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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: NooshieW on Saturday 03 October 20 18:13 BST (UK)

Title: DNA shocker
Post by: NooshieW on Saturday 03 October 20 18:13 BST (UK)
Hi,
Has anyone else done an Ancestry DNA test and had a surprise result?
I am not matched with people I always believed to be cousins, albeit not mega close cousins.
I have emailed and conversed with them for years,we have shared data, photos and I have a whole section of an album dedicated to a branch I am not connected too.
It seems my GT GT Grandmother, who was a woman of poor repute anyway, passed off my great grandmother as her husbands child.
I will never know who my gt gt grandfather is, but as my DNA is an unexpected 25% Scots, perhaps this is where it is!!
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: medpat on Saturday 03 October 20 18:16 BST (UK)
You could find your gt gt grandfather's family via a DNA match.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: NooshieW on Saturday 03 October 20 18:23 BST (UK)
You could find your gt gt grandfather's family via a DNA match.
Apart from, sister, daughter and known close cousins, there are no other close matches at all
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: coombs on Saturday 03 October 20 18:29 BST (UK)
Hi,
Has anyone else done an Ancestry DNA test and had a surprise result?
I am not matched with people I always believed to be cousins, albeit not mega close cousins.
I have emailed and conversed with them for years,we have shared data, photos and I have a whole section of an album dedicated to a branch I am not connected too.
It seems my GT GT Grandmother, who was a woman of poor repute anyway, passed off my great grandmother as her husbands child.
I will never know who my gt gt grandfather is, but as my DNA is an unexpected 25% Scots, perhaps this is where it is!!

It could be other reasons as well, DNA is not infallible, and it can be easy to assume the worst because of no match with cousins. Unless I am trying to use wishful thinking and just do not want to believe the possibility of infidelity in our ancestors days was more common than I thought. To some biology means everything and to be honest I would be gutted if I did a DNA test and found that a beloved 3xgreat grandfather wasn't a blood ancestor.

Did your great grandmother have any siblings?
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: NooshieW on Saturday 03 October 20 18:47 BST (UK)
Hi,
Has anyone else done an Ancestry DNA test and had a surprise result?
I am not matched with people I always believed to be cousins, albeit not mega close cousins.
I have emailed and conversed with them for years,we have shared data, photos and I have a whole section of an album dedicated to a branch I am not connected too.
It seems my GT GT Grandmother, who was a woman of poor repute anyway, passed off my great grandmother as her husbands child.
I will never know who my gt gt grandfather is, but as my DNA is an unexpected 25% Scots, perhaps this is where it is!!

It could be other reasons as well, DNA is not infallible, and it can be easy to assume the worst because of no match with cousins. Unless I am trying to use wishful thinking and just do not want to believe the possibility of infidelity in our ancestors days was more common than I thought. To some biology means everything and to be honest I would be gutted if I did a DNA test and found that a beloved 3xgreat grandfather wasn't a blood ancestor.

Did your great grandmother have any siblings?
Yes she did, the issue is with her husband. None of the cousins on his line match my DNA, it is such a surprise, but given the occupation of his wife, not such a surprise.
I think I am upset that the people who I believed to be relatives aren’t, as I have built relationships with them and also the amount of work I’ve done on that branch of the tree.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 03 October 20 21:16 BST (UK)
I think your cousins are still your cousins regardless of blood connections .

If you share experiences that is important ..you can keep your tree and add on alternative parent in the appropriate box ..you could call him unknown scot .

My mother has parallel branches for her mothers adoptive family and the blood line .branch

As medpat says you could find a cluster of matches which lead to your great great grandfather
Either via a surname or a place of origin ..do you use the colour coding system.?


I had a surprise ...my mothers dna(who only has small amounts of scottish ) had a 3rd cousin.scottish connection to someone with my fathers surname in Canada !  turned out to be thru marriage







Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: NooshieW on Saturday 03 October 20 23:16 BST (UK)
I think your cousins are still your cousins regardless of blood connections .

If you share experiences that is important ..you can keep your tree and add on alternative parent in the appropriate box ..you could call him unknown scot .

My mother has parallel branches for her mothers adoptive family and the blood line .branch

As medpat says you could find a cluster of matches which lead to your great great grandfather
Either via a surname or a place of origin ..do you use the colour coding system.?


I had a surprise ...my mothers dna(who only has small amounts of scottish ) had a 3rd cousin.scottish connection to someone with my fathers surname in Canada !  turned out to be thru marriage
Thanks, no I don’t use a colour coding system , what is that?
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 03 October 20 23:53 BST (UK)
You allocate a colour to group your matches
for example:. you could choose coloure for each of your great grandparents and places

.create groups then you can add colour to  any shared match that you know how to connect


Also you can * star any matches of special interest

And you can create groups that you dont know how they connect but if a particular name keeps cropping up

So for example my full cousin has blue /light blue  + red+ pinkn represesnting shared  greatgranparents on paternal side and purple representing their town of origin

Half cousin only has purple and blue

Choose your own system but its useful even if a tree is closed you can sometimes tell from mutual matches which branch they belong to so you can add a colour  theres facility to add a note too

Hope thats clear
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Kiltpin on Sunday 04 October 20 10:49 BST (UK)
We are back to NATURE or NURTURE, again. 

If you had not done the test, nothing would have changed. And in truth, nothing has changed - each and all of you are still the same person you were before. 

The ultimate example must be the loving couple celebrating their 60+ years of marriage. There might children, but between themselves there is no DNA link. 

Regards 

Chas
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: NooshieW on Sunday 04 October 20 11:46 BST (UK)
We are back to NATURE or NURTURE, again. 

If you had not done the test, nothing would have changed. And in truth, nothing has changed - each and all of you are still the same person you were before. 

The ultimate example must be the loving couple celebrating their 60+ years of marriage. There might children, but between themselves there is no DNA link. 

Regards 


Chas
If only that were true. I have already had one brusque, rather dismissive email wishing me ‘luck in the future’ as though all ties are cut now. I feel really sad about it and not knowing who my great great grandfather is , is really upsetting.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Familysearch on Sunday 04 October 20 14:13 BST (UK)
I am tempted to try a DNA test.  Does anyone have any preferences or recommendations as to which lot I choose?
Can I stay anonymous if I wish to?  Not that I have anything to hide (I don't think!) but don't want to be inundated with spam.

FS
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: IgorStrav on Sunday 04 October 20 14:25 BST (UK)
I think Ancestry is still recommended as the best site to test DNA as it has the broadest reach.

I don't quite know what you mean by 'bombarded by spam'?

People seem to do DNA tests for several reasons:

- they are given them as presents, don't understand the reasoning, are slightly entertained by discovering they're 26% Scottish (for example) which is only as accurate as the database of the research ie not very
- they've done it possibly as above, but don't want to use it so don't have a tree, only joined Ancestry for this purpose, don't log in and don't reply if you message them
- people who are interested in Family History research and would like to use DNA as a tool to either find relatives, or possibly break down brick walls. 
These are the people who will review you and shared matches you both have, and may write to you to ask FH questions (much like people do on here). 

You have the option not to reply.  Many people - very frustratingly - seem to choose not to reply.

If you're not going to use the DNA matches and data you get from a test, then it's probably not worth the bother just for the not-particularly-useful location of your ancestry suggestions.


And the other thing I would say is that I expected to be able to recognise where my DNA matches fitted into my tree, as I've done quite a bit of FH history research.  And I can't, for very very many of them. 


Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: coombs on Sunday 04 October 20 14:29 BST (UK)
Read Guy Etchells replies on this thread, he brings up some valid points and says that people can read too much into DNA testing and jump to conclusions.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=807125.0
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Biggles50 on Sunday 04 October 20 14:37 BST (UK)
Find the colour coding of matches very useful.

I only allocate a Star when I have created a proven link from the match to me, a Star stands out in the DNA matches and I know that the Match is in a branch of my tree by the Star.

If I have a high cM match such as Sue123 with 120 cM then with her selected I create a colour coded Group titled “Sue123 & Me” and everyone in that Group is a Shared Match with us both and hence each is allocated the chosen coloured dot.

I have created such Colour Coded Groups for all those with over a 75 cM match.

Additionally I have one Colour Coded Group where each included match has a viewable tree of 200+ people.  Thus I can filter using this group and only see matches where there is a possible chance of creating a branch to them.

Creating the coding system allows for filtering out the No Tree low cM match where realistically you have little hope if finding a route for a branch
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 04 October 20 16:45 BST (UK)
Nooshie are your "cousins" people youve connected with since starting genealogy

I  agree with kiltpin
.
Often we are close to aunts and uncles and stepgrandparents  who are not blood related

Hopefully you will find some new family connections .

My mother traced her mums birth mother visited grave places she and her ancestors had lived
Only to discover ten years later that she had the wrong woman with the same name
She became fonder of this new grandmother who was younger and whose mother had died when she was a child also she discovered a great grandfather with an interesting name from Bugbrook...her new found very distant relatives took her on a tour of churchyard there .

I was really scared of telling her she.d got the wrong grandmother but it turned out well in end .and we found a real live half cousin for her ..tho they havent met .
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: ansteynomad on Sunday 04 October 20 17:48 BST (UK)
It throws you, doesn’t it OP?

I have five relatively close matches and can find no obvious connection with four of them, who all go back to the same marriage in 19th century Lincolnshire that means absolutely nothing to me.

We are all baffled.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 04 October 20 20:15 BST (UK)
Maybe the husband had lots of affairs with married women
Anstey
Or the woman had baby pre marriage who you all relate to
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 05 October 20 10:37 BST (UK)
Quote
To some biology means everything and to be honest I would be gutted if I did a DNA test and found that a beloved 3xgreat grandfather wasn't a blood ancestor.

I have to say that none of my 3xgreat grandparents are "beloved" by me as they were all long, long dead before I was so much a twinkle in anyone's eye!

I have several "cousins", and was always brought up to consider us all equal as cousins, but in fact not one of them is a full cousin as my father was the only child of his parent's marriage before his father was killed and his mother went on to remarry. All my cousins are really 2nd cousins, I suppose, as we share only 2 grandparent, not two. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. I would however be very upset if suddenly, based on a DNA test, I was disowned, and I can well understand that OPs distress over this.

I do wonder about one of my grandparent lines and whether it's not all it seems to have been and if all my research has actually been in vain, as I have not a single DNA match arising from it. If it were ever to turn out that there was marital infidelity, and I've been barking up the wrong family tree, I shall feel a bit frustrated about my wasted efforts------ but OTOH they weren't really wasted; it was all practice in using genealogical resources and since one of the things I enjoy about FH is learning about social history, I still learnt from doing that line.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 05 October 20 11:47 BST (UK)
Annie the family history is that they lived together as a family so the tree remains valid  .to me blood line is interesting but family life from past is what matters .I m interested in my Nana's adoptive family ...i her foster father was born in a workhouse ..their birth children would have shared same values. + If I could find living descendants I'd consider them family too .
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Marmaduke 123 on Monday 05 October 20 11:49 BST (UK)
Hi,
Has anyone else done an Ancestry DNA test and had a surprise result?


I think many people, myself included, have had a surprise result. DNA tests should come with a warning to be prepared for anything!

In my case I had a strong match at the first to second cousin level, which was inexplicable. My conclusion was that my mother and my matches mother were half sisters. I won't go into the detail of how and why I reached this conclusion.

I can understand that you are upset at "losing" a major part of your tree, I felt the same.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: coombs on Monday 05 October 20 11:53 BST (UK)
Quote
To some biology means everything and to be honest I would be gutted if I did a DNA test and found that a beloved 3xgreat grandfather wasn't a blood ancestor.

I have to say that none of my 3xgreat grandparents are "beloved" by me as they were all long, long dead before I was so much a twinkle in anyone's eye!

I am someone who has become attached to certain ancestors, so beloved is in the eye of the beholder.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: NooshieW on Wednesday 07 October 20 09:59 BST (UK)
Thanks for all your replies
*UPDATE^
One of my friends suggested signing up to ‘Through Lines’ on Ancestry, as this may throw up some matches and help me out.
Well low and behold one of my cousins suddenly appeared as a 3rd cousin once removed and they hadn’t been there at all prior to that.
I therefore am related to them and I am therefore able to say that my 2 x gt grandfather is indeed that!!
I still have another branch that has been thrown into question by the DNA ,but hope to sort it out eventually.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Seesure on Wednesday 07 October 20 12:08 BST (UK)
Keep your chin up with it...

Through DNA (I used Ancestry and then uploaded to MyHeritage) with the help of a cousin we managed to identify our real GT Grandfather on my mother's side.

As a result we've identified that my grandfather had 13 half siblings by this "previously unknown of" man and his wife, plus we also have another DNA lead that points to another half sibling, by this man, that was also outside of marriage with another woman.

So it looks like my grandfather, in total, had at least 17 half siblings that we've now identified, (we already knew of 3) and I'm guessing there are at least a couple more waiting to be discovered :)

With that last one, the person who we have high DNA links with says they don't have time to explore their family history although we believe them to be retired.. it's a shame but we'll slowly unravel it.

Personally I'd say look at it as the opportunity to find that long lost family who might have some interesting stories to share...
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Biggles50 on Wednesday 07 October 20 12:21 BST (UK)
It is very frustrating finding a DNA Shocker or rather an unexpected match.

I am detailing my own trials and tribulations of a 364 cM match in the thread that I started:-

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=837260.0

Hours and hours have so far been spent creating my Floating Branch of the high cM match which has now been linked together to four other shared matches, so now I have five DNA Matches in their own mini tree but try as I may I cannot yet link them to my own Tree.

We are now in the midst of creating a Leeds Method analysis spreadsheet so it is very much a work in progress.

Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Nanna52 on Wednesday 07 October 20 12:51 BST (UK)
No surprises yet.  But I am the surprise to many.  I knew that my grandfather wasn’t my grandfather, but others didn’t know about the wandering eye of a family member.  One of my half first cousins knew we weren’t full cousins, but another didn’t and it has taken him a while to get his head around the secrets in his family tree.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Wednesday 07 October 20 16:00 BST (UK)
If only that were true. I have already had one brusque, rather dismissive email wishing me ‘luck in the future’ as though all ties are cut now. I feel really sad about it and not knowing who my great great grandfather is , is really upsetting.

As has been said, it may be 'upsetting', but genealogy always includes the chance of discovering some facts you would rather have not found.  It can be a Pandora's box.  Objectively nothing in 'you' has changed, but you feel that your surroundings are unfamiliar.  If you aren't ready to deal with the unexpected it might be safer to stop digging, but the search itself should be enjoyable.  You may have to readjust your bearings occasionally.

Of course you could simply continue to believe whatever you prefer to believe - there is always plenty of room for doubt.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: brigidmac on Wednesday 07 October 20 21:14 BST (UK)
So glad that thru lines came up with some positive connections for you .
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: NooshieW on Wednesday 07 October 20 23:57 BST (UK)
It is very frustrating finding a DNA Shocker or rather an unexpected match.

I am detailing my own trials and tribulations of a 364 cM match in the thread that I started:-

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=837260.0

Hours and hours have so far been spent creating my Floating Branch of the high cM match which has now been linked together to four other shared matches, so now I have five DNA Matches in their own mini tree but try as I may I cannot yet link them to my own Tree.

We are now in the midst of creating a Leeds Method analysis spreadsheet so it is very much a work in progress.
Very interesting, especially how the amount of cm can vary. One cousin ( we share the same 3 x gt grandparents) is only 15 cm / 1 segment. The same relationship on another branch, the person shares 220 cm . I can’t fathom it out!! I know we inherit differing amounts of DNA from different lines,but that seems a huge difference.
Hope you sort yours out, I have a long way to go.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: anne_p on Thursday 08 October 20 00:48 BST (UK)
I always find it odd that most folk are trying to find an identity whilst others get a shock in their results that produce an NPE. ( Not Parent Expected)

My DNA experience was a bit different.
After almost 20yrs, I consider myself fairly experienced in family history.

Stupid as this may sound, it never crossed my mind ( not once) that my late mum had a biological father.
None listed on any document. None was ever mentioned, therefore none existed.
  ( I'm experienced. LOL)


My own curiosity over unidentified matches combined with determination to find the link, I inadvertently unearthed his identity.
I certainly wasn't looking for a "non existent" grandfather but, DNA found him.

I had been looking at this person and his family on my study tree for weeks.
I then found a public tree with photos of this man on it.
 I almost fell off my chair.
The resemblance to my mum was scary and the preverbial penny?.... it finally dropped !

That was my shocker

Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Thursday 08 October 20 09:56 BST (UK)
I sometimes wonder about my mother's parents.  They married in 1897 and almost immediately sailed to India, where their only child was born 7 years later, when Granny was 34.  It seems odd that it took that long, and that there were no other children (as far as I know :o).  Might she have sown a wild oat ?

I haven't got involved with DNA analysis, and I don't think I would be unduly disturbed if it turned up something irregular.  It might add an exotic flavour to my tree ....
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: chempat on Thursday 08 October 20 10:45 BST (UK)
I know a lot of families that only had one child, in history and nowadays.  Nothing unusual.

She may have had a lot of miscarriages.

There are many reasons why no child until 7 years later.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: brigidmac on Thursday 08 October 20 11:05 BST (UK)
Nooshie while there is a large range of differences in cm s
With 3rd cousins you do have to consider that you might not share BOTH. Great grandparents
I have a lot of examples and my mother and aunts DNA to compare
The smaller matches are often because ancestors had a second marriage .my great grandfather had children with first wife and married a woman who had children with her first husband so descendants of my mother's HALF cousins have smaller matches to me
Or if I child has been passed off as it's grandmother s child when actually child of her daughter .
The DNA match can be smaller than you expect .
Have you seen the cm painter chart .
Can someone share it please .I can't post attachments.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Nanna52 on Thursday 08 October 20 11:11 BST (UK)
Do you mean this brididmac?

https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4

Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: Andrew Tarr on Thursday 08 October 20 13:01 BST (UK)
I know a lot of families that only had one child, in history and nowadays.  Nothing unusual. She may have had a lot of miscarriages.  There are many reasons why no child until 7 years later.

Of course there are.  But in this family it would have been 'unusual' as she was one of nine and her husband one of eleven.  That in itself may have caused a 'backlash' I suppose; at that time the 'usual' thing was to have several children.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: coombs on Thursday 08 October 20 13:15 BST (UK)
I am sure NPE's were rare though. Only a 2% chance of such an event in each parental event. And some DNA tests are not infallible as well, and people can be assuming it is an NPE when there could be many other reasons rather than jumping to painful conclusions.
Title: Re: DNA shocker
Post by: brigidmac on Thursday 08 October 20 13:20 BST (UK)
Yes nanna
that's the one
It
Shows that 220cm is too high to be full third cousins .

It does suggest one has a different great grandfather or that a great grandmother took on her husband's child.

That happens too and birth registration and baptisms covered up some deceptions so are not necessarily proof .

Also if you look carefully at some trees they've added or skipped a generation .

I trust DNA results while allowing for differences