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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: olympus593 on Sunday 04 October 20 13:25 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone. As you all have been so helpful with my previous post I thought I ask for some help on something I have been really stuck on!
I am looking for more information on Elizabeth Lucy Cartwright, née Gibson. I know that she was born on the 8th of January 1909. She died in the December quarter, 1984 in Oxfordshire. She married William A Cartwright in Ploughley, Oxfordshire in the first quarter of 1969.
I am really looking for information regarding her birth. Sadly I have been unable to find her birth record using any of the research sites.
In the 1939 England and Wales Register. Elizabeth is recorded as living at 15 Huntille Cottages, Stoke-On-Trent. She is living with Arthur Gibson, his son Arthur Frear Gibson (b 1915) his son’s wife Violet as well as his granddaughter Beryl (b 1939 – d 1941).
In the 1939 she is listed as married. I have to say that I cannot find any record of her marrying Arthur Gibson. If anyone can find any information on this please let me know.
I am therefore assuming that her birth name was indeed Elizabeth Lucy Gibson but I just cannot be sure. I believe Arthur was an only child, so she was not a niece for example.
This is something of a family mystery so please do not worry if you cannot help in this matter. As it stands we have no idea what her relationship was to Arthur.
Look forward to the replies.
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Do you have her marriage to William Cartwright as that should give information about her father
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Hi. I found the index entry on find my past in England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005.
I see what you mean though, perhaps I could order the marriage certificate from this index, it should give me more information.
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GIBSON, ARTHUR FREAR mmn LAING
GRO Reference: 1915 J Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 1192
Marriage Sep qtr 1909
GIBSON Arthur
LAING Millicent Catherine
Newcastle T. 10b 240
Deaths Jun qtr 1931
Gibson Millicent C age 44 Hendon 3a 347
Possible remarriage for Arthur
Marriage Mar qtr 1935
Gibson Arthur
Heath Elizabeth L
Surrey N W 2a 547
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Could this be her birth and marriage
Births Mar 1909
Heath Elizabeth Lucy Yarmouth 4b 17 mmn Hitchings
Marriages Mar 1935
Allard George W Bigg Surrey N.W. 2a 547
Bigg Mary J Allard Surrey N.W. 2a 547
Gibson Arthur Heath Surrey N.W. 2a 547
Heath Elizabeth L Gibson Surrey N W 2a 547
John
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1911 for Elizabeth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X75V-SCJ
HEATH, ELIZABETH LUCY HITCHINGS
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in YARMOUTH GREAT YARMOUTH Volume 04B Page 17
Marriage Jun qtr 1906
HEATH Ernest George
HITCHINGS Elizabeth Agnes
London C. 1c 60
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Thanks everyone for all of the information, I am going to look into this today.
Rosie I cannot view your 'familysearch' link but I do have ancestry and Find My Past. Was the address 70 York Road, Gt Yarmouth in the census with Ernest George Heath as her father. Just so I can check this is what you were linking?
Thanks everyone. Will be back later.
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Ernest Heath 1901 census ref
Piece: 264
Folio: 41
Page Number: 13
Household Schedule Number: 51
John
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In answer to your question "YES No. 70 "
John
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With viewing problems for Family Search, have you registered for an account? Free to do so, but you now need to register to be able to use.
Monica
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There is on Ancestry a comprehensive tree for Ernest George Heath that appears to check out when followed backwards. Could save you time in your research.
John
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There is on Ancestry a comprehensive tree for Ernest George Heath that appears to check out when followed backwards. Could save you time in your research.
John
Hi, is this called Claire's tree?
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Thank you to everyone who has posted so far, I am gaining more and more information about Elizabeth.
In the electoral register from 1935 Elizabeth and Arthur are living in ‘Halfway’, Walton Park, Chertsey, Surrey. Elizabeth’s mother, Elizabeth Agnes Heath, is also living at the address.
Arthur Gibson is actually my relative, if Elizabeth is indeed who we think she is then she would be his second wife. I would imagine the next step is for me to order a copy of the marriage certificate. Hopefully this will allow me to confirm that my Arthur Gibson did indeed marry again after the death of his first wife. I think from what has been posted we can be fairly certain that he did!
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That address is in the parish of Walton on Thames, close to Hersham Railway Station
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That address is in the parish of Walton on Thames, close to Hersham Railway Station
Thank you. I have to say I had a look at the street and a quick look at some of the neighbors. They all seem to be professionals and the houses are rather large. Which is a little disconcerting as Arthur was not a wealthy man.
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Hi, just out of interest was your Arthur Gibson the son of Frear & Eliza Bainbridge.
john
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Hi, just out of interest was your Arthur Gibson the son of Frear & Eliza Bainbridge.
john
Hi John, yes he was the son of Frear and Eliza. Though I have plenty of information on Frear and his family. I am really trying to gather as much information on Elizabeth Lucy Gibson. I think everything posted checks out but cannot be 100% sure without the marriage cert.
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Quite agree, marriage cert will give you the proved evidence needed. Have a good evening.
John
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I posted this on main board because I was interested in this original post.
John
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=838354.new#new
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UPDATE: Thank you to everyone who has posted, in particular Rosie and John. Marriage certificate arrived this morning from the GRO. Can confirm that:
Marriage Mar qtr 1935
Gibson Arthur
Heath Elizabeth L
Surrey N W 2a 547
Was the marriage I was looking for. The details listed in the certificate are a match for my relative, Arthur Gibson. I can also confirm that the 1935 Chertsey/Walton on Thames address is correct as I now know who Arthur’s mother in law was.
My next mission is to try to find out when Arthur Gibson died. I have a few leads to follow up on this.
I just wanted to say that without everyone’s help I would not have been able to find this information, everyone is always so helpful on the forum
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Great result, I will spend a wee while looking for Arthur's death.
John
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Bearing in mind his birthdate and location in 1939 a contender for death below
Arthur Gibson
Death Age: 65
Birth Date: abt 1883
Registration Date:
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec registered in Oct 1948
Registration District: Stoke on Trent
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 479
John
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Great result, I will spend a wee while looking for Arthur's death.
John
Thanks John, very much appreciated. Just out of interest, are you using BMD or the GRO for searching for index records? Which would your recommend?
One point I forgot to mention was that in the marriage cert Arthur gave his birth date as 1889 rather than abt. 1883 as it appears in census. However I am certain this is him. I believe he lied about his age as there was a big age gap between him and his wife. This had caused issues in the family.
Furthermore, I cannot be certain Arthur died in Stoke-on-Trent. I certainly think its a fair assumption.
Elizabeth Lucy Gibson married again in Ploughley, Oxfordshire in 1969. This may not be relevant, perhaps this is where she and Arthur were living upon his death?
If I was a betting man, it would say Stoke on Trent was likely where Arthur died.
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Hi, the marriage certificate you have just received for Arthur & Elizabeth should record his father's name as Frear. Freebmd lists the marriage of Frear Gibson & Eliza Bainbridge in 1882 and Arthur is born 1883 with mmn as Bainbridge. The GRO index lists births now with a mother's maiden name, Freebmd does not. With regard to deaths I tend to use Anc* deaths 1916-2007 as freebmd has not yet transcribed all deaths yet, think they are working on 1984-1992. The gro index for deaths goes up to 2019 but you have to trawl though a date +/- 2 years from 2007 onwards as you cannot enter a birth year unlike Anc*, ( think I am correct with that statement but if not someone will put me right) I use a rule of thumb that if someone was born pre 1907 then their death is normally before 2007, there will always be exceptions to this rule of course
With regard to Arthur recording his age in 1935 as born 1889 is probably exactly the reason you have stated, there was a "fair" gap in ages. The Stoke on Trent death is not a given but certain criteria are met. Like the marriage cert you ordered you have to take a chance sometimes ie "you pays your money and take a chance". There were 5 other Arthur deaths with dob 1883(between 1916-2007)but death locations did not seem to fit.
Regards
John
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Just learnt something after posting last message. Anc* now has deaths 1989-2019 and you can enter a birth year.
John
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Just learnt something after posting last message. Anc* now has deaths 1989-2019 and you can enter a birth year.
John
Just adding that it is not all the deaths, many are sourced from some undertakers records by a company in Yorkshire
The GRO index at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp. does have records for that period though
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Thanks rosie, every day a learning day even for old farts like me :)
John
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Thank you both. Can confirm that marriage certificate matches what John mentions.
I will have a search of the GRO and see what that brings up. I currently have some other documents on order from them :) Once they arrive I will have a think about whether or not I should pull the trigger on ordering the death certificate that matches the above index entry that John posted. The occupation section on the death certificate should allow me to confirm whether or not this was my Arthur Gibson.
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https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=838850.msg7045376
A post on Arthur Gibson's father, Frear, for anyone that has enjoyed this topic. Thanks!