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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jansel70 on Wednesday 14 October 20 21:16 BST (UK)

Title: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Wednesday 14 October 20 21:16 BST (UK)
There’s a missing 15 years of Daisy’s life that I am keen to find out out about.

Daisy Veronica Sketchley (daughter of James Sketchley and Annie Driver) was born Nov 1902 in Perth, and at age 14, married Owen Griffith Roberts also in Perth in August 1917. They had one child, Owen Ronald Roberts in June 1918.

They divorced in 1921 and there’s numerous reports of the case in WA newspapers in Trove from August to October of that year.

The next record I can find of Daisy is in the Aust. Electoral Rolls in Sydney in 1936 & 1937.

She died of TB in 1939 - in Prince Henry Hospital, Little Bay, Sydney. The death transcription shows she was also known as “Peggy Lamerts (maybe Lamerto). The informant on the DC was a ‘Hospital Clerk’.

It seems that she became estranged from the family after the divorce, and her son was bought up by her mother. It’s also possible that she partnered up with someone with the surname Lamerts/Lamerto or some similar sounding name, but I can’t nail down any likely candidates.

Would really appreciate any help or suggestions that might help to fill in these missing 15 years from when she was divorced in Perth in 1921 and re-appeared in Sydney in 1936.

Regards ….. Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: brigidmac on Thursday 15 October 20 00:43 BST (UK)
I dont know if it will help your sesrch but did you know that Daisy and Peggy are both used as short forms for Margaret

Good luck.
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 15 October 20 04:25 BST (UK)
What is on the death certificate that enables you to identify these two events to be for the same woman?

WA BDM marriage
ROBERTS   Owen   marr.     SKETCHLEY   Daisy   Perth   449   1917

NSW BDM death
853/1939   LAMERTO Peggy   parents James David / Annie    @ Redfern

How did this death attract your interest?

"..The next record I can find of Daisy is in the Aust. Electoral Rolls in Sydney in 1936 & 1937."
What name are you seeing on the electoral roll?
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: cupoflife on Thursday 15 October 20 04:54 BST (UK)
Death 3/3/1939
853/1939 Daisy Veronica ROBERTS; James David; Annie; Redfern
853/1939 Peggy LAMERTO; James David; Annie; Redfern
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 15 October 20 05:13 BST (UK)

https://easternsuburbsmemorialpark.worldsecuresystems.com/finding-loved-ones
Daisy Veronica ROBERTS  buried   7/03/1939   
ADDD - Anglican FM DDD, ADDD - Anglican FM DDD, Position 0451

You should contact the cemetery to see if there are other burials in this plot.


From the death certificate....can you please list all the information. It would be useful to see what else the informant knew.  Can you be sure to indicate if some headings are left blank.....shown as a dash...."unknown" is written.

How long had Daisy been in hospital / under treatment etc?
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: CassT on Thursday 15 October 20 05:13 BST (UK)
Hi The Botany (Easterns Suburbs)Cemetery Website records her burial
https://easternsuburbsmemorialpark.worldsecuresystems.com/finding-loved-ones

Daisy Veronica Roberts
07/03/1939  Buried
ADDD - Anglican FM DDD, ADDD - Anglican FM DDD, Position 0451

Maybe you could contact the Cemetery to see if anybody else is buried in the same plot

Cass

PS Wivenhoe  "great minds think alike"
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: majm on Thursday 15 October 20 05:36 BST (UK)
 :) :) :)

You both posted at the same time. 

Well Done to both.

JM
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: cupoflife on Thursday 15 October 20 06:27 BST (UK)
May be worth checking this chap?
NSW death 3114/1955 Victor Francis LAMERTO; 59YEARS; DARLINGHURST PADDINGTON

Several articles about Victor Francis Lamerto.... charged with murder but later discharged due to lack of crucial evidence a “Yellowish Gaberdine Overcoat”
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/103424698
... Lamerto is 33 years of age, a native of Russia. He has been in Australia since 1913, when he deserted a ship in Western Australia, and had been living at the same address as the murdered girl for nine months. He was an unemployed laborer.....

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206129992
SAVED BY LACK OF YELLOWISH GABERDINE OVERCOAT
RUSSIAN SPARED ORDEAL OF MURDER TRIAL
CORONER BAFFLED BY MYSTERY OF GIRL'S FIENDISH KILLING IN PARK
TWO WITNESSES IN CONFLICT
BECAUSE VICTOR  Francis Lamerto, or Januschevsky, does not possess a "yellowish gaberdine overcoat", the law no longer holds him as the man suspected of the crime of murder...

Several articles about the murder (and others about Victor Francis Lamerto, charged with uttering/possessing counterfeit coins)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/category/newspapers?keyword=%22VICTOR%20FRANCIS%20Lamerto%22&sortBy=dateAsc&startPos=60

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=-T-zDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT19&lpg=PT19&dq=%22VICTOR+FRANCIS+Lamerto%22&source=bl&ots=chkDhBhpXw&sig=ACfU3U3r6nLWNDBuYN1GV_iDhMA_KTfCwA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQi42I77XsAhWCXSsKHSnFCxIQ6AEwAnoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22VICTOR%20FRANCIS%20Lamerto%22&f=false
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Thursday 15 October 20 06:52 BST (UK)
Thanks to all the posts so far ... much appreciated.

To brigidmac:
"I dont know if it will help your search but did you know that Daisy and Peggy are both used as short forms for Margaret".
- I was aware of the use of Peggy for Margaret but not Daisy, so thanks for that.

To wivenhoe:
"What is on the death certificate that enables you to identify these two events to be for the same woman?"
- I don't have a formal DC. I have a full transcription from a NSW Transcription agent. The Index references (853/1939) are the same

"How did this death attract your interest?"
- I'm assisting a good friend with his family research. Daisy is his grandmother on the Roberts side and while he never met her, he is keen to find out more about her.

"The next record I can find of Daisy is in the Aust. Electoral Rolls in Sydney in 1936 & 1937."
What name are you seeing on the electoral roll?"
- Daisy Veronica Roberts, Bumborah Point, Yarra Bay; Occupation HD. It's the same info on both rolls.

"From the death certificate....can you please list all the information. It would be useful to see what else the informant knew.  Can you be sure to indicate if some headings are left blank.....shown as a dash...."unknown" is written."

Here's the DC Transcription Info (verbatim):
Registration No. - 00853.
Date of Death - 3 Mar 1939.
Place of Death - The Prince Henry Hospital, Little Bay, Municipality of Randwick, Late of Yarra Bay, Municipality of Randwick.
Name - Daisy Veronica Roberts;. Also known as Peggy Lamerts (sic).
Occupation - Left blank.
Sex - Female.
Age - 36.
Cause of Death - Pulmonary Tuberculosis, Periferal (sic) Neuritis, Cardiac Failure.
Duration - Admitted to Hospital 24 Feb 1939.
Medical Attendant - R.R. Bye; 3 Mar 1939.
Father - James David Sketchley.
Father's Occupation - Butcher.
Mother - Maiden Name - Annie (surname not listed).
Informant - A. McWhinney, Clerk, The Prince Henry Hospital; Registered 10 Mar 1939, Redfern.
When Buried - 7 Mar 1939.
Where Buried - Church of England Cemetery, Botany.
Undertaker - Wood, Coffill Limited.
Minister - J.F.G. Huthnance.
Religion - Church of England.
Witnesses - David Rattray; R.M. Tomlin.
Where Born - Perth, Western Australia.
Time in Colony/Sate - Left blank
Place Married - Married; Particulars unknown.
Age at Marriage - Left blank
Spouse - Left blank.
Children of Marriage - Unknown.
Other Comments - Peggy Lamerts might have been Peggy Lamerto.

"How long had Daisy been in hospital / under treatment etc?"
- Answered above.

To wivenhoe and CassT:
"Maybe you could contact the Cemetery to see if anybody else is buried in the same plot".
- Thanks, I'll do that. However, there is a Find a Grave record for Daisy which shows a photo of an unmarked grave at that plot location. Daisy's three siblings and her parents are all buried in W.A. She was estranged from the family after the divorce.

Again ... many thanks to all the responses. This is such a great forum!
... Sel



 
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Thursday 15 October 20 07:56 BST (UK)
To cupoflife:
This info on Victor Francis Lamerto is a revelation, and is certainly worth checking out. Not sure why I hadn't picked this up before, but have been experiencing a little difficulty with Trove since the revamp of the site. Many, many thanks for this reference.

To wivenhoe:
"What is on the death certificate that enables you to identify these two events to be for the same woman?"
- I don't think I answered this question fully. There are two NSW Death index records with the same registered number 853/1939 - one for Daisy Veronica Roberts, the other for Peggy Lamerto. The full transcription previously detailed is one I obtained for "Daisy Veronica Roberts known as Peggy Lamerts" (sic). The name Lemerts could end with an 'O', as indicated in 'Other Comments' by the Agent.
Also, we do know that Daisy Sketchley married Owen Roberts and the parent details on the DC transcription confirms the connection.
Questions: Should I be getting a full certificate? For which entry - Roberts or Lamerto? Wouldn't both registration entries show the same information?

Thanks again .... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 15 October 20 08:00 BST (UK)

The Daily News (Perth)  6 Jan 1925   p7
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/82860443?
...funeral David James SKETCHLEY.....mourners Mrs A SKETCHLEY (widow)...J D SKETCHLEY (son)....
Mrs D ROBERTS...Mrs S REYNOLDS....Miss Lilly SKETCHLEY (daughters).....

Daisy is in Perth, and with the SKETCHLEY family at 1925.
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 15 October 20 08:04 BST (UK)

BDM has one death record for Daisy Veronica / Peggy. You can see it as two entries on the index to show you, the researcher, that Daisy uses two family names.  But there is only one document....the one that you have.
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: judb on Thursday 15 October 20 08:22 BST (UK)
You have her on electoral rolls in NSW - what name was she using then, and where was she living/

Judith
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Thursday 15 October 20 08:39 BST (UK)
To wivenhoe: Thanks for the 1925 Trove record - another one I have missed! Looks like I'll have to review my searching techniques. Also thanks for clearing up my confusion on certificate/BDM index records.

To judb: "You have her on electoral rolls in NSW - what name was she using then, and where was she living"
 - This is buried in Reply #8 ... 'Daisy Veronica Roberts, Bumborah Point, Yarra Bay; Occupation HD. It's the same info on both rolls.'

Grateful for all this help.

.... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 15 October 20 08:55 BST (UK)


"..Owen Ronald Roberts in June 1918."

What happened to Owen....I am not seeing him...electoral rolls....BDM WA....WW2......?
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Thursday 15 October 20 09:23 BST (UK)
To wivenhoe:
Briefly, Birth record WA BDM 1358/1918, registered in Perth; Owen R Roberts. WW2 record ... Ronald Roberts. It appears he dropped the 'Owen' for much of his adult life and just used Ronald.

Sorry, I'm committed for the rest of this evening, so I'll have to come back to you tomorrow on this. But it's a messy trail with name changes and un-verified family stories.

'til tomorrow.

... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: McGroger on Thursday 15 October 20 10:27 BST (UK)
A couple more records about the son:

1980 Electoral Roll Fremantle Palmyra 17 Swan Rd At[ta]dale
Owen Ronald Roberts [No occupation]; Rachel Roberts hd

Death 27 Dec 1981 [Findagrave]
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/213551314/_ (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/213551314/_)

Peter
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Thursday 15 October 20 20:36 BST (UK)
Hello Peter .... nice to hear from you. I recall the quality photo restoration work you did for me a year or so ago.
And I did have these records - I'm told that Owen (known to everyone as Ronald/Ron) was a very private man. The Rachel in the AERs is his second wife.
Many thanks for the contact.
.... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Thursday 15 October 20 21:14 BST (UK)
To wivenhoe: Sorry for the 'break in transmission'. I'm back for a couple of hours this morning. Here's a quick rundown on Owen Ronald Roberts.
- 1941. Enlisted as Ronald Roberts WW2 records - Service No. WX28283 (Nat. Archives and WW2 Nominal Roll).
- 1944. Married to Agnes Mary Maloney 26 Dec 1944; Qld BDM 1945/C/130. Two children.
- 1949 to 1980. AERs under the name of Ronald Roberts, in various locations in WA.
- 1960s. Second marriage to Catherine Rachel (private).
- 1980/1981. In the last two AERs he reverted to his full name of Owen Ronald Roberts.
- 1981. Died in WA. 27 Dec 1981. Buried in Karrakatta.

He was a very private man. His first wife died at age 26, and very few family records, no photos, little info kept from this relationship. It's been a real challenge to get to where we are today. The focus of our research is now on his mother Daisy and due to the support from you and other contributors on this Forum, real progress has been made.
The family is very grateful.
 ..... Sel

Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 16 October 20 00:04 BST (UK)
Wow this post has progressed quickly
Look forward to the summary of results so far

I can't get into the news reports
Thanks for the notes
So was it Daisy s husband who Was accused of murder

Do you know the origin of his alias it looks like East European origin
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Friday 16 October 20 02:06 BST (UK)
Hi brigidmac..... great progress with the help of fellow Forum members.
Newspaper and police reports indicate he was a Russian national, who arrived in Australia in 1913.
Importantly, we have NOT YET established any link between him and Daisy. This is now the focus of our further research.
Thanks .... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: Mckha489 on Friday 16 October 20 03:57 BST (UK)
Have you seen the photograph in the police gazette on Ancestry?
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 16 October 20 04:01 BST (UK)
Try looking for a naturalization document for him ....all sorts of information on them ..sometimes photos

Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 16 October 20 05:28 BST (UK)
Email the cemetery and ask if there is another burial in this plot....and anything in their records about this burial  eg. contact for account....who paid.....is there a headstone....any note of LAMERTO name....

https://easternsuburbsmemorialpark.worldsecuresystems.com/finding-loved-ones

Daisy Veronica ROBERTS   (date of death) N/A  (date of burial) 07/03/1939
ADDD - Anglican FM DDD, ADDD - Anglican FM DDD, Position 0451
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Friday 16 October 20 05:46 BST (UK)
To Mckha489:
"Have you seen the photograph in the police gazette on Ancestry?"
- Thanks for the info. Yes, I've been trawling through the Ancestry police gazette hints. Some good info. It looks like Mr Lamerto was a petty criminal for quite a number of years before he was arrested for the White murder ... with the charge subsequently being dismissed.

To brigidmac:
"Try looking for a naturalization document for him ....all sorts of information on them ..sometimes photos".
- Thanks, appreciate the tip and I'll follow that up. Bases on the newspaper and police gazette reports, it seems unlikely that he would have passes any character test. But, I'll explore that angle nevertheless.
Cheers.  ..... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Friday 16 October 20 05:48 BST (UK)
To wivenhoe:
"Email the cemetery and ask if there is another burial in this plot....and anything in their records about this burial  eg. contact for account....who paid.....is there a headstone....any note of LAMERTO name...."
- Thanks. I've already done this. Will post here if/when I receive a response.
Cheers ... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Friday 16 October 20 07:24 BST (UK)
Update:
FYI - I've found a record for Victor Francis Januschevsky in the National Archives. Item barcode - 65473452; Series Number - MT269/1.
With Melbourne in Lockdown, the NAA office in that city its closed until further notice, and are unable to provide digital copies at the present time.
However, the item details on the website state his nationality is Russian; Date of birth - 9 Feb 1895; and was first registered (under the Aliens Registrations Act) at Claremont (Western Australia).
Slowly .....slowly ....
Cheers ... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: sparrett on Friday 16 October 20 07:33 BST (UK)
While the following information may not help much with Daisy, it may assist in supporting or otherwise whether Victor Francis LAMERTO was connect with her.

Victor Francis LAMERTO arrived in Fremantle per SS ALBIN in 1913
Per SS Albin 1913
National Archives Australia
(Applications for registration (Aliens Registration files) (Forms A1, B1 and C), alphabetical series by nationality)

By 1922 he was in Victoria with one Ethel May HYAMS forging and passing fake coins.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95406394

Ethel was a widow whose husband had been killed in war service. Afer this case, she seems to have ended the relationship.

The events of 1932 are already documented.

In 1942, a jury was required in Darlinghurst Quarter Sessions in the cases of Victor Fancis La MERTO and Elsa Yvonne La MERTO.
EDIT to add omitted link
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17808099

Elsa Yvonne La MERTO had entered Australia at Melbourne in 1919.

National Archives Australia

Elsa Voney La Merto [Latvian - arrived Melbourne per SS ARRATTA in 1919. Box 159]
Applications for registration (Aliens Registration files) (Forms A1, B1 and C), alphabetical series by nationality

In 1940 there is this marriage  ???

Elsa Yvonne WATSON
Victor Francis La MARTO
Marriage Place:
New South Wales At Redfern, New South Wales
1940 /10554

In 1954 Victor Francis La MERTO announced his intention to apply for naturalisation.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248767646
He lived in Surry Hills NSW.

ADDING
A link with more information about Ethel May HYAMS
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/66721698

Sue






Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Friday 16 October 20 07:55 BST (UK)
Thank you, thank you Sue for all this info. Your research skills are a notch or two above mine!
Lamerto / La Merto / Januschevsky ..... all records seem to point to the same person. I just need to timeline all  the data uncovered to get a clearer picture.
And yes ... still no direct connection with Daisy.
Very grateful for the effort you have go to.
.... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: judb on Friday 16 October 20 07:59 BST (UK)
I cannot see any evidence of a connection with Daisy and Victor LAMERTO, however it's such an unusual name and they were both in Sydney in the 1930s so it seems very possible that they were connected. Some of thee information below has already been posted but I though it worth collecting together.

Newspaper reports give an alternative name for him -  Janus Chansky, (although these two names are written as one in some newspaper reports) and in another report  Jamuschersky, - and he was reported to have jumped ship in WA in 1913.

We have Daisy born in WA in 1902

Victor was in Melbourne in 1922,described as a seaman and convicted of uttering forged coins with Ethel May HYAMS
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/95406394

In 1927 in Sydney he was convicted again of uttering forged coins; sentenced to two years imprisonment.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/195220916

In 1932 is the arrest and charge of murder of which he was later acquitted.  At the time of the murder he had been living for the previous nine months at the same 'residential' (boarding house type accommodation, I assume) as the murdered girl in Liverpool St, Darlinghurst.  He is described then as unemployed.

Then in 1955 is the death as already posted
1955 #3114 registered at DARLINGHURSTPADDINGTON
Victor Francis LAMERTO, aged 59

There is also this marriage, with slightly incorrect spelling.
1940 #10554, registered Redfern
Victor Francis LAMARTO, Elsa Yvonne WATSON

I cannot see a naturalisation for him using surname LAMERTO but that wouldn't be unusual back then.

Judith







Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: majm on Friday 16 October 20 08:53 BST (UK)
  :)

National Archives in Canberra ... online index has the surname as two words
LA    MERTO  ;D 

JM
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 16 October 20 08:59 BST (UK)


https://prov.vic.gov.au/about-us/our-blog/try-our-new-search-experience

search term....La Merto.......
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 16 October 20 09:16 BST (UK)
Elsa Yvonne from Latvia Watson unlikely to be her original name

Victor mentioned as from Riga Russia .
Riga is now capital of Latvia but was Russian

In WW1 Wales my Latvian great grandfather was arrested for being an alien ....in an unauthorized place.

Maybe not same in Australia but

aliens had to register when they moved towns .His original papers/passport only had name of town & he couldn't prove he was Russian Latvian ...not German !

Jamuschersky is unusual could be Jewish too.
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: majm on Friday 16 October 20 09:22 BST (UK)
NSW Police Gazettes digitised images are still freely available via Trove.   ;D 

JM
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 16 October 20 10:30 BST (UK)
Back to post 1 re the divorce
Was it on grounds of adultery ?

Does your friend suspect they may have half cousins somewhere ?

Have they done DNA?
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: sparrett on Friday 16 October 20 11:33 BST (UK)
In my opinion the most notable and vaguely significant factor ( or coincidence!) linking your Daisy to this man is that Daisy died in 1939 and the marriage of Elsa and Victor was shortly after (1940) despite the fact Elsa and Victor were seemingly acquainted in some way years before then.

You should also look for interest  at the area  of Bumborah Point, Botany at the time of Daisy's residence. It seems not very comfortable in a general residential sense.

Sue

Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: majm on Friday 16 October 20 12:07 BST (UK)
Thanks to all the posts so far ... much appreciated.

To brigidmac:
"I dont know if it will help your search but did you know that Daisy and Peggy are both used as short forms for Margaret".
- I was aware of the use of Peggy for Margaret but not Daisy, so thanks for that.

To wivenhoe:
"What is on the death certificate that enables you to identify these two events to be for the same woman?"
- I don't have a formal DC. I have a full transcription from a NSW Transcription agent. The Index references (853/1939) are the same

"How did this death attract your interest?"
- I'm assisting a good friend with his family research. Daisy is his grandmother on the Roberts side and while he never met her, he is keen to find out more about her.

"The next record I can find of Daisy is in the Aust. Electoral Rolls in Sydney in 1936 & 1937."
What name are you seeing on the electoral roll?"
- Daisy Veronica Roberts, Bumborah Point, Yarra Bay; Occupation HD. It's the same info on both rolls.

"From the death certificate....can you please list all the information. It would be useful to see what else the informant knew.  Can you be sure to indicate if some headings are left blank.....shown as a dash...."unknown" is written."

Here's the DC Transcription Info (verbatim):
Registration No. - 00853.
Date of Death - 3 Mar 1939.
Place of Death - The Prince Henry Hospital, Little Bay, Municipality of Randwick, Late of Yarra Bay, Municipality of Randwick.
Name - Daisy Veronica Roberts;. Also known as Peggy Lamerts (sic).
Occupation - Left blank.
Sex - Female.
Age - 36.
Cause of Death - Pulmonary Tuberculosis, Periferal (sic) Neuritis, Cardiac Failure.
Duration - Admitted to Hospital 24 Feb 1939.
Medical Attendant - R.R. Bye; 3 Mar 1939.
Father - James David Sketchley.
Father's Occupation - Butcher.
Mother - Maiden Name - Annie (surname not listed).
Informant - A. McWhinney, Clerk, The Prince Henry Hospital; Registered 10 Mar 1939, Redfern.
When Buried - 7 Mar 1939.
Where Buried - Church of England Cemetery, Botany.
Undertaker - Wood, Coffill Limited.
Minister - J.F.G. Huthnance.
Religion - Church of England.
Witnesses - David Rattray; R.M. Tomlin.
Where Born - Perth, Western Australia.
Time in Colony/Sate - Left blank
Place Married - Married; Particulars unknown.
Age at Marriage - Left blank
Spouse - Left blank.
Children of Marriage - Unknown.
Other Comments - Peggy Lamerts might have been Peggy Lamerto.

"How long had Daisy been in hospital / under treatment etc?"
- Answered above.

To wivenhoe and CassT:
"Maybe you could contact the Cemetery to see if anybody else is buried in the same plot".
- Thanks, I'll do that. However, there is a Find a Grave record for Daisy which shows a photo of an unmarked grave at that plot location. Daisy's three siblings and her parents are all buried in W.A. She was estranged from the family after the divorce.

Again ... many thanks to all the responses. This is such a great forum!
... Sel

Sue's latest post prompts me to consider what  was happening that may  affect Daisy's illnesses ...

So 1939 Botany ... the Great Depression was lingering on,  many were still homeless and many others were squatting along Botany's shores ...  the community known as 'Happy Valley' were basically abandoned when in 1939 it was demolished.   There were several oral history projects in the late 1970s and into the 1980s, recording memories of people who survived the Botany Bay and Matraville camps ....  very confronting oral history.  The local public library may know where to locate hardcopy of the transcripts.

JM
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Friday 16 October 20 22:13 BST (UK)
Whew!! This topic has taken on a life of its own, and we (me, together with my good friend who I'm doing this research for) are a little overwhelmed, but so very grateful, for all the contributions. There is much to dissect here and all the observations and suggestions will take some time to follow through. With any family history research endeavour, when we get some answers, there are often more questions.
However, I think there are a few key things we have to focus on here:
- Daisy's death record states she was 'Known as Peggy Lamerto", so it would be important if we can find some additional supporting records linking Daisy to the Lamerto name.
- There is a lot of info on Victor Lamerto (La Merto etc), and his activities in the late 1930s may provide us with something.
- Daisy's AER records in 1936 & 1937 show her recorded under her own name - Daisy Veronica Roberts.
- The detail in Daisy's death record is pretty comprehensive. A fresh approach, with clear eyes to this document will be undertaken.
- A puzzle pointed out by a few of you wonderful contributors, is the connection/marriage/relationship between Victor and Elsa. Elsa arrived in Australia in 1919 under the name of Elsa Voney La Merto. Then in 1940 (not long after Daisy's death), and now as Elsa Yvonne Watson, she marries Victor. In 1942, they are jointly involved in petty primal activities. I want to pursue this a bit further.

So ..... there is much to do. But the search will continue. And many thanks, again to all who have contributed to this journey.

..... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Saturday 17 October 20 01:33 BST (UK)
Small amendment to send last para of my last post:
"..... they are jointly involved in petty primal activities. I want to pursue this a bit further."

Sorry ..... this should read 'criminal' not 'primal'. My bad!!

... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 17 October 20 07:58 BST (UK)
Back to post 1 re the divorce
Was it on grounds of adultery ?

Does your friend suspect they may have half cousins somewhere ?

Have they done DNA?

This link describes the grounds for the divorce and Daisy was the petitioner. Misconduct on Owen's part
 
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/93251580


Sue
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Saturday 17 October 20 12:07 BST (UK)
“Back to post 1 re the divorce
Was it on grounds of adultery ?
Does your friend suspect they may have half cousins somewhere ?
Have they done DNA?”
- My understanding is that “misconduct” was the legal inference of adultery. Owen did not defend the petition.
- Yes. There are half-cousins and contact is being made where they are still alive.
- No. DNA not undertaken ... yet. I think it’s being considered.

Thanks for your contributions, Sue. The Forum has greatly assisted in moving the FH journey forward.
...... Sel
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 18 October 20 03:13 BST (UK)
Hi
I am sure you would have these in memoria in the newspapers of W A, but I mention them just to draw attention to the fact that at the time of placing them, the family included Daisy's name.

It may be that they knew her whereabouts or they may not have known it, but just included her anyway.

I think you could safely take the implication that they knew she was alive.

After all, the deceased sister May is mentioned as deceased.

1928
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/32247876
 
1936
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/41263880

Annoyingly (or carefully  ::)) surnames not mentioned for the married daughters.

Sue
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: judb on Sunday 18 October 20 04:55 BST (UK)
It seems that Daisy may have attended her father's funeral 30 December 1924, Karrakatta, as she is mentioned as a mourner in this account of the funeral.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/82860443

Judith
Title: Re: Desperately seeking Daisy ROBERTS, nee SKETCHLEY (AKA Peggy LAMERTS/LAMERTO)
Post by: jansel70 on Sunday 18 October 20 13:31 BST (UK)
Sue & Judith .... thanks to you both for continuing with your input. I've had a weekend catching up with family - very important during these strange Covid times.

I had seen the 1924 Funeral notice, but not the 1928 & 1936 In Memoriam notices. It seems I need to do a bit more work on my Sketchley searches in Trove. Thank you, Sue, for drawing these to my attention. I agree with your thinking that at the very least then family knew that Daisy was still alive in 1928 & 1936.

FYI - We are currently working our way through two of Daisy's siblings, Amelia and James to try and ascertain and make contact with any living descendants (we understand that Lily did not marry). In addition, Owen Roberts had three children from his second relationship Margaret (Madge) Ryan - she was the 'other woman' in the Divorce - who also bought one child to the relationship, and we are also working through that line. There has been some success connecting with a descendant from the latter, but this has not provided any additional info about Daisy. It seems that not long after the divorce Daisy became estranged from the family. So it is useful to know that in 1936, while Daisy was now in Sydney (according to AER records), she was at least still in the family's thoughts.

Many thanks, again, for all your input. It is really valued.

... Sel