RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: WythenshaweWench on Tuesday 06 October 20 15:18 BST (UK)
-
Hi all
I have 2 ancestors who were both born in New Jersey at “Saint James-Catholic, Newark, Essex, New Jersey”
• Florence Scaife ~ 23rd July 1893
• Jane Scaife ~ 22nd June 1894
(Mother : Johanna Scaife b1873 in Ireland (formerly Hennessy) She’s sometimes known as ‘Annie’)
(Father : Joseph Scaife b1870 in Manchester)
Their parents were married in Tipperary on July 17th, 1890, and then had son John in June 1891 in Ireland, so they must have gone to USA between June 1891 and July 1893.
I can’t find anything on shipping records that I look at in FindMyPast and Ancestry (I currently have accounts for both)
I KNOW Johanna was back in the UK in Manchester (as Annie) in 1901 as I’ve found her and the children on the census in Manchester (without Joseph).
Can anyone help me find when they went out and when they came back?
-
I'll be interested in replies. I have an Irish-born couple who had 2 sons born U.S. late 1860's. They were in Lancashire from 1871.
-
I'll be interested in replies. I have an Irish-born couple who had 2 sons born U.S. late 1860's. They were in Lancashire from 1871.
UK & Ireland return passenger lists cover 1878 - 1961, so not early enough sadly for your Irish couple :-\
Sandra
-
Not many with that surname - Joseph Scaife born 1870 and aged 21 years
Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland to New York on City of Berlin.23 January 1891
Sandra
-
Hi Sandra
Many thanks for that. Was he on his own, or did he have his wife and child (John, aged 1) with him?
Or was it the practice to only note the main person in the party?
Can you see them returning to the UK? They would have had 2 young daughters with them, but I can’t see them anywhere...
I’d love to know why they went out there, where they lived and what his job was - he was a merchant seaman and I have many of his ship records, but they’re all after 1902, nothing this early...
Thanks again
Jayne x
-
Sorry Jane, that was the only entry for a Joseph Scaife on his own.
If he was a merchant seaman, perhaps he got social travel dispensation for his family. Never heard of that before but maybe possible.
Sandra
-
Nothing that I could see for the girls or Johanna returning but not all passenger lists were saved.
Sandra
-
I had a little look in the American newspapers online to see if I could see anything by those names but nothing turned up unfortunately.
-
I have 2 ancestors who were both born in New Jersey at “Saint James-Catholic, Newark, Essex, New Jersey”
That would seem to be baptisms rather than birth records-
Florence- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FCKH-4P1
Jane- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FZ37-KJ5
N.J. 1895 State Census- https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2659407
-
I KNOW Johanna was back in the UK in Manchester (as Annie) in 1901 as I’ve found her and the children on the census in Manchester (without Joseph).
and with no other children born in the US or anywhere else.
------------
and this:
Newark City Directory
1893, 1894, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1900, 1901
no Scaife or Scafe
1895
Joseph Scaife, laborer, home at 54 Downing
-
Florence birth registration Florence Shief father Joseph, mother Annie born 23 July 1893.
Baptized at St James 26th July.
I didn't find Jane but her baptism record shows born 3 August 1894 baptized 12th August 1894
-
I have 2 ancestors who were both born in New Jersey at “Saint James-Catholic, Newark, Essex, New Jersey”
That would seem to be baptisms rather than birth records-
Florence- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FCKH-4P1
Jane- https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FZ37-KJ5
N.J. 1895 State Census- https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/2659407
Hiya
Thanks aghadowey, but the birthdate I've given for Florence is correct - if you look at the link you've given, it states BIRTHDATE 23rd July 1893, CHRISTENING, 26th July 1893
Jane's is different to what I had (which I took from a divorce record of Joseph's - I suppose he could have given her DOB incorrectly, lol)...
Jayne xxx
-
------------
and this:
Newark City Directory
1893, 1894, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1900, 1901
no Scaife or Scafe
1895
Joseph Scaife, laborer, home at 54 Downing
[/quote]
Hiya
Thanks for that! Is it possible you could tell me where you got this from?
Was 54 Downing in a particular part of the city?
I wonder if there's an old map showing where?
Jayne xx
-
Thanks aghadowey, but the birthdate I've given for Florence is correct - if you look at the link you've given, it states BIRTHDATE 23rd July 1893, CHRISTENING, 26th July 1893
My point is that the details from your initial post for the 2 girls are BAPTISMAL RECORDS not birth registrations (the first clue being that a birth certificate will not show religious information such as date and place of baptism).
-
Was 54 Downing in a particular part of the city?
I wonder if there's an old map showing where?
Current Google Map shows the location of 54 Downing St. in Newark- streetview will show you what it looks like now.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@40.7304684,-74.1597105,17z
https://njpropertyrecords.com/property/0714_2000_35
-
Hiya
Thanks for that! Is it possible you could tell me where you got this from?
Was 54 Downing in a particular part of the city?
I wonder if there's an old map showing where?
Jayne xx
The Newark City Directories are at ancestry.com.
-----------
Google "old maps of Newark" to find:
old maps of Newark, including 1890 and 1904
https://mapmaker.rutgers.edu/NEWARK/oldNewark.html
54 Downing was in Ward 5 in 1890 and 1904, look for the big 5 on the map in a green shaded area (Ward 5). It runs between Jackson and Jefferson, one block east (our right) of Ferry St. Jefferson isn't marked on the 1904 map.
-----------
start at https://stevemorse.org/ and pick unified census from the list, then set 1900 at the top of the page, fill in the address and cross streets to get the ED that included 54 Downing.
Ward 5 of Newark in the 1900 Census is here:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZF9-HLT?wc=9B7K-7MX%3A1030550301%2C1031589101%2C1033991701&cc=1325221
I didn't find 54 Downing, but 56 was a 3 family home, all renting. 2 Irish families and an English woman, 34, widowed. The area looks working class, many Irish but not all Irish.
-----------
Google "St James Catholic Church, Newark" to get:
St James Catholic Church is still at 142 Jefferson, a 7 minute walk from 54 Downing.
https://www.rcan.org/st-james-parish-newark