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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: BrianMski on Monday 05 October 20 10:48 BST (UK)
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Hello all, This is my first post here. I have been researching my Mead family line via Ancestry and in particular a 2nd Gt. Grandfather John Chennell who was married to Eliza Lineger and worked as a Gardener on the Windsor royal estate. Census info from 1851 onwards consistently states he was born in Warnham, Sussex in 1838, however I just cannot find any trace of him in any records i have searched for that name/DoB in Warnham itself, though there are certainly Chennells in Warnham. Other Ancestry Trees with Chennells also seem to come to dead end at this same point. In the 1851 census, when he is (apparently) only 13, he is living with a family in Hanover Square London and then in 1861 census and thereafter he is living and working at Windsor.
Here's hoping anyone may be able to help.
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Greetings, and a warm welcome to Rootschat.
The General Register Office (GRO) has the birth registration:
CHENNEL John, Dec qtr 1837 Horsham vol 7 p275, mmn BENNETT
Warnham was in the Horsham Registration District.
The GRO website is:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
- it is free to register and search, and the cheapest place to order BMD certificates. The birth certificate should give you the parents' full names and (if any) the father's occupation.
Philip
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Welcome to rootschat
I see that there are 2 John Chennel's born in Warnham around the same time, do you have the marriage certificate for your which should give the name of his father.
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Welcome to rootschat
I see that there are 2 John Chennel's born in Warnham around the same time, do you have the marriage certificate for your which should give the name of his father.
What is the source? I had a look on FreeReg and couldn't see a baptism for John.
Good point about the father's name - I hadn't thought of that. For reference, the marriage (found on FreeBMD):
Sep qtr 1863 St George Hanover Square vol 1a p540 CHENNELL John, same page as LINEGAR Eliza
Philip
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I was looking at census so birth dates are always 'flexible' one married an Elizabeth the other an Eliza but I think the birth you have is for the right one as the other generally is older.
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Outside possibility, maybe :-\
Marriage at St James Westminster, 11 April 1836
John Chennell + Sarah Bennett
Baptism at Ockley, Surrey, 11 March 1838
John
Son of John + Sarah Chennell
abode Watton
father Gardener
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Many thanks all of you for helping here. I found the birth record as posted though not sure why i hadn't found it before! I've put Bennett in the Tree as the mother but still cant get any further as no further Hints come up. I think the Westminster marriage may be a red herring (tho who knows) as Censuses all show John Chennell as born in Warnham, but thanks for looking anyway. I'm guessing that if John Chennell's parents live din Warnham then they are probably buried there, or close by, so maybe i just need to go there and trawl around.
Thanks again, but if any other insights do let me know, as I'm relatively new to this and probably don't know all the search "tricks"..
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Does his marriage to Eliza Lineger name his father as that should help to confirm if Jonw65 has the right baptism
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat :D
I would hang on to the baptism and marriage Jon found as quite likely. Ockley is less than 5 miles from Warnham.
Jan
Added
In Wotton, Surrey 1841 there is a 3 year old John Chennell living with Edward Chennell 55 and Elizabeth Chennell 55 and Eliza 15 and Martha 13. They are all born in county except John and Edward. HO 107/1081/3/20 Pg6
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Quote below
In Wotton, Surrey 1841 there is a 3 year old John Chennell living with Edward Chennell 55 and Elizabeth Chennell 55 and Eliza 15 and Martha 13. They are all born in county except John and Edward. HO 107/1081/3/20 Pg6
Wonder if John was a widower when he married Eliza Linegar??
Marriage of a John Chennell bachelor aged 24 (aged 23 on 1861 census) 3rd August 1861 parish of Wotton occupation "gardener" , abode Daking?, father John Chennell occ Labourer
to
Mary Ann Stilwell, spinster, servant, abode Wotton father John Stilwell occ labourer.
Witnesses John & Jane Stilwell.
John
edit 14.12pm there is a Chennell/Stilwell birth in 1864 so not your John but it might narrow down parentage of other John's born c1837/8
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It all got too complicated for me yesterday, so I gave up ;D
There was more than one John baptized at Ockley
There was also a John Chennel bap 2 July 1837
Parents John and Jane
Abode Capel
father Labourer
A burial at Ockley, 5 January 1837
John Chennell
age 32
abode Watton
Could he have been a son of Edward and Hannah? :-\
In the later census there is a John Chennell born Capel circa 1838, living in Dorking, and married to Mary Ann.
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It all got too complicated for me yesterday, so I gave up ;D
The same happened to me today :D
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Greetings, and a warm welcome to Rootschat.
The General Register Office (GRO) has the birth registration:
CHENNEL John, Dec qtr 1837 Horsham vol 7 p275, mmn BENNETT
Warnham was in the Horsham Registration District.
Throwing this marriage into the mix
John Chennell & Sarah Bennett 7.4.1836 St Martin's in the Field. Image on An*
John
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Hello all, and many thanks for all the potential leads, and will look at these. However was looking back to John Chennell's origins and was wondering how he, as a 3 year old, came to be an apparent son of what were 55 years olds (Edward & Hannah), as this would seem pretty unlikely, so started wondering if he had been adopted. So if he were originally from Warnham, it's possible that his mother died when he was very young, and indeed there is a 19 year old Emma Chennell buried in Warnham in 1839 who could possibly!! be his original mother. Not sure about the father!? Maybe a stretch but, maybe her maiden name could have been Bennett?.
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I assume you don't have his marriage certificate as that should name his father then you would know which baptisms/birth registrations you should be considering.
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Hello Brian
Welcome from me
For the back burner
Warnham ,St Margaret`s
John Channel ?
30 Mar 1834
Son of George and Hannah Channel
Dad Labourer
omega
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Throwing this marriage into the mix
John Chennell & Sarah Bennett 7.4.1836 St Martin's in the Field. Image on An*
But that marriage was at St James Westminster (or St James Piccadilly if you prefer ;D )
See Reply #5
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Throwing this marriage into the mix
John Chennell & Sarah Bennett 7.4.1836 St Martin's in the Field. Image on An*
But that marriage was at St James Westminster (or St James Piccadilly if you prefer ;D )
See Reply #5
Sorry Jon , not been my best day,
John
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Thanks again for the help with this. I'm currently following up my hunch that John Chennell may have been adopted but I'll also order that birth certificate that was found with mother Bennett as that provide some insight.
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I have asked before but you have not responded, do you have the marriage certificate for John Chennel as that should name his father.
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Hi Rosie, well I've just ordered it today so I'll see what that throws up. I guess it'll either clarify things, or possibly sow even more confusion.!
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It could add to the confusion, it is a shame that only the marriage licence is online. Let us know when it arrives, I do hope it helps.
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It could add to the confusion, it is a shame that only the marriage licence is online.
Marriage is said to have been at St Peter's Church, Eaton Square, Pimlico.
Ancestry say they have marriages for St Peter, 1851-1883. But when you look at the images they are marriages at St Matthew, Great Peter Street ???
The Westminster records were until recently on findmypast.
All images have been removed, but transcripts remain. The Chennell-Linegar marriage is indexed on there, but I don't know whether fathers' names have been included among the details.
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The Westminster records were until recently on findmypast.
All images have been removed, but transcripts remain. The Chennell-Linegar marriage is indexed on there, but I don't know whether fathers' names have been included among the details.
Have just had a look and there is no father's name included in the Index.
Pheno
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Thanks Pheno.
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Re the 1836 Chennell-Bennett marriage in Westminster.
Another marriage!
26 May 1856, St Mary Lambeth
William Davey, Widower, Tailor
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Sarah Chennell, Widow, father Richard Bennett (decd), Surveyor?
Both of full age, residence Lambeth.
I've had a struggle to pin them down, but believe this could be William in 1851 in St George Hanover Square
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGTD-XZK
He is a Tailor (Master), age 50, born Devon, married to Elizabeth, 46. Living Wilton Road
A death in St George H Sq in 1854, Elizabeth Davey, age 50
Can't find William (and Sarah) in 1861, they may be lost if in St George. The whole Belgrave sub-dist is lost.
That is where I think they are in 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBXM-FVV
piece 106 folio 11 page 15
2 Wilton Road
William Davey Head 66 Tailor Devon Kenton
Sarah Davey Wife 57 Bucks Horton
George Davey Son 45 Middlesex Soho
The Buckinghamshire Baptism Index has a baptism
1805, Horton
Sarah Bennett
Parents Richard + Hannah
Was not Eliza Linegar, the wife of John Chennell, from Horton? A strange coincidence!
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Eliza Chennell is born Horton circa 1841 in the census returns.
This might be her in 1861 with her parents John and Elizabeth Linegar in Horton, Bucks
Age 20, born Horton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7J5-JN4
Horton was in Eton registration district
A possible birth reg?:
LINEGAR, ELIZA
Mother's Maiden Surname: BENNETT
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in ETON UNION BUCKS Volume 06 Page 358
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Could John Chennell born Warnham, and Eliza Linegar born Horton have been cousins?
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26 May 1856, St Mary Lambeth
William Davey
+
Sarah Chennell
Image is on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99XW-WSS6?cc=2475028
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Yes according to my Tree so far John Chennell, who worked at Windsor and seems to be from Warnham (B;1837/8), was married to Eliza Linegar from Horton. I haven't got any further down the line beyond Eliza Linegar either, as yet - no Hints anyway!
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A burial at Ockley, 5 January 1837
John Chennell
age 32
abode Watton
No, never trust ancestry!
That burial was 5 January 1838
Crikey!
Was the death registered on the last day of 1837?
CHENNELL, JOHN
Age at Death (in years): 33
GRO Reference: 1837 D Quarter in DORKING Volume 04 Page 56
With that Watton abode, it could be that it was John married to Sarah who died, not the John married to Jane!
On the other hand, it might be neither!
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. I haven't got any further down the line beyond Eliza Linegar either, as yet - no Hints anyway!
Hi
I think it's time to start on the Linegar family! You may be able to tie them in with Sarah Bennett (who just may be the mother of your John Chennell!)
Complicated case!
John
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It wasn't John Chennell married to Jane who died at the end of 1837
They had a daughter Jane baptized 2 June 1839 at Ockley
Abode Capel, father Labourer
Here is a widowed John with three children, including Jane, living Capel in 1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGK6-89R
Were they in Capel in 1841? Yet to see them.
So it is quite likely that it was Brian's ancestor John who lost his father just after he was born.
In Wotton, Surrey 1841 there is a 3 year old John Chennell living with Edward Chennell 55 and Elizabeth Chennell 55 and Eliza 15 and Martha 13. They are all born in county except John and Edward. HO 107/1081/3/20 Pg6
Yes, that could be him in Wotton. With his grandparents. It would make sense.
One thing though, it's Hannah Chennell, 55, rather than Elizabeth.
Image, not the greatest, here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-13G5-VDFM
Baptism at Okewood, Surrey, 3 Feb 1805
John, the son of Edward and Hannah Chennell
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J33C-CTT
That would make a good match with age on death on the 1837/8 records.
Where is Sarah in 1841 and 1851? :-\
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Yes the 1841 census image I've seen via Ancestry seems more distinct. This does seem to suggest that "my" John Chennell was adopted, though i did wonder how he got from his original family to his adopted one, but I guess in those days adoptees may well have stayed within the family (as suggested above), and i also suppose then they were not really registered as adopted in any way.
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In Wotton, Surrey 1841 there is a 3 year old John Chennell living with Edward Chennell 55 and Elizabeth Chennell 55 and Eliza 15 and Martha 13. They are all born in county except John and Edward. HO 107/1081/3/20 Pg6
Yes, that could be him in Wotton. With his grandparents. It would make sense.
One thing though, it's Hannah Chennell, 55, rather than Elizabeth.
I can't blame the image just my brain. I've really no idea why I wrote Elizabeth!
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So i've now got the Birth Certificate for John Chennel (one L ) registered 29 Dec 1837 at Warnham (Horsham). Father is John Chennel and mother's maiden name is Sarah Bennett. Sooooo, need to think about this again and see where it gets me..
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What is his father John's occupation on the birth registration.
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Gardener...
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Thank you, That seems to fit then ;D
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Kia ora Brian
I know your post is old but if you are working on the Chennell's further back give me a nod. I have quite a lot of info on them including numerous wills. If you sent me a private email that would be best.
Nga mihi
Bronwen
Aotearoa