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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: YB2019 on Tuesday 20 October 20 17:21 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I was hoping someone can help me find a death for my ancestor please?
I am looking for a death of Joseph Young born 1845 in Castle Eden, Durham (this is fact as I have his birth certificate). He married a Margaret Ann Gustard in 1865 and she dies in 1871. He then went on to marry twice more and on the 1911 census he is living with his third wife Isabella Young.
There is a few people I think it maybe, but can't seem to narrow it down so any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Everyone :)
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Where is he living in 1911 :-\
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Where is he living in 1911 :-\
In 1911 he was living in Chopwell, Durham (parish is listed as Chopwell and sub district is listed as Winlaton).
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Anyone had any luck in narrowing things down?
Any help would be hugely appreciated :)
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on the 1911 census he is living with his third wife Isabella Young.
When did she die? Her death would indicate if she was a widow or wife. A burial for her could lead to more info about her husband.
Have you checked the GRO death index for Joseph which gives ages?
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A family tree has death for Joseph 1915 Gateshead.
You could take a chance on that death certificate to see if details match.
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on the 1911 census he is living with his third wife Isabella Young.
When did she die? Her death would indicate if she was a widow or wife. A burial for her could lead to more info about her husband.
Have you checked the GRO death index for Joseph which gives ages?
Not sure when she died as I have not looked but she was considerably younger than him so I'm guessing she died after him. I have checked GRO for death's and there are a few, but I think I'm just going to have to take a chance and hope I have ordered the right one. he listed his DOB different on all censuses so I'm not sure he knew his DOB (he was born in 1845 as I have his birth cert, but he lists he DOB from 1844 to 1855).
Thanks :)
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A family tree has death for Joseph 1915 Gateshead.
You could take a chance on that death certificate to see if details match.
I think this is the most likely and I'm just going to have to take a chance and order the certificate and hope for the best haha. Thanks :)
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I think that 1915 one is possibly the Joseph who is in Burnopfield on the previous census
Joseph Young
Burial date 03 Jul 1915
Church St James
Denomination Anglican
Place Burnopfield
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I think that 1915 one is possibly the Joseph who is in Burnopfield on the previous census
Joseph Young
Burial date 03 Jul 1915
Church St James
Denomination Anglican
Place Burnopfield
Thanks Rosie99. I have ordered the death certificate for Joseph 1915 Gateshead and hope it is the right one. Doing the maths from the GRO, he was 72 when he died, which would mean he was born in 1843 (ish) which is the closest I have got to his actual birth year. It's great you have found his burial records as I have other relatives buried in this church (some of Josephs grandchildren) so it is looking hopeful we have the right Joseph.
Thanks as always :)
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As I said, I don't think that it is your Joseph whose burial is at Burnopfield and links with that death certificate :-\ Burnopfield is in Whickham which comes under Gateshead registration district.
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/gateshead.html
I hope I am proved wrong and that your search for his death has ended.
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As I said, I don't think that it is your Joseph whose burial is at Burnopfield and links with that death certificate :-\ Burnopfield is in Whickham which comes under Gateshead registration district.
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/gateshead.html
I hope I am proved wrong and that your search for his death has ended.
Oh apologies I have interpreted what you said previously. I guess we will just have to wait and see what the death certificate says and go from there.
Thanks :)
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What was Isabella's maiden name?
Or was she a widow at marriage?
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What was Isabella's maiden name?
Or was she a widow at marriage?
Isabella's maiden name was Dobson and she was born 1878. She was only 19 when she married Joseph (he was 50) so I doubt she was a widow.
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Just because someone was buried say in Burnopfield does not mean he died there. Maybe he was in hospital in Gateshead. The death certificate is issued in the district it occurred.
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Just because someone was buried say in Burnopfield does not mean he died there. Maybe he was in hospital in Gateshead. The death certificate is issued in the district it occurred.
Thanks 2zpool. I think I will just have to go out on a whim on this one and hope I have ordered the right certificate and go from there.
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Isabella in 1911 at Chopwell is 49 - or is that the wrong 1911?
If 49, she was born around 1861.
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Isabella in 1911 at Chopwell is 49 - or is that the wrong 1911?
If 49, she was born around 1861.
Yes this is the correct lady, however on the censuses I have found (for both Joseph & Isabella) it seems they couldn't quite decide on their ages.
I found her when she was a child and she was listed with 3 very different ages and in 1901 she was 40 and 1911 she was 49. Joseph was listed as being 58 in 1901 but only 60 in 1911.
I don't think we can reply on ages much, which is one of the reasons I was having trouble finding a death for Joseph because his birth year/age changes so much throughout the years.
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Have you got the marriage certificate for her with her Father's name?
I think being 40 in 1901 and 49 in 1911 is fairly good for consistency.
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This is the 1911 census entry for the Joseph Young who I believe may be the one buried at Burnopfield. The address on the actual census form is Burnopfield though this transcript does not show it.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCL-8X8
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Thanks everyone!
I'm not actually that interested in Isabellas marriage as she was Joseph's third wife and not a direct line to me (Joseph's first wife Margaret Ann Gustard is my ancestor) so I don't have her marriage certificate, she was just the last person he was living with before he died.
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The only marriage I can see of a Margaret Ann Gustard in 1865 is to either Percival Deighton or Joseph Mason.
Could you give the correct details, please?
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Just to note a transcription of the 1897 marriage to Isabella Dobson has both bride and groom as single
Not the right couple, too young.
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This is the 1911 census entry for the Joseph Young who I believe may be the one buried at Burnopfield. The address on the actual census form is Burnopfield though this transcript does not show it.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCL-8X8
The other Joseph (i.e. the one in question) was actually living at Lintzford in 1911, this is also pretty close to Burnopfield so there's still a possibility :-\
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The Joseph Young/Isabella Dobson in 1911 are in Shadforth, which is where they married, age 38 and 35.
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The other Joseph (i.e. the one in question) was actually living at Lintzford in 1911
In 1911 he is only just up the road from Medomsley, where he was with second wife Mary in 1891?
That is, if it is the right Joseph in 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WJ1P-5PZ
Might just bring in a death in Lanchester district in 1917 :-\
Sep 1917 Lanchester 10a 286
Young, Joseph
age 73
I've done everything I can to find a burial for that chap, and failed! Three of the others with the same GRO ref were buried at Collierley Burial Ground in early August, nos. 2998 - 3000
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3VC-FXZL
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The only marriage I can see of a Margaret Ann Gustard in 1865 is to either Percival Deighton or Joseph Mason.
Could you give the correct details, please?
What you found is correct. Joseph was born Young then his Mam married a Clement Mason and Joseph then went by Mason (even when he got married to Gustard) then went back to using Young after he married.....confusing I know haha
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Three of the others with the same GRO ref were buried at Collierley Burial Ground in early August, nos. 2998 - 3000
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-P3VC-FXZL
That's known as Hare Law Cemetery, Annfield Plain. If he was still living at Lintzford when he died I think he'd more likely have been buried somewhere a bit nearer, unless there was a family connection.
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Oh it's a confusing one isnt it....
Fact - Joseph Young was born 1846 in Castle Eden
Fact - Joseph's Mam married Clement Mason and Joseph changed his name to Mason
Fact - Joseph married Margaret Ann Gustard using the name Mason
Fact - Margaret Ann died in 1871
Fact - Joseph then married a Mary Gott using the name Young
Fact - Mary died around 1891
Fact - Joseph married for a 3rd time to Isabella Dobson in 1897
Fact - Both still living in 1911 in Chopwell, Durham
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Oh it's a confusing one isnt it....
Fact - Joseph Young was born 1846 in Castle Eden
Fact - Joseph's Mam married Clement Mason and Joseph changed his name to Mason
Fact - Joseph married Margaret Ann Gustard using the name Mason
Fact - Margaret Ann died in 1871
Fact - Joseph then married a Mary Gott using the name Young
Fact - Mary died around 1891
Fact - Joseph married for a 3rd time to Isabella Dobson in 1897
Fact - Both still living in 1911 in Chopwell, Durham
I thought this rang a bell ;D
Long thread here https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=820586.msg6829877#msg6829877
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That's known as Hare Law Cemetery, Annfield Plain.
Thanks Jen. He may not have a connection there.
He might have been able to retire though. If Joseph made it to 70, he'd have got the old age pension.
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Fact - Both still living in 1911 in Chopwell, Durham
Pedantry alert ;D he was living in the Parish of Chopwell in 1911, but not in the village - he was living at Lintzford which is a few miles away.
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As Joseph did not marry Isabella Dobson, (which has been stated as a fact when it obviously is not, if the marriage certificate had been checked) which is the correct Joseph in 1901 and 1911, please, anyone?
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As Joseph did not marry Isabella Dobson, (which has been stated as a fact when it obviously is not, if the marriage certificate had been checked) which is the correct Joseph in 1901 and 1911, please, anyone?
As far as I’m aware it is the Joseph born in Castle Eden living at Lintzford (Chopwell) in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCG-HYS
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OK.
Who is Isabella?
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Thank you everyone.....as always I really appreciate all of your help :)
Have a great weekend :)
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Do let us know what it says when you get that death certificate
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Oh it's a confusing one isnt it....
Fact - Joseph Young was born 1846 in Castle Eden
Fact - Joseph's Mam married Clement Mason and Joseph changed his name to Mason
Fact - Joseph married Margaret Ann Gustard using the name Mason
Fact - Margaret Ann died in 1871
Fact - Joseph then married a Mary Gott using the name Young
Fact - Mary died around 1891
Fact - Joseph married for a 3rd time to Isabella Dobson in 1897
Fact - Both still living in 1911 in Chopwell, Durham
Revisiting this, it is now clear, as others have pointed out, that your Joseph didn't marry Isabella Dobson in 1897. That was another couple completely. We made an incorrect assumption on the earlier thread.
I can't yet see any other possible marriage to an Isabella.
I also can't see the death of Mary 'around 1891' that you refer to? Where did you find this? There are no obvious deaths in County Durham.
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Revisiting this, it is now clear, as others have pointed out, that your Joseph didn't marry Isabella Dobson in 1897
Darn! :(
I was about to post...
She says in the census that she was born in Gateshead.
An Isabella Dobson was born there in 1865, was that her? :-\
A death
March 1929 Gateshead 10a 1464
Young, Isabella
age 63
That lady is buried at Saltwell, 21 March 1929
Death occurred at the Union Hospital.
It says that she is the widow of Joseph Young
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-896W-KBT
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Just to note a transcription of the 1897 marriage to Isabella Dobson has both bride and groom as single
Not the right couple, too young.
The Joseph Young/Isabella Dobson in 1911 are in Shadforth, which is where they married, age 38 and 35.
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I wanted her (Isabella) sorting out to see if she married again which might indicate when Joseph had died.
Wonder why no marriage is showing for them, and why they claimed 11 years which would have been 1899/1900.
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Sorry I have not looked back through the threads, do we know where Joseph was in 1901 it is missing from the 'list'
Sorry, found them both
RG13/Piece number 4764 Folio 97 Page 27
Strathmoore Terrace, Rowlands Gill
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Ok, so let me get this right....My Joseph didn't marry Isabella...this is a completely different couple?!
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Ok, so let me get this right....My Joseph didn't marry Isabella...this is a completely different couple?!
Correct. Reply #39.
Where did you find the death of Mary Young in 'about 1891'?
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No way is it the same couple - we were guilty of making an bad assumption on the other thread.
St Bartholomew, Kelloe
21 Apr 1897 Joseph Young, bachelor, mason, 24, of Shadforth, son of Thomas Young, farmer.
Isabella Dobson ,spinster, age 21, of Thornley, daughter of Thomas Dobson, farmer
Witnesses: John Dobson; Ann Doxford; Annie Dobson; William Heron
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Ok, so let me get this right....My Joseph didn't marry Isabella...this is a completely different couple?!
Correct. Reply #39.
Where did you find the death of Mary Young in 'about 1891'?
Ok :) I'm not 100% sure of Mary's death as I don't have my family tree in front of me and I was just making a guess from memory but must have it wrong haha
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Ok, so let me get this right....My Joseph didn't marry Isabella...this is a completely different couple?!
Correct. Reply #39.
Where did you find the death of Mary Young in 'about 1891'?
Ok :) I'm not 100% sure of Mary's death as I don't have my family tree in front of me
Perhaps you’ll let us have the information when you’ve looked you tree.
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Of course.....I will have a look over the weekend and let you know.
Thanks everyone :)
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It was Mary Gott who was nineteen when she married Joseph Young, 9 Sep 1872
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXPH-FHH
Birth reg
GOTT, MARY ISABEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: SURTEES
GRO Reference: 1853 S Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 168
Don't think the Isabel name will help. Baptism on DRO. Father Thomas died 1860, age 42.
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It was Mary Gott who was nineteen when she married Joseph Young, 9 Sep 1872
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXPH-FHH
Birth reg
GOTT, MARY ISABEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: SURTEES
GRO Reference: 1853 S Quarter in DURHAM Volume 10A Page 168
Don't think the Isabel name will help. Baptism on DRO. Father Thomas died 1860, age 42.
Thanks John 😀
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You're welcome.
That baptism is transcribed on FreeReg, it was 5 March 1854 at St. Giles.
Parents Thomas and Jane, abode Dragon Villa. Father a Brickmaker
Even better, we have an image of the BT on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTFW-SF6?i=566
Very tangled story you have here!
John
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You're welcome.
That baptism is transcribed on FreeReg, it was 5 March 1854 at St. Giles.
Parents Thomas and Jane, abode Dragon Villa. Father a Brickmaker
Even better, we have an image of the BT on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTFW-SF6?i=566
Very tangled story you have here!
John
Great, thank you 😀 Oh it's very confusing isn't it, but I'm sure I will get there in the end...it's what I love about this forum, super helpful and you always get where you need be eventually. The struggles are part of the excitement of researching your family I guess).
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Just to add to the mix electoral registers are available for this time frame. Lintzford, Chopwell appears at that time to be in the Parliamentary Constituency of Chester le Street. The registers for 1909 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914 and 1915 have a Joseph Young at 2 Lintzford, Rowlands Gill.
William
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Just to add to the mix electoral registers are available for this time frame. Lintzford, Chopwell appears at that time to be in the Parliamentary Constituency of Chester le Street. The registers for 1909 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914 and 1915 have a Joseph Young at 2 Lintzford, Rowlands Gill.
William
Oh wow...thank you William! I will have to have a look into this further 😀
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Do not forget that women did not generally have the vote in the years mentioned By millmoor for electoral registers. Also there were no registers during the war.
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Do not forget that women did not generally have the vote in the years mentioned By millmoor for electoral registers. Also there were no registers during the war.
Thanks Rosie....I will have to remember this when researching 😀