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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: stanner73 on Monday 05 October 20 19:16 BST (UK)

Title: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: stanner73 on Monday 05 October 20 19:16 BST (UK)
Looking for help locating a death for Mary Ann Hinton.
She was born 1856 in Chelsham as Mary Ann Matthews
She married James Henry Hinton in 1879.
I can find her up to the 1911 census but can find no death for her.

James Henry Hinton died in 1921, but there is no gravestone for him

One hint I did find was that she possibly died in 1912 and maybe in Kent (but I don't know why she would be located there).

Any help would be really appreciated
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 05 October 20 21:09 BST (UK)
They were in Kent (Bromley RD)  in 1901 but in Surrey 1911 (Godstone RD).  Is this James death reg? 

Deaths March qtr 1921   
Hinton    James    69    Reigate    2a   233

In the absence of a death under Hinton - you may want to perhaps have a look at this marriage.  Mary would have been 68/69 at the time so it's a bit of a long shot

Marriages March qtr 1925   
 
Mary A Hinton/Amos J Taylor    Croydon    2a   561      
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 05 October 20 21:32 BST (UK)
Amos John and Mary Ann Taylor are at Little Lake Farm Cottage, Reigate on 1935 electoral register

At Little Lake Cottage, Reigate in the same year are Charles Ruben and Florence Louisa May Hinton. I believe Charles is James and Mary's son?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 05 October 20 21:42 BST (UK)
Quote
I believe Charles is James and Mary's son?

He certainly is - good find Mabel  ;D

Looks like she did re-marry in 1925 so we are looking for a death from 1935 onwards in Surrey.  Mary Ann was around 80 in 1935

Reigate came under Surrey North Eastern RD from 1934

Mary A Taylor  aged 83 Dec qtr 1938  Surrey North eastern  Volume 2a Page 155

Mary A Taylor aged 82 June qtr 1936  Surrey North eastern   Volume 2a  Page 111
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 05 October 20 21:54 BST (UK)
My money is on the 1936 death

1937 Amos John is at the same address on the electoral register with an Eliza Elizabeth Taylor. There's a marriage between an Amos T Taylor and Eliza E Mitchell in Horsham, Q2 1937, which matches a tree on Ancestry and pictures of the address

There again, this all needs to be checked more carefully - Amos is a fair deal younger than Mary Ann, so we could have different generations with the same name here

Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 05 October 20 21:59 BST (UK)
Same set up in 1939 but without Mary.   
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 05 October 20 22:11 BST (UK)
Death for Amos

Amos J Taylor aged 77 March qtr 1953  Horsham  Volume 5h  Page 819
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: Pero on Tuesday 06 October 20 13:26 BST (UK)
Hello.

Just where are you getting your information from. Is it from trees on Ancestry?.

You say that Mary Ann Matthews married James Henry Hinton 1879. Where did you see the name Henry. Was it on a marriage on a tree on Ancestry. No mention of James Henry Hinton on the marriage certificate or in the marriage index or in the death index for 1921

Have you got the 1851 James Hinton's birth certificate.

James Hinton was a widower in 1920.

Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews) never did not marry again.

Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:44 BST (UK)
Pero

How do you know James Hinton was a widower in 1920?

If he was - where & when did Mary die between 1911 - 1920?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 06 October 20 18:40 BST (UK)
This appears to be James birth reg - he was b Crux Easton which came under Kingsclere

Births March qtr 1851
James Hinton Kingsclere 7 113

Marriage

Marriages December qtr 1879   
James Hinton/Mary Ann Matthews  Godstone 2a   312   

Death

Deaths March qtr 1921   
Hinton    James    69    Reigate    2a   233

In all cases he does not have a second christian name nor does a middle name appear on any census entry

James & Mary had a son - James Henry born September qtr 1880 Godstone.  Has some confusion arisen with the father/son names?

I think Mary's death may possibly have been mistranscribed as Henton

Mary A Henton aged 57  March qtr 1913 Epsom   2a 15  ( would have expected death to be in the Godstone RD)

 
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: johnhood on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:08 BST (UK)
Just one comment, when 3 of the children of James & Mary Ann marry they record their father as James HENRY Hinton, ie James Henry jnr m 1908, Sarah m 1907 & Alice Maud m 1908.

John
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:13 BST (UK)
Good find John.  For all 3 children to show a middle name there must have been something known in the family
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: stanner73 on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:18 BST (UK)
Many thanks for all the responses, I'll have to check back through my information whether he did indeed have the middle name Henry. I do have a copy of his sons James' marriage certificate and father is definitely listed as James Henry Hinton
Taking another look at James' death certificate it does appear that Mary was still very much alive as she was the informant and present at the time.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:34 BST (UK)
Quote
Taking another look at James' death certificate it does appear that Mary was still very much alive as she was the informant and present at the time.

You didn't tell us that in your opening post.  Does the 1921 death cert definitely show her as wife/widow?

If it does then it makes the 1925 marriage possible.  Have just found a Mary A Henton living in the Epsom RD in 1911.  Checking her back to 1901 she hasn't aged!!  Nor has her husband.  I think the 1913 death is hers and not Mary Ann Hinton

1901 aged 43 born Sutton Surrey
1911   43 born Sutton Surrey

1901

Edward Henton    44 b Horsham
Mary A  43 b Sutton
Thomas Kenyon  5
John Duthie    44
Frederick Cartwright    58
RG13 Piece 580 Folio 72 Page 11

EDIT

Just to demonstrate the difference one letter can make.  Edward HENTON married Mary Ann HILTON😳


Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: johnhood on Tuesday 06 October 20 19:42 BST (UK)
Comment, when Charles Reuben Hinton marries in 1922 his cert does not record father as deceased, I know the question may not have been asked though.

John
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: johnhood on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:01 BST (UK)
Carole going by the birth ref you found we probably can go back further now.

HINTON, JAMES       mother's maiden name BISHOP 
GRO Reference: 1851  M Quarter in KINGSCLERE  Volume 07  Page 113

Possible marriage

Marriages Dec 1843   
BISHOP    Louisa        Kingsclere    7   219    
Hinton    Charles        Kingsclere    7   219    

1851 census ref
Piece:   1684
Folio:   71
Page Number:   1

John
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: johnhood on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:05 BST (UK)
1861 census ref

Piece:   717
Folio:   8
Page Number:   10

John
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: johnhood on Tuesday 06 October 20 20:32 BST (UK)
Further info if needed.

Amos John Taylor is with his wife Emily in 1922 electoral reg at Tollsworth Cottages
Emily dies 1923
Amos J Taylor marries Mary A Hinton 1925
Amos John & Mary Ann  spring electoral reg 1926 at Tollsworth Cottages
Mary Ann dies 1936

Good work everyone who took part, hope this all falls into place for you stanner53.

John

added Charles Reuben Hinton at Tollsworth Cottages in 1924.
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 06 October 20 22:58 BST (UK)
I think the biggest factor here is the presence of the Hinton son Charles Reuben in the same household as Amos Taylor & wife Mary Ann on electoral registers and on the 1939 register as found in earlier replies #2 #5 & #17

Buying a copy of the 1925 marriage cert should confirm if her fathers surname was Matthews

Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 06 October 20 23:43 BST (UK)
Pero

To answer your questions

Although all registers show him as James Hinton - 3 of his childrenís marriage certs refer to him as James Henry

James died in 1921 and Mary Ann reported his death which rules out your statement that James was a widower in 1920

It is looking increasingly likely that Mary Ann remarried in 1925 to Amos Taylor, a widower, who was considerably younger than her which would also rule out your statement that Mary Ann never remarried

Son Charles Reuben Hinton married in 1922 to Florence L W Kenward and the couple are found on ERís & the 1939 register living with Amos Taylor

Mary Ann died 1936 and Amos Taylor then married Eliza Elizabeth Mitchell

Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: johnhood on Wednesday 07 October 20 09:57 BST (UK)
Pero, Carole has I believe answered your questions very graciously and comprehensively. It would be a good gesture to respond (even if you think the they are incorrect). Many a time for all of us some surprising research by other's brings about results we are not expecting, but this only adds and enriches our trees.

Have a good day.

John
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 07 October 20 11:34 BST (UK)
all registers show him as James Hinton

That generally means he was James Hinton!

3 of his childrenís marriage certs refer to him as James Henry

That probably means that James had a son called James Henry and some of James' children (mistakenly) thought that their father was also James Henry

Happened all the time, we all have examples of it, surely?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 07 October 20 13:05 BST (UK)
Quote
That probably means that James had a son called James Henry and some of James' children (mistakenly) thought that their father was also James Henry

From my reply #9

Quote
James & Mary had a son - James Henry born September qtr 1880 Godstone.  Has some confusion arisen with the father/son names?

It was simply an explanation of where Stanner may have seen the middle name of Henry.  Question was asked by Pero
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 07 October 20 13:44 BST (UK)
Fair enough, Carole!

Charles Reuben Hinton at Tollsworth Cottages in 1924.

James Hinton and Mary Ann Hinton likely at 12 Portland Cottages, Warlingham (an old haunt) in 1918 and 1919
Not there 1920
James Hinton and Charles Reuben Hinton at Tollsworth Cottages, Chaldon, in 1920
Charles Reuben Hinton at Tollsworth Cottages in 1921
Yes, as said, Amos John Taylor and Emily Taylor at Tollsworth Cottages, same time.

But Mary Ann Hinton not listed? Odd!
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 07 October 20 15:49 BST (UK)
Please see Mabelís reply #2
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 07 October 20 16:33 BST (UK)
Please see Mabelís reply #2

I have no idea if that is directed at me
If so, what has it got to do with my last post about ERs 1918-1921 ?
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 07 October 20 16:54 BST (UK)
To make myself clearer!

Taking another look at James' death certificate it does appear that Mary was still very much alive as she was the informant and present at the time.

James Hinton and Charles Reuben Hinton at Tollsworth Cottages, Chaldon, in 1920
Charles Reuben Hinton at Tollsworth Cottages in 1921
But Mary Ann Hinton not listed? Odd!

Like I said, odd!
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 07 October 20 17:27 BST (UK)
Quote
I have no idea if that is directed at me
If so, what has it got to do with my last post about ERs 1918-1921 ?

Quote
To make myself clearer!

I think we all got it the first time thank you.

My reference to Mabel's reply was just by way of additional confirmation of the link between Amos Taylor & Charles Reuben Hinton because it was early on in the post  - but seems like I touched a nerve somewhere??
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: jonw65 on Wednesday 07 October 20 18:22 BST (UK)
Hi Carole
My nerves are fine thank you.
I have read the whole thread, honestly! I am sure we all have.

I promise that I will be more careful not to irritate you in future.
Take care
John
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: stanner73 on Thursday 08 October 20 19:52 BST (UK)
Thank you to all of you for taking the time for looking at this for me.
I hadn't realised at the time of posting that Mary had registered James' death as it has been a long time since i have been able to access my paper copies as they were in storage.
Whilst Hinton is not a common surname it is very easy to mis-transcribe.
Since my original post, and again thanks for all the hints, I've managed to place Charles Reuben Hinton and Amos Taylor at Tollsworth Cottages 1922-1925
I'll also look at the other children to see if Mary resided with them during that period and order a marriage certificate for her to check her father was Mathews
many thanks again
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: johnhood on Thursday 08 October 20 20:42 BST (UK)
stanner73, Please do order the marriage cert for Mary to Amos and share the results as we would all love to put this to bed .

Thanks

John
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: stanner73 on Sunday 11 October 20 19:22 BST (UK)
Still awaiting the marriage certificate, but the 1936 death is not my ancestor
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: stanner73 on Saturday 17 October 20 20:02 BST (UK)
The marriage certificate has arrived and shows Mary Ann Hinton marrying Amos John Taylor 31/01/1925 in Croydon. Mary's father listed as James Matthews so it's definitely the right person.
Now just to find out when she died and where she was after James' death in 1921 and the marriage in 1925. Death, sometime after the 1935 Surrey Electoral Record and the 1937 Surrey Electoral Record
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: johnhood on Saturday 17 October 20 20:27 BST (UK)
Quote
I believe Charles is James and Mary's son?

He certainly is - good find Mabel  ;D

Looks like she did re-marry in 1925 so we are looking for a death from 1935 onwards in Surrey.  Mary Ann was around 80 in 1935

Reigate came under Surrey North Eastern RD from 1934

Glad the marriage certificate was positive. Is not the 1936 death a strong possibility.

John

Mary A Taylor  aged 83 Dec qtr 1938  Surrey North eastern  Volume 2a Page 155

Mary A Taylor aged 82 June qtr 1936  Surrey North eastern   Volume 2a  Page 111
Title: Re: Mary Ann Hinton (nee Matthews)
Post by: stanner73 on Sunday 18 October 20 19:59 BST (UK)
I have the 1936 certificate and it's definitely not her. But she must have died before 1937 as she is not listed with Amos.