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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: fzrkitten on Saturday 17 October 20 11:54 BST (UK)

Title: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: fzrkitten on Saturday 17 October 20 11:54 BST (UK)
Hi, I'm looking for help on Elizabeth Ward, she was my Great Great Grandmother. 
I seem to have a few choices on Ancestry of who she might have been..
Another name could be Frances Elizabeth.
Married Robert Youngs, although could be Robert Carrs Youngs.

My mum always told me there was Romani down her side of the family.  I believed her as she could read palms and tea leaves accurately herself, and had no reason to lie.  There are traits in family that are possibly connected apparently too.  But I've hit a blank.

Some very kind people have been helping me, but I am currently stuck here
I have ordered Ancestry DNA so hopefully in a few weeks can get further.

I'm also stuck on mum's father's side, totally stuck.  (Frederick John Flaaman (or Flaxman on his birth certificate) Seago, 1874-1921.  His Parents are possibly listed as John Seago/Sago (very possible)/Seage I can't get any more hints than that, and Emma or Emily for his mother. 

Any help or pointers to Romani heritage would be amazing, I have been talking to someone extremely knowledgeable and in this area but other's of you may have different info of course :) x
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 17 October 20 12:11 BST (UK)
Hi

As there are some uncertainties - start with what you know and work backwards.

You don’t give any birthplace for Elizabeth so have you found her & Robert on any census entry after their marriage?

March qtr 1866
Robert Youngs/Elizabeth Ward    Loddon  4b 346

1871 for Norfolk - all b Aldeby except Elizabeth

Robert Youngs 29
Elizabeth 38 b Hedenham
James 5
Elizabeth 3
Robert 1
Ellen 1mth
George Ward 19 boarder
Anna Ward 15 boarder
RG10/1830/19/14
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 17 October 20 12:38 BST (UK)
  I came up with the same as above....but to push it back...

  Anna Ward birth 1856 mmn DODMAN

 Elizabeth DODMAN married George WARD  in Loddon district 1849.

 Elizabeth DODMAN baptised 1832 Hedenham 28 Oct father Robert a footman mother Elizabeth.

 So 2 marriages?

 Tazzie
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 17 October 20 15:39 BST (UK)
The 1866 marriage gives her father as Robert Dodman labourer and confirms Elizabeth as a widow.
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 17 October 20 15:48 BST (UK)
1851

Elizabeth Ward 60
George Ward 24 son
Elizabeth Ward 20 wife
William Ward 1 grandson

1861

George Ward 36
Elizabeth Ward 29
William 11
George 9
Clara 8
Anne 6
female infant 1 month
Elizabeth Dodman 55 mother in law

Burial for George Ward (husband) 24 Aug 1862 Aldeby
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 17 October 20 16:24 BST (UK)
Marriages Dec qtr 1849

Elizabeth Dodman/George Ward. -   Loddon 13 533
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 17 October 20 16:34 BST (UK)
1841 census - Robert was an agricultural labourer

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7SM-C6R

From the available info so far - there does not appear to be any obvious Romany connections
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 17 October 20 17:28 BST (UK)
Her parents marriage

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXXP-FJZ

Her grandmother Elizabeth Abraham is in the household in 1841
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: fzrkitten on Saturday 17 October 20 19:39 BST (UK)
Wow, thank you everyone so much, I will work through all these, I am stuck as to where my Romany lies but will keep looking, and maybe the DNA will show in a few weeks.  Either way, this is all amazing information, to know my ancestry is extremely important to me at the moment for some reason. xx
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 17 October 20 20:00 BST (UK)
Frederick Seago was born 1874 Norfolk.  If you want to find a mothers maiden name prior to 1911 you can use the info from freebmd on the GRO website

Births
Frederick John Flaxman Seago December qtr 1874 Yarmouth 4b 24 - no mothers maiden name meaning he was illegitimate - despite the incorrect info on the tree on Ancestry showing his father as John W Seago & his mother as Emma  ???

www.freebmd.org.uk
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

You would need to buy a copy of his birth cert to establish his mothers christian name as I suspect she married before 1881

You can buy a pdf copy of the birth cert for £7 using the GRO link above
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 17 October 20 21:41 BST (UK)
I see he lists John and Emily on his naval reserve records. However his marriage register has no father listed
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 17 October 20 22:14 BST (UK)
He appears to be with the Angel family in Yarmouth in 1891 and 1901, and potentially in 1881 (if transcribed as Angel). However I can't see any obvious connection with the Seagos

Interestingly there is an Emily Maria Seago b Beccles - she and the family are living in Newington, London in 1871 and she married before 1881
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 18 October 20 00:31 BST (UK)
That's a really good find Mabel.  I can't see any obvious connection to the Angel family but it appears to be a second marriage for Robert Angel.  He married in 1869 to Mary Ann Bloomfield who died in 1874

He then married Jane Swann in the March qtr 1876 - Frederick Seago was born Dec qtr 1875 so I wonder was Jane his mother??
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: fzrkitten on Sunday 18 October 20 01:33 BST (UK)
Hi Carole/Mabel,

Many thanks, I have got Fredericks Birth Certificate, he is my Great Grandfather.  He was a Marine Engine Driver.  It list's Emma as his mother, although his Naval records show Emily as you said.  It's me that's put the info on Ancestry, was all I had at the time, but someone had mentioned an Angel to me, although I couldn't find anything, and your theory is fascinating Carole.  I don't have much of a clue what I'm doing, so I may have got the whole line wrong from there backwards.  I know I am right up to Frederick.  Also on the Holmes side (My grandad) is right, hopefully right back as I share tree's with a few people there.   I really appreciate you all looking for me. x
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 18 October 20 02:21 BST (UK)
He was definitely illegitimate so made up a fathers name when he married.  Quite a common practice in those days so as to appear “respectable”

There is an Emma Seago b 1846 Bergh Apton parents Thomas & Mary

She married Mark Mason 21.12.1897 and was a spinster at that time

1871 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFNL-6CV
1881 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-H67X
1901 census -  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFL-995
1911 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X751-9BP

Emma died 30.6.1929 & left a will.  Unfortunately Frederick died 1921 so will not be named in it but if she was his mother there is the possibility she may have left something to his children.  You can download a copy of the will for £1.50.  If there are bequests to his children - you have the connection

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills


There is also an 1891 entry for Emily Seago - single - b Holy Cross Norfolk 1858 living in Somerset

1861 with parents Jeremiah & Maria in Norfolk


Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 18 October 20 20:00 BST (UK)
He actually didn't list a father on his marriage, it's his navy records where he's mentioned John

I wasn't sure from your reply whether you;d found the Angels. He's with Robert William and Jane

1881:  RG11; 1914; 41; 13; aged 6  [enumerated as Fred Angel?]
1891  RG12; 1502; 136; 49;  Boarder, fisherman aged 15
1901 RG13; 1812; 144; 44  Boarder, ship's engine driver  26

I don;t  think  Jane Angel is his mother, as he'd be Frederick Swann not Seago

There's a marriage between Edward Angel and Mary Ann Maria Seago in 1884, but I can;t see how they are connected to this collection of Angels


Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: fzrkitten on Saturday 24 October 20 22:24 BST (UK)
Thank you again Mabel and Carole, I can't see the Angels at all, but I'm only going on Ancestry hints as I am extremely new to finding info and don't get a lot of how you find things.  Or I just get very confused going round in circles. 
Carole you said about Emma having a will, I clicked on the link you gave and entered the details of Emma Seago, 1929 and it can't find a death.  I went one or two years a side with the date as well.
Thank you so much for the information both, I will try and work it out in my own head.  I also have done my DNA now today, so in 6 or so weeks may have more clue.
Kind Regards,
x
Title: Re: Elizabeth Ward/Youngs 1833 - Great Great Grandmother
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 24 October 20 22:51 BST (UK)
I included the reference numbers to help you  track down the entries - but here they are on Familysearch

1881 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q278-9FW6 
1891  - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:44N4-V6Z
1901 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSF6-FYR