RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Kenneal67 on Wednesday 14 October 20 09:55 BST (UK)
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Cant think where else to post this. How would I locate the executors of an estate / death in England? I am fairly sure the person would have been intestate and died in a mental hospital in 1980. I have been in touch with the hospital who haven't been too helpful.
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Hospitals will have restrictions on releasing info. Even if the records have been deposited at an archives the usual rule of thumb is that info less than 100 years old is not released.
The starting point would be to check on https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills to see if there was anything on the probate calendar for the deceased's estate.
If the entry mentions probate then there was a will and if it just says administration then no will but a grant of admin was issued.
If you find an entry then a copy of the will/grant of admin can be ordered at a cost of £1.50.
That should give you the names and addresses (at that time) of the executors.
Do bear in mind that if goes back to 1980, there is a high chance the addresses may be out of date in the ensuing 40 years (we are on our 10th address since then!) and/or the executors may have died in the meantime.
Rootschat has a policy of not allowing discussion /help with tracing living people, so we wouldn't be able to help with specifics of trying to find and contact any executors.
Boo
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Thanks Boo,
the probate search is a blank.
I have spoken with the hospital and they said if i cant find the executors then no chance of anything other than basic info under the 100 year rule
Looks like that's the end of it unfortunately.
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If there's been no grant of probate (which may not have been in 1980!), you could try the Bona Vacantia list of unclaimed estates
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/bona-vacantia
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If there's been no grant of probate (which may not have been in 1980!), you could try the Bona Vacantia list of unclaimed estates
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/bona-vacantia
Never thought of that but the guy was buried in the same grave as his wife who died 8 years prior, not sure if that has any relevance.
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Administration of the estate (or probate if there was a will) would only be necessary if the person had assets to pass on that required it. They may have had little, if anything, to leave.
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Administration of the estate (or probate if there was a will) would only be necessary if the person had assets to pass on that required it. They may have had little, if anything, to leave.
After 35 ish years in a mental hospital probably very little.
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Did the couple have any children? Have you considered getting the death certificate? However the death certificate may only show the informant as a staff member of the mental hospital.
Did you try to find any death notice in a relevant paper?
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If you post the details I am happy to look to see if there is anything in the old newspapers
Boo
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Arthur Smith died 1980, in 1939 register he was a patient in Wadsley park Mental Hospital
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Arthur Smith died 1980, in 1939 register he was a patient in Wadsley park Mental Hospital
Sheffield? Where/when was he buried?
Boo
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Wisewood cemetery Dec 18th 1980
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Have you explored the graves registers on Family Search for this cemetery? There were 3 burials in that grave and the record shows the name and address of the grave owner (who took over the ownership in 1972 at the time Arthur's wife was buried).
I think I am ok to give you the link to the entry, but just in case the grave owner is still alive we can't discuss the name or address in here.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9F6-HN7X?i=787&cat=969910
Will see if I can find anything in newspapers.
Boo
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Have you explored the graves registers on Family Search for this cemetery? There were 3 burials in that grave and the record shows the name and address of the grave owner (who took over the ownership in 1972 at the time Arthur's wife was buried).
I think I am ok to give you the link to the entry, but just in case the grave owner is still alive we can't discuss the name or address in here.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9F6-HN7X?i=787&cat=969910
Will see if I can find anything in newspapers.
Boo
Thanks Boo
All children of Arthur Smith are dead apart from one daughter in her 90's.
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Sorry, I can't seem to find any Sheffield area newspapers online for this time frame.
Boo
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Sorry, I can't seem to find any Sheffield area newspapers online for this time frame.
Boo
Thanks for looking
His war records are awol too and probably got bombed in WWII
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Wisewood cemetery Dec 18th 1980
SMITH, Arthur (Retired, age 83).
Died at Middlewood Hospital Sheffield; Buried on December 18, 1980 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 6651, Section K of Wisewood Cemetery, Sheffield.
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Wisewood cemetery Dec 18th 1980
SMITH, Arthur (Retired, age 83).
Died at Middlewood Hospital Sheffield; Buried on December 18, 1980 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 6651, Section K of Wisewood Cemetery, Sheffield.
Thanks Rosie
We have that and also in the same grave is his wife Florence 1972 and a grandson 1953.
I was trying to find more info about Arthur from the hospital but as we dont know the executors they wont tell us much
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You may like to look at the below and make contact re newspaper search
https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/libraries-archives/access-archives-local-studies-library/collections/newspapers
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If there wasn't a probate process, there won't be any executors .
Only other thing I can think of is to contact the cemetery to ask if they have a burial order book which may show who arranged the funeral, or who the funeral directors were - who may or my not be able to tell you who arranged the funeral.
Sorry we couldn't help, maybe as his n.o.k. if you get the daughter's permission to apply to the hospital on her behalf they 'may' be able to help?
Boo
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If there wasn't a probate process, there won't be any executors .
Only other thing I can think of is to contact the cemetery to ask if they have a burial order book which may show who arranged the funeral, or who the funeral directors were - who may or my not be able to tell you who arranged the funeral.
Sorry we couldn't help, maybe as his n.o.k. if you get the daughter's permission to apply to the hospital on her behalf they 'may' be able to help?
Boo
Hi Boo
I am searching on her behalf. She is in her 90's and knew virtually nothing about her father as he spent a huge part of his life in the hospital and now in her final years she is looking to find out who he was and why he was in there etc. Her mother never spoke about him, yet they obviously remained married and are buried in the same grave.
The person I spoke with at the hospital wasn't terrible interested , denied receiving my email (twice) and I felt as if I had inconvenienced them somewhat.
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That's their way of stonewalling you. Keep denying they received anything in the hope that you will give up.
Write a letter to the top man/woman and see if that works. Make it clear that you are enquiring on his 90 year old daughter's behalf and she would like to know the reason why he was there.
Attach copies of the emails that you sent, provided you still have them.
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That's their way of stonewalling you. Keep denying they received anything in the hope that you will give up.
Write a letter to the top man/woman and see if that works. Make it clear that you are enquiring on his 90 year old daughter's behalf and she would like to know the reason why he was there.
Attach copies of the emails that you sent, provided you still have them.
They said we could have admission date death date and a photo if one existed, other than that under the 100 year rule it would require permission from any executors and it seems there may not be any.
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When his wife Florence died, were there any executors?
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When his wife Florence died, were there any executors?
I cant find any will / probate for her either
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Wisewood cemetery Dec 18th 1980
SMITH, Arthur (Retired, age 83).
Died at Middlewood Hospital Sheffield; Buried on December 18, 1980 in Consecrated ground;
Grave Number 6651, Section K of Wisewood Cemetery, Sheffield.
Thanks Rosie
We have that and also in the same grave is his wife Florence 1972 and a grandson 1953.
I was trying to find more info about Arthur from the hospital but as we dont know the executors they wont tell us much
I was just posting it for those trying to help you ;D
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Thank you Rosie :D :D :D :D
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Try again like I said in my earlier post. Say that you cannot find any record of executors, he left no will and in view of that, could they consider releasing the information to his daughter who is 90 years old and may not be around for much longer. She is the only immediate next of kin left.
If they are still stubborn, then I'm afraid there isn't much else you can do. :(
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Was it one of her older brothers who arranged the burial?
Does she know who currently 'owns' the grave?
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Was it one of her older brothers who arranged the burial?
Does she know who currently 'owns' the grave?
She knows nothing and the rest of her siblings are now dead and gone.
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Administration of the estate (or probate if there was a will) would only be necessary if the person had assets to pass on that required it. They may have had little, if anything, to leave.
This is correct, and some years ago I was named as executor in just such a will, but the assets were below the minimum where probate was required. There was enough to pay for the funeral and other expenses, but little left over after I had paid all the bills. I was surprised that there was going to be no official record of all this, but a solicitor friend assured me that it was fine.
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That's their way of stonewalling you. Keep denying they received anything in the hope that you will give up.
Write a letter to the top man/woman and see if that works. Make it clear that you are enquiring on his 90 year old daughter's behalf and she would like to know the reason why he was there.
Attach copies of the emails that you sent, provided you still have them.
They said we could have admission date death date and a photo if one existed, other than that under the 100 year rule it would require permission from any executors and it seems there may not be any.
37. The Access to Health Records Act (AHRA) 1990 provides certain individuals with a
right of access to the health records of a deceased individual. These individuals are
defined under Section 3(1)(f) of that Act as, ‘the patient’s personal representative and
any person who may have a claim arising out of the patient’s death’. A personal
representative is the executor or administrator of the deceased person’s estate.
The Administrator is usually nearest Next of Kin authorised (after Swearing) either at the Probate Registry or before the Asset holder's Solicitor.
Mark