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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Buckinghamshire => England => Buckinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: nong43 on Wednesday 14 October 20 17:54 BST (UK)

Title: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: nong43 on Wednesday 14 October 20 17:54 BST (UK)
Hello folks,

This is going to look like it should be in the Oxfordshire lookup requests, but please bear with me.
I have an ancestor, Damaris KING, whose origins I am researching. Damaris, not a common name, so you'd think it'd be fairly easy...

...err, no there appear to be two of them, both from eastern Oxfordshire (along the border with Bucks). One was baptised in Chinnor in 1671 to Thomas, son of Richard (mother presumed to be Margaret BIGG), the other in South Weston in 1676 to Thomas and Elizabeth. One of them married my ancestor Thomas NEWELL by licence in Hughenden in 1704. One of them also posted a marriage bond in Henton (near Chinnor) in 1698 naming their spouse as a Thomas CARY of Bledlow. Perhaps both marriages were to the same Damaris.

This is what I'm trying to work out, as the more I can find out the better chance I have of working out which Damaris is my ancestor. Oxfordshire FHS can't find any record of a burial for a Thomas CARY in the 1698-1704 date range, so I'm wondering if he did die, whether he was buried in Bucks. Or, alternatively, if he didn't, where he and his Damaris baptised any children (I'm hoping any children's names might give a clue who this Damaris's parents were, and, therefore, allow me to work out which Damaris is mine by eliminating one set of parents).

To this end, would somebody be able to look up the following:


Thanks in anticipation

Martin
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: bucksboy on Sunday 18 October 20 01:09 BST (UK)
Bledlow.

Baptism - 1702 - Thomas son of Thomas & Damaris Carie. Sep 19.
Baptism - 1708 - Edward son of Thomas & Damaris Carie. June 27.

Burial - Damarise Carey. widdow, pauper. 21 July 1717.

http://lanchbury.id.au/genealogy/bledlow1700.html

Steve. :)

Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 18 October 20 13:25 BST (UK)
1704 Marriage on FreeREG has Damaris of Chinnor, Oxon**., and Thos of West Wycombe.
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 18 October 20 13:35 BST (UK)
1704 Marriage on FreeREG has Damaris of Chinnor, Oxon**., and Thos of West Wycombe.

Phillimore's Marriage Registers has the marriage as 'by licence' The licence may have more information.

Gadget
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 18 October 20 13:57 BST (UK)
Oxford Diocese marriage bond index  lists only one Thomas Cary/Damaris King licence - in 1698, Damaris from Henton and  Thomas from Bledlow . I looked through by surname and parish. Maybe a missing entry or Phillimore is wrong.

Add -no Newell ilcence
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Vance Mead on Sunday 18 October 20 14:32 BST (UK)
Henton is a hamlet in Chinnor.
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 18 October 20 14:42 BST (UK)
Online trees  have these children for Damaris and Thomas Newell

1705 Damaris
1707 Thomas
1709 Ambrose
1710 Anne
1712 William
1714 John
1715 Elizabeth
1718 Henry
1732 Mary

and Damaris's death as 1743 Bledow. Thomas as 1748, Bledow.

ADD - if Thomas Cary had died, Damaris would have married as Damaris Cary not King
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: nong43 on Monday 19 October 20 14:32 BST (UK)
Thanks for your responses, everyone. I guess we can safely say that the two Damarises (Damares?) are two separate people.

Regarding marriage licences, do these show any more information than the indexes and if so, where are they kept?

Martin
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: nong43 on Monday 19 October 20 14:51 BST (UK)
Oxford Diocese marriage bond index  lists only one Thomas Cary/Damaris King licence - in 1698, Damaris from Henton and  Thomas from Bledlow . I looked through by surname and parish. Maybe a missing entry or Phillimore is wrong.

Add -no Newell ilcence

The Newell licence would have been for Hughenden. Mind you, isn't Hughenden covered by the Diocese of Oxford?

I seem to remember reading somewhere that a lot of people got married by licence at Hughenden because the vicar there was quite understanding re people's earlier circumstances. Has anyone else heard similar?

Martin
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Monday 19 October 20 14:51 BST (UK)
The marriage bonds that I've seen give more info than on the indexes and any conditions that should be met. Also signatures/seals.  They should be in the appropriate  Archives.

Gadget

Yes - Oxford Diocese
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Monday 19 October 20 14:55 BST (UK)
This might be relevant

https://www.oxford.anglican.org/tag/record-office/
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: nong43 on Monday 19 October 20 16:07 BST (UK)
The marriage bonds that I've seen give more info than on the indexes and any conditions that should be met. Also signatures/seals.  They should be in the appropriate  Archives.

Gadget

Yes - Oxford Diocese

Just been on the Buckinghamshire Archives website it appears that nothing to do with Damaris and Thomas Newell's licence has survived. Or, of course, as you said, Phillimore might be wrong.  :(

Martin
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Monday 19 October 20 16:46 BST (UK)
Are there any wills that might help?
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: nong43 on Monday 19 October 20 19:51 BST (UK)
No, nothing comes up for a Newell between 1740 and 1750.
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: nong43 on Tuesday 20 October 20 15:41 BST (UK)
The only possible thing I have to go on is naming conventions - the first daughter was usually named after her maternal grandmother...but the maternal grandmother of Damaris Newell (b. 1706) was either Margaret (if it's the 1671 Damaris) or Elizabeth (if it's the 1676 one). However, Margaret's mother was a Damari(a)s Stevens.
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 20 October 20 16:08 BST (UK)
Naming conventions aren't always followed strictly.  Damaris was the first baptism (20 Feb 1705)  of a child to them after the Sept 1704 marriage but, if it was Julian then it would be Feb 1706. Marriage would be correct.
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: nong43 on Tuesday 20 October 20 16:46 BST (UK)
Naming conventions aren't always followed strictly.  Damaris was the first baptism (20 Feb 1705)  of a child to them after the Sept 1704 marriage but, if it was Julian then it would be Feb 1706. Marriage would be correct.

True - they may have named their first daughter and son after their own grandparents as opposed to the children's - Thomas's father was an Ambrose* Newell, but his father was another Thomas.

I had forgotten that they were using the Julian Calendar in England back then, and that the year number changed on 25 March.  ;D

*Ambrose was a popular name with the Newells, possibly introduced to the family when Susan Bigges, daughter of an Ambrose Bigges and Margerie Stephens, married a Christopher Newell in 1590.
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 20 October 20 16:55 BST (UK)
Just  a thought - there are no Margarets on the baptism list that I found. However. there is an Elizabeth:


1705 Damaris
1707 Thomas
1709 Ambrose
1710 Anne
1712 William
1714 John
1715 Elizabeth
1718 Henry
1732 Mary

Do you have access to the baptisms to double check?
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: nong43 on Tuesday 20 October 20 17:07 BST (UK)
I have a list of Newell baptisms from BFHS for 1690-1790 which lists these baptisms in West Wycombe for Thomas and Damaris Newell:

20.02.1706. - Damaris
01.01.1708. - Thomas
07.12.1709. - Ambros [sic]
27.04.1712. - William
29.05.1714. - John
08.09.1718. - Henry

No other baptisms in Bucks to a Thomas and a Damaris. Probably none elsewhere, as she was in her 40s by 1718 (either 42 or 47, depending on which Damaris she was).
Title: Re: Marriage of Damaris KING (of Chinnor, Oxon) and Thomas CARY (of Bledlow)
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 20 October 20 17:26 BST (UK)
I've just checked tho and those are the ones that I have. I didn't specify a county , just in case.

The ones on trees are always a bit dodgy!!