  ;D

John Davies was born about 1804 in Runcorn, Cheshire, the son of Edward Davies, a waterman. This is according to the 1861 census, the only census record I have for John so far. I have no baptism for John so cannot confirm this as absolute fact yet. He married Elizabeth Parry in Manchester Cathedral in 1845, by this time he was already a widower but I have no name for his first wife yet and I don't know if they had any children.

John and Elizabeth, however, had six children that I know of:

1. George Edward Davies, born 13 Sep 1847 in Hulme, Lancashire

2. Margaret Annie Davies, born 1849 in Hulme, Lancashire

3. John Davies, born 1853 in Lymm, Cheshire

4. Mary Davies, born 1855 in Kingsley, Cheshire

5. George Beck Davies, born 1859 in Dutton, Cheshire

6. Charlotte Davies, born 1862 in Dutton, Cheshire

I have tried to pay attention to the children's birthplaces, I suspect they moved around a lot because of John's work on the canals. The family are missing in the 1851 census but I do have them as living in Hulme in 1861.

I have found a possible entry for John Davies in the 1851 census that I would love to run by someone and see if it fits...

CANAL, Lymm, Cheshire

George Hargreaves, Captain, Unmarried, 25, Waterman
Richard Ball?, 14, Boat Boy
John Davies, Unmarried, 55, Waterman, born in Runcorn, Cheshire


The fact that this John is unmarried and slightly older than I would expect John to be is giving me a few misgivings but I'm trying to keep an open mind. "My" John did have a son born in Lymm in 1853 so it does sound plausible to me. But no wife and children in sight!
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 25 September 20 22:11 BST (UK)
How do you know his father was Edward?

EDIT

From his 1845 marriage cert. 
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 25 September 20 22:23 BST (UK)
1861 has surname as Davis - not Davies

Son George registered as Davis

1845 marriage was Davies

Have you checked 1851 under Davis?
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 25 September 20 22:43 BST (UK)
I can't find him in 1851 either - the only apparent match is the one you mention above.

Did he die before 1871?  If so - what age was given
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: GenesA on Saturday 26 September 20 09:37 BST (UK)
I think he died in 1867 at Manchester Union Workhouse - buried at Newton Heath aged 63. His youngest children are in Runcorn Workhouse in 1871.
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: GenesA on Saturday 26 September 20 09:49 BST (UK)
His other two children - Margaret and John - are living in Newton Heath in 1871. Not sure where John’s widow is.
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 26 September 20 11:27 BST (UK)
There is also this Family but very confusing Census POB/Occp etc

1851 Census
Chapel Lane
Cheetham, Lancs
John Davies   46 Head Mar Porter Seedsman born Wales, Carnarvonshire
Eliza Davies   39 Wife born Yorkshire
William Davies   9 Son
Margret Davies   2 Daug***
Mary Anne Davies 1 Daug
Sarah Foster   51 Lodger Widow
Mary Williamson   26 Lodger Unm

All others born Manchester

Bapt;
Mary Ann Davies
Birth 30 Mar 1850
Baptism 12 May 1850, Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
To JOHN/ELIZA
Father a Porter

As there is a gap in children 1861 Census some may have died.

Also that is the only Margaret with a Father John I could find.
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 26 September 20 11:46 BST (UK)
John was a boatman b Runcorn on the 1861 census.  Elizabeth was b Garstang
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 26 September 20 11:49 BST (UK)
Thanks have seen the 1861 Census and M/C Carole.

As I said that 1851 is the only Census I can see with a Daug Margaret for a John/Eliza.

I may be well off there but thought it was worth noting.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: josey on Saturday 26 September 20 11:57 BST (UK)
Have you got the children in 1851?
Is this George
HO107; Piece: 2189; Folio: 72; Page: 48; 12 Haigh Street Everton with 2 other households
Robert Woods   41 clerk b Middleton Warks
Georgiana V Eugenia Stclure   23 annuitant b Brompton Middx
George Davies   4 b Hulme visitor


Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: GenesA on Saturday 26 September 20 13:20 BST (UK)
Thanks, all. I don't have any of the children or his wife in 1851, although I did consider the George Davies one you found, Josey, it seems very likely. The family were in and out of the workhouses for most of their lives so it's possible they had all been split up for some reason.


Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: YorkshireBorn on Saturday 26 September 20 13:48 BST (UK)
Could this Elizabeth with Margaret in 1851?

HO155; Piece: 2221, Folio: 756, Page: 33, 1 Alderley Street, Saint George, Hulme, Manchester

Margaret Mitchell, Head, Unmar., 30, Smallware dealer, born Altrincham, Cheshire
Emma Mitchell, Daughter, Unmar., 10, scholar
Margaret Mitchell, Daughter, Unmar., 3
Henry Mitchell, Brother, Unmar., 25, Journeyman Brushmaker, born Altrincham, Cheshire
Mary Wilkinson, Sister, Mar., 35, born Altrincham, Cheshire
Elizabeth Wilkinson, Visitor, 5
James Wilkinson, Visitor, 10 months
Elizabeth Davies, Sister, Mar., 23, born Altrincham, Cheshire
Margaret Davies, Visitor, 3, born Manchester, Lancashire
Samuel Davies, Visitor, 4 months, born Prestwich, Lancashire



What was Elizabeth's maiden name? Was it Mitchell?


EDIT: Sorry, just noticed her maiden name was Parry.
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: josey on Saturday 26 September 20 13:50 BST (UK)
I saw that but it implies Elizabeth's maiden name is Mitchell as she is sister to unmarried Mary Mitchell & Henry Mitchell.

Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: YorkshireBorn on Saturday 26 September 20 13:52 BST (UK)
I saw that but it implies Elizabeth's maiden name is Mitchell as she is sister to unmarried Mary Mitchell & Henry Mitchell.

SAMUEL DAVIS, 1850 D QUARTER, BURY Lancashire, Mother's Maiden Surname: MITCHELL

Yes, looks like it's the wrong family  ::)
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: YorkshireBorn on Saturday 26 September 20 14:04 BST (UK)
What about Elizabeth's parents? Could the children be with maternal grandparents?
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: DCB on Saturday 26 September 20 16:19 BST (UK)
There is a slight problem with Elizabeth's surname. The baptism of George gives her maiden name as Perrey.

The marriage has Parry, daughter of Samuel, a carpenter,

Her baptism has Elizabeth, daughter of Samuel, a ship joiner, and Margaret Perry, on 27th April 1823 in Garstang.

He may be Samuel Parrey, a shipwright, who married Margaret Platt, in Liverpool St Peter, on 17th January 1822.

Also Sarah Perry, daughter of Samuel, a carpenter of Manchester, and Margaret in Garstang on 21st July 1833.

George Perry, son of Samuel, a joiner of Manchester, and Margaret in Garstang on 1st Nov 1835

In 1841, they may be in Wigan:-
Plank Lane, Wigan, Lancashire
Samuel  Perrey 35  1806  Lancashire - Ships Carpenter
Margaret  Perrey 40  1801  Lancashire
Elizabeth  Perrey 15  1826  Lancashire
James  Perrey 12  1829  Lancashire
Sarah  Perrey 10  1831  Lancashire
George  Perrey 7  1834  Lancashire
Margaret  Perrey 4  1837  Lancashire
Ann  Perrey  Female 1841  Lancashire - On GRO as Perry mmn Platt

David
Title: Re: Is this my John in 1851?
Post by: GenesA on Saturday 26 September 20 16:39 BST (UK)
Yes, DCB, that's the right couple. Elizabeth's parents were Samuel Parry, a ship's carpenter, and Margaret Platt. They married 17 June 1822 in Liverpool. There seems to have been confusion over Elizabeth's birthplace - she was baptised in Garston, not Garstang, although the census does say Garstang. I can confirm that I have the right family, though, I have common DNA ancestors with both Samuel and Margaret's ancestors.

11 August 1822, Garston, St Michael
Elizabeth d. of Samuel Parry, Shipwright, and Margaret

In 1861, Samuel and Margaret are in Hulme but I haven't found them in any other censuses - thanks for finding them in 1841, DCB.  :)