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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: tempogold on Tuesday 20 October 20 09:57 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am hoping someone can help me with my mystery women Franci(e)s Shorter .
On 7 Nov 1823 in Burwash she marries John Pennells a agr labourer and they live in the area till at least 1871. First at Key Lands ( sorry dont know what that means) and latter at Barn House Burwash.
But on the census returns from 1841-1871 no location is given for her place of birth.--Just not known . I have not found a death record either . After Johns death she is working as a char women.
Her age from the census returns suggest a birth between 1807-1811 but of course these could be wide of the mark.
There are a few baptisms on Ancestry in the Burwash area but the the dates dont really tally. Also a number of trees but the majority have her as the daughter of a Charles and Sarah Shorter --but that family appear to be well to do farmers in the Edenbridge area although Charles family are from Burwash.
It seems strange she didnt know from were she was born --could this suggest the workhouse ?
Interested in your views and if we can find a death record. Have only found 2 sons for her shown as Thomas b 1824 and Henry Pennells 1829. Both stay in Burwash for most of their lives. Henry dies Cranbrook .
Many thanks .
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Burial;
01 Mar 1880, St Bartholomew, Burwash
Frances PENNELLS age 73
Abode Marden
Note;
Went to Marden to nurse her niece Harriet Ann Blackford, but both died suddenly.
(Source FreeREG)
Yes I can find only 2 Sons Bapts on FreeREG
Will try and see how the Neice fits in
Trish :)
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Burial same Church 10 Feb 1880 Harriet Ann BLACKFORD age 34
Abode Marden
Born Snashall. Husband of Rev Blackford of Burwash. Died very suddenly
May mean her Husband is Rev Blackford.?
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Ok cant see Marriage yet but;
1861 Census
Burwash, Sussex
Sarah Snashall 46 Head Widow Charwoman born Heathfield, Sussex
James Snashall 22
HARRIET Snashall 15******
Sally Snashall 11
Alfred Snashall 9
Fanny Snashall 5
1851 Census
William Snashall 46 Ag Lab
Sarah Snashall 36
William D Snashall 14
James Snashall 11
Harriet Snashall 5*****
Saly Snashall 2
1841 Census
Wm Snashall 35 Ag Lab
Sarah Snashall 25
Wm Snashall 4
James Snashall 2
N K Snashall 2 mths
Marriage;
7 May 1834, Burwash, Sussex
William SNASHALL/Sarah SHORTER
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On F/S we have a SARAH Shorter bapt 15 Mar 1816 Heathfield to SAMUEL/ELIZABETH
(Father a Gatekeeper on image)
Also there;
Samuel 1814
Burwash;
James 1809
Charles 1815
Charles 1818
Cely Susannah 1821
And at Framfield;
FRANCES 8 March 1807***
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FreeREG burial of SAMUEL Shorter 09 Aug 1846 Burwash age 61 (1785)
And a Samuel 07 Feb 1815 infant (likely 1814 bapt)
+ a possible burial 29 Aug 1828 for ELIZABETH Shorter age 42 (1786)
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Last one for tonight;
Marriage of Sam/Eliz is on F/S 12 Jan 1807 Framfield
Gosh just made it before Frances was born :)
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Thomas Blackford 25, Father Robert
Harriott Snashall 19 Father William
Marriage: 3 Oct 1863, Burwash
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hello Trish and thank you . Would never had got this sorted. I knew what I was seeing was wrong but not how to sort it. Much appreciated.
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Your very welcome.
FreeREG was the clincher for burial of Frances.
Look at FreeREG as I think the bapt of Samuel Shorter is there 1785/6 from memory
www.freereg.org.uk
Off to bed for me as its late her in Australia.
Back tomorrow night if you need any help.
Trish :)
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Removal order to Burwash
Date 14 Nov 1807
Samuel Shorter, his wife Elizabeth and daughter Frances (9 months) from Waldron
https://www.thekeep.info/collections/getrecord/GB179_P284_14_36
Image on FamilySearch
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As i have worked the tree back I find Samuel Shorter was a brother to the Charles Shorter b Wadhurst who had the large farm of 244 acres in Edenbridge . Their father Robert listed in 1799 Poll book Burwash. Thanks again.
John was does Removal Order mean ?
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Hi
Lincs FHS have a bit on Removal Orders, they might explain it better!
https://www.lincolnshirefhs.org.uk/index.php/research/poor-law-reference/693-removal-orders
I think by then it means that Samuel and family had become chargeable to Waldron as paupers. But Samuel's settlement was in Burwash, so the parish overseers could take out a removal order to send them back there.
There's a note in the Burwash Overseers Accounts, 17 Nov 1807
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6PZQ-7Z7
The actual removal order is here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6MH9-SD6
If you want to download it, use the image viewer
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01pyu/
John
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Thanks John. Much Appreciated . Life was hard and what a contrast to his brother Charles .