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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jill Eaton on Thursday 22 October 20 16:31 BST (UK)
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Good afternoon
Would it be possible to look up the marriage of Helena M Parker to Francis Kelly in Cardiff, Sept quarter 1916.
If anyone has access to the original image could you tell me the name of each of their father's and their trade. I suspect that Helena may have been illegitimate.
many Thanks
Jill
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If she was the Helena Maud Parker b Dec Qtr 1895 Cardiff then she was illegitimate
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
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This could be her in 1901 with her sister, Mabel Anne, who has no MMN on GRO either
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X91Y-FVQ
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Thanks for the replies. :D
I've found them both on the 1939 register in Lambeth, London.
Helena is called Nellie.
It's Francis that I'm having trouble tracking down. Specifically where he was born. The 1939 register gives his birth as 17th March 1879 but I've no idea if he is English or, with a name like Kelly, Irish.
I was hoping their marriage certificate would give me a father's name and occupation so I could track Francis through the census'
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It's Francis that I'm having trouble tracking down.
Is there an occupation for him or any other clues?
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Hi, when looking at the war register I noticed a Stanley Kelly listed. It appears he was born in 1920 in Lambeth with mmn as Ridley,
Strange that there is also a birth in Cardiff mq 1918 of a Walter Francis Kelly with mmn Ridley.
Cannot find a suitable Kelly/Ridley marriage.
Have you found Francis death record.
John
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The marriage is not online so it would mean buying a copy
It's strange about the mmn Ridley as son Herbert b 1924 has mmn Parker. Ridley is the family she was living with in 1901 which may account for it
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This could be her in 1901 with her sister, Mabel Anne, who has no MMN on GRO either
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X91Y-FVQ
The marriage is not online so it would mean buying a copy
It's strange about the mmn Ridley as son Herbert b 1924 has mmn Parker.
Ridley is the family she was living with in 1901 which may account for it
Not that this helps with details of Helena's marriage and who the father of Francis Kelly is
but
Mabel A Parker seems to be using the Ridley surname she can be found with Julia Ridley in 1911 as Mabel Ridley and again with Julia 1939 although Mabel has no surname entered and her death Sep 1982 Lambeth as Mabel Ridley born 6 3 1892
1938 Camden Electoral Register
3 Nottingham Court
Julia Ridley
Mabel Annie Ridley
1950/54 Camden Electoral Register
Julia Harriet Ridley
Mabel Annie Ridley
address 24 Betterton Street WC2
I haven’t checked every entry
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Do we know who Mabel and Helena's mother is? Looking around the immediate connections I can;t see any clear relationship between Julia and the Parker girls. There is an adopted son in the family in 1901, which suggests John and Julia Ridley were taking on children.
The son, Philip Bromley, is also a bit of a mystery. I can see a baptism, with father listed but not mother, but no sign of father previously or Philip in 1891
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Birth reg of Philip
BLOMELEY, PHILIP MACKLIN
Mother's Maiden Surname: MACKLIN
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in OF CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 273
Possible school record, 1892
Philip Bromley Ridley, born 1885, Grangetown Elementary And Junior School (Boys)
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Well spotted - I wouldn;t have thought of Blomeley! The baptism has McLean not Macklin as well, just to add t the confusion
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He is not with the Ridleys in 1891, they are in Lambeth!
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Birth reg of Philip
BLOMELEY, PHILIP MACKLIN
Mother's Maiden Surname: MACKLIN
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in OF CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 273
Possible school record, 1892
Philip Bromley Ridley, born 1885, Grangetown Elementary And Junior School (Boys)
He is not with the Ridleys in 1891, they are in Lambeth!
Not the correct pob could this be Phillip on 1891 census
South Western Hospitals
Philip Ridley age 6 (1885) Lambeth
Relationship: Patient
Residence Place: Brixton, Lambeth, London
Piece: 416 Folio: 154
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It appears from electoral registers that Francis & Nellie(Helena) were consistently living in the Lambeth, area. 1927- early 1939 at 17 Commercial Rd. They then appear in 1939 later register at 8 Upper Ground, Stamford St as per war register.
Based on this I am wondering if the dob for Francis is correct as there is this death.
Deaths Dec 1943
KELLY Francis 59 Lambeth 1d 183.
John
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It's Francis that I'm having trouble tracking down.
Is there an occupation for him or any other clues?
Sweeper. Which unfortunately doesn't help :(
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Yes, the Lambeth connections are fascinating.
Not the correct pob could this be Phillip on 1891 census
South Western Hospitals
Philip Ridley age 6 (1885) Lambeth
Relationship: Patient
Residence Place: Brixton, Lambeth, London
Piece: 416 Folio: 154
Could be! There's another school record as well, a Philip Bertie Ridley, born 11.1.85, father John, address 55 Hercules Buildings, admitted to a school in Lambeth, 5.7.89. Previous school none.
Whether that ties in with the Cardiff school record, or not, I do not know :(
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There's another school record as well, a Philip Bertie Ridley, born 11.1.85, father John, address 55 Hercules Buildings, admitted to a school in Lambeth, 5.7.89. Previous school none.
I just put that date of birth into the 1939 Register to look for any Phil*
Three results, one is
Phillip M Blomeley
born 1885
living at 23 Burton Road, Stockwell, Lambeth
Annie E Blomeley and 2 more people are on this record.
;D
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It's Francis that I'm having trouble tracking down.
Is there an occupation for him or any other clues?
Sweeper. Which unfortunately doesn't help :(
Might have missed it on your thread where was Helena living in 1911?
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The Helena (Nellie) and Francis are on the tree of one of my DNA matches
The match of 61 centimorgans on DNA painter gives a list of possible relationships starting with half 3rd cousin. The person's tree is on MyHeritage and Ancestry and neither have much detail. So far I've found no matching surnames.
With the complexities of the Kelly/Parker and Ridley connection I'm not at all surprised that my match is having so much trouble filling in their life details.
I think I'm going to have to order the marriage certificate. If nothing else it might give me some witness names as a clue to how the families fit together.
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It's Francis that I'm having trouble tracking down.
Is there an occupation for him or any other clues?
Sweeper. Which unfortunately doesn't help :(
Might have missed it on your thread where was Helena living in 1911?
I can't find a Nellie/Helena Parker or Ridley on the 1911 census born in Cardiff.
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I can't find a Nellie/Helena Parker or Ridley on the 1911 census born in Cardiff.
I couldn't either - as she married in Cardiff in 1916 thought she might be living in the same area ???
1911 Julia (widowed) & Mabel Ridley are boarding in Bristol
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71Z-JY2
and then find them together on the Electoral Registers in London
earliest I found for Julia Ridley was 1919 address 7 Betterton Street
Perhaps Helena & Francis maybe together in 1911 :-\
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Could Francis KELLY have served in the Military? - can't see this record on Anc*y
Francis Kelly bn 1881 Glamorgan
United Kingdom, Militia Service Records, 1806-1915
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHY2-C77
I think you can view it on F M P
Kelly Francis 1881
1898 British Army Service Records
location - Dinas, Porth, Glamorganshire, Wales
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Could Francis KELLY have served in the Military? - can't see this record on Anc*y
Francis Kelly bn 1881 Glamorgan
United Kingdom, Militia Service Records, 1806-1915
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHY2-C77
I think you can view it on F M P
Kelly Francis 1881
1898 British Army Service Records
location - Dinas, Porth, Glamorganshire, Wales
I'm going to have to wait till I can purchase the marriage certificate. Due to Covid redundancy I now have to decide what I spend my remaining pennies on. The FindMyPast subscription had to go since I can't pay for it monthly. I can keep Ancestry for the time being.
Sadly, I'm certain I'm not alone in this.
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Could Francis KELLY have served in the Military? - can't see this record on Anc*y
Kelly Francis 1881
1898 British Army Service Records
location - Dinas, Porth, Glamorganshire, Wales
This might be him in 1911, Francis Kelly, a lodger in Pontypridd, but he is older
Age 37, born Dinas
Free index
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW6B-CDF
This is interesting!
He may be alive in 1960
Electoral register, Borough of Deptford
68 Endwell Road, SE4
Francis Kelly
Helena M Kelly
Don't have the next two years!
A death
June 1961 Lewisham 5d 52
Kelly, Francis
age 87
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Helena's death,
Deaths Jun 1961
KELLY Helena M 65 Greenwich 5c 532
John
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There is this 1911 census entry on familysearch for a Nellie PARKER born Cardiff, single, housemaid in Llanishen Cardiff BUT her birth year is 1889 :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW66-38Q
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Helena's death,
Deaths Jun 1961
KELLY Helena M 65 Greenwich 5c 532
John
This does sound like the correct person. She would have been 66 in Oct 1961
My DNA match only has a few names on their tree but there is a son for Helena and Francis. Ernest Kelly born 1928. My match says "deceased" but no date.
I have just found the a death record for an Ernest Kelly in Jul 1999 born 1928 in Lewisham. If this is the correct Ernest than a death for Francis also in Lewisham adds weight to it being the correct Francis.
Francis' date of birth is out by 5 years but it seems coincidental that the Francis Kelly on the Electoral register also has a wife called Helena M.
Lewisham, Deptford and Greenwich are all within a few miles of each other.
I've been unable to find a birth and MMN in Dinas/Powys for a Francis Kelly born 2 years either side of 1874.
The closest birth registration to Dinas I could find was in 1879 in Bristol in MMN McDonald
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Electoral register, Borough of Deptford
68 Endwell Road, SE4
Francis Kelly
Helena M Kelly
Year *1951-57
same address there are Butlers and other persons with surname Kelly
both male (initials R & P possible birth Lambeth 1932 mmn Parker,
*D M Kelly (female) *Ernest Kelly
(there is marriage 1949 Southwark Ernest Kelly to D M Johnson)
1959 at that address it’s just Francis & Helena M Kelly & the Butlers
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A death
June 1961 Lewisham 5d 52
Kelly, Francis
age 87
Helena's death,
Deaths Jun 1961
KELLY Helena M 65 Greenwich 5c 532
Deceased online have these burial entries
Francis Kelly buried 25 May 1961 Lewisham
Helena Maud Kelly buried 11 April 1961 Lewisham
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Stanley's death.
Stanley Kelly aged 69 born 28 Mar 1920
Death registered Shepway RD Nov 1989
Volume: 16 Page: 1629
John
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I've ordered the marriage certificate.
A huge thanks to everyone whose contributed.
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To tie up some ends - Philip in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWGX-W73
He dies in 1945
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To tie up some ends - Philip in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWGX-W73
He dies in 1945
Was looking at him Mabel, he married 1909 under surnames Ridley & Bromeley. Had 2 sons,
Herbert 1909-1994
Philip Henry 1910-1976.
John
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To tie up some ends - Philip in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWGX-W73
He dies in 1945
Was looking at him Mabel, he married 1909 under surnames Ridley & Bromeley. Had 2 sons,
Herbert 1909-1994
Philip Henry 1910-1976.
His Probate
Philip Macklin Blomeley of 23 Burton Road Brixton died St Giles Hospital 19 Dec 1945
Probate 21 Dec 1949 to widow Annie Elizabeth & Phillip
He may have served in the Army
Philip Macklin Blomeley
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Gunner
Company: WO 329
Regiment or Corps: Royal Garrison Artillery
Regiment Number: 112005
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
I've ordered the marriage certificate.
Please let us know how you get on :)
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I've finally received the marriage certificate today. They married in Cardiff Registry Office
Francis Kelly aged 31 (born 1885) WIDOWER Private. 3rd Welsh Regiment. Father - Richard Kelly (deceased)
Edited to read - father's profession - Collier
Helena Maud Parker (there is no age noted) No profession. No father's name or profession
Witnesses look like Mrs (this is crossed through) R. Moore and W.Jefferys
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I've finally received the marriage certificate today.
They married in Cardiff Registry Office
Francis Kelly aged 31 (born 1885) WIDOWER
Private. 3rd Welsh Regiment.
Father - Richard Kelly (deceased)
Edited to read - father's profession - Collier
Helena Maud Parker (there is no age noted) No profession. No father's name or profession
Witnesses look like Mrs (this is crossed through) R. Moore and W.Jefferys
Was there an address given?
I’ve had a quick look but have not come across any Army records on Anc*y for a Francis Kelly
in the Welsh Regiment
from
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/welsh-regiment/
3rd (Reserve) Battalion
August 1914 : in Cardiff.
A depot/training unit, it remained in UK throughout the war.
Moved to Barry in August 1914, to Kinmel Park (June 1916) and in May 1917 to Redcar where it remained as part of Tees Garrison.
Francis & Helena married in 1916 here's some info. on Kimnel Park
http://abergelepost.com/kinmel-park-camp/
Kinmel Park Camp was built in 1914 as a training camp for Lord Kitchener’s Army in preparation for serving in the First World War.........
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They married in Cardiff Registry Office
Francis Kelly aged 31 (born 1885) WIDOWER Private. 3rd Welsh Regiment. Father - Richard Kelly (deceased)
Edited to read - father's profession - Collier
I just remembered you gave following detail for Francis - a 6 year age difference :-\
The 1939 register gives his birth as 17th March 1879 but I've no idea if he is English or, with a name like Kelly, Irish.
I was hoping their marriage certificate would give me a father's name and occupation so I could track Francis through the census'
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I was wondering if this might be his medal card served in WR & RWF
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3204916
Medal card of Kelly, Francis
Corps Regiment No Rank
Welsh Regiment 6265 Private
Royal Welsh Fusiliers 59157 Private
Date: 1914-1920
Just found these details on Anc*y
Francis Kelly
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Private
Company: WO 329
Regiment or Corps: Royal Welsh Fusiliers
Regiment Number: 59157
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
possibly not your FK as it states - previously served 2/Welsh Regiment 6265 :-\
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Francis Kelly bn 1881 Glamorgan
United Kingdom, Militia Service Records, 1806-1915
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHY2-C77
It does appear to be indexed on ancestry.
We think it's the same guy?
Francis Kelly
Single
Age 17
Birth year abt 1881
Birth place Dinas, Borth, Glamorgan, Wales
Enlistment date 6 Apr 1898
Enlistment place Mountain Ash Wales
Regiment Royal Monmouthshire Engineers
Service number 2080
In Scotland, Ireland and Wales, Militia Attestation Papers, 1800-1915
But you need to view it on Fold3 :(
Will Fold3 give free access soon, as it is that time of year? Or can anybody look it up elsewhere?
For this sort of period you would hope to see a next of kin given, and their address. It is a militia record though.
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They married in Cardiff Registry Office
Francis Kelly aged 31 (born 1885) WIDOWER Private. 3rd Welsh Regiment. Father - Richard Kelly (deceased)
Edited to read - father's profession - Collier
I just remembered you gave following detail for Francis - a 6 year age difference :-\
The 1939 register gives his birth as 17th March 1879 but I've no idea if he is English or, with a name like Kelly, Irish.
I was hoping their marriage certificate would give me a father's name and occupation so I could track Francis through the census'
It's a big discrepancy isn't it Ladyhawk? I've come across other examples on the 1939 where the date and month is correct by is out by a year - but certainly never 6 years
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I've finally received the marriage certificate today.
They married in Cardiff Registry Office
Francis Kelly aged 31 (born 1885) WIDOWER
Private. 3rd Welsh Regiment.
Father - Richard Kelly (deceased)
Edited to read - father's profession - Collier
Helena Maud Parker (there is no age noted) No profession. No father's name or profession
Witnesses look like Mrs (this is crossed through) R. Moore and W.Jefferys
Was there an address given?
I’ve had a quick look but have not come across any Army records on Anc*y for a Francis Kelly
in the Welsh Regiment
from
https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/welsh-regiment/
3rd (Reserve) Battalion
August 1914 : in Cardiff.
A depot/training unit, it remained in UK throughout the war.
Moved to Barry in August 1914, to Kinmel Park (June 1916) and in May 1917 to Redcar where it remained as part of Tees Garrison.
Francis & Helena married in 1916 here's some info. on Kimnel Park
http://abergelepost.com/kinmel-park-camp/
Kinmel Park Camp was built in 1914 as a training camp for Lord Kitchener’s Army in preparation for serving in the First World War.........
The address on the certificate looks like "The Rink, Cardiff" but the writing is a little difficult to decipher.
I think Helena's says "3 Connet Street"
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Or possibly Comet Street
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It's a big discrepancy isn't it Ladyhawk? I've come across other examples on the 1939 where the date and month is correct by is out by a year - but certainly never 6 years
Even though no age for Helena on m/c perhaps due to Helena’s age he wanted to appear younger ???
The address on the certificate looks like "The Rink, Cardiff" but the writing is a little difficult to decipher.
I think Helena's says "3 Connet Street"
So they were living at different addresses - there is an address 3 Comet Street Roath Cardiff
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Francis Kelly bn 1881 Glamorgan
United Kingdom, Militia Service Records, 1806-1915
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHY2-C77
It does appear to be indexed on ancestry.
We think it's the same guy?
Francis Kelly
Single
Age 17
Birth year abt 1881
Birth place Dinas, Borth, Glamorgan, Wales
Enlistment date 6 Apr 1898
Enlistment place Mountain Ash Wales
Regiment Royal Monmouthshire Engineers
Service number 2080
In Scotland, Ireland and Wales, Militia Attestation Papers, 1800-1915
But you need to view it on Fold3 :(
Will Fold3 give free access soon, as it is that time of year? Or can anybody look it up elsewhere?
For this sort of period you would hope to see a next of kin given, and their address. It is a militia record though.
Place of birth probably Dinas, Porth - in the Rhondda
A bit of digging in old newspapers finds references to "Moira Terrace (the rink)" There seems to have originally been a skating rink on the upper floor of a block of shops/tenements there and later it was a gathering place where events took place
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A bit of digging in old newspapers finds references to "Moira Terrace (the rink)"
There seems to have originally been a skating rink on the upper floor of a block of shops/tenements there and later it was a gathering place where events took place
Great find Mabel - if you look at the street map of where Moria Terrace is situated you can also see that there is a Comet Street close by
https://streetmap.co.uk/street/MOIRA_TERRACE_in_CARDIFF_in_CF24_420365_287747.htm