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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Nottinghamshire => England => Nottinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: emjayf on Sunday 25 October 20 22:02 GMT (UK)
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Hi all. I was looking to see where my relative Henry Fouldes (often Foulds on early records) was in 1861. I have him, age 10, at home with parents John and Mary in 1841. I then found a Henry Foulds, with his widowed Grandmother in Southwell, Elizabeth Birch, in 1861 census. Elizabeth is 84 so she would have been born around 1777.
Henry's mother had been a Mary Foulds (nee Birch - 1806ish to 1843).
I wanted to see how the relationship came about. So I found an Elizabeth Birch on the 1841 census. She was 60 and lived on Water Lane, Oxton, with husband Joseph Birch (65) and daughter Sarah Birch (25).
I went back a bit more and I found a marriage on 6 July 1806 in Melbourne Derbyshire. A Joseph Birch married an Elizabeth Tarpe/Earpe (name is unclear). To me that looks pretty good but I am trying to find their daughter Mary. Can anyone help?
I did find a christening for a Mary Birch which was also in Melbourne, Derbyshire. The date was 11/10/1807 which would be around the right year. The mother comes up as Elizabeth but the father is listed as John not Joseph?
I looked through some other targets but couldn't come up with anything. Can anyone help shine some light? Maybe you can find a christening record for me and I have seen the wrong ones!
Very grateful! Thank you!
MJ
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Another possibility is Elizabeth and Richard BIRCH (blacksmith).
They are in Oxton in 1851, seems like a similar location as Elizabeth in 1861:
Richard BIRCH 76 Newton, Linconshire (retired blacksmith)
Elizabeth BIRCH 76 Oxton
H0107/2134 pg 2
And in 1841 at Oxton:
Richard BIRCH 60 blacksmith
Elizabeth BIRCH 60
Rebecca BIRCH 20
H0107/866/23 pg16
Will look to see if I can find marriage and baptisms of children :)
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Possibility:
Richard BIRCH married Elizabeth STEVENSON in 1794 at Oxton
I can quickly see these baptisms at Oxton:
8 July 1798 Samuel
15 Jun 1802 Joanna
7 Jan 1805 Mary
5 Sept 1813 Sarah
23 March 1817 Rebecca
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"At Oxton, on the 25th ult., aged 83, Mr. Richard Birch, blacksmith."
Stamford Mercury, Friday, Feb. 5, 1858
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Another possibility is Elizabeth and Richard BIRCH (blacksmith).
They are in Oxton in 1851, seems like a similar location as Elizabeth in 1861:
Richard BIRCH 76 Newton, Linconshire (retired blacksmith)
Elizabeth BIRCH 76 Oxton
H0107/2134 pg 2
And in 1841 at Oxton:
Richard BIRCH 60 blacksmith
Elizabeth BIRCH 60
Rebecca BIRCH 20
H0107/866/23 pg16
Will look to see if I can find marriage and baptisms of children :)
That looks better! As I say I found her with grandson, Henry Fouldes, aged 84 in Oxton/Southwell in 1861. She was a widow. The 1851 details look good. Her age should be 2 years younger but we can't trust these fully, can we?! The 1841 census looks fine too.
The marriage and baptism dates are useful! In fact it hits MY Mary a lot better!! Thank you so much for that! So much more fun stuff - I wasn't even exploring that family either! A fun sideline! ;D
Oh, what was the last thing you posted? Was it a death notice for Richard? The date and age would make sense but what, do you think, is "ult"!?
Thanks again
MJ
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No worries, glad to help!
Yes, the last post is a death notice for Richard. "ult." is a typical abbreviation for ultimo (I think) and means the month previous. So he died 25th January 1858 as the notice was published 5th Feb 1858. ;) "inst." is another abbreviation often used - means the current month.
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No worries, glad to help!
Yes, the last post is a death notice for Richard. "ult." is a typical abbreviation for ultimo (I think) and means the month previous. So he died 25th January 1858 as the notice was published 5th Feb 1858. ;) "inst." is another abbreviation often used - means the current month.
Thank you. That is useful. Going back to Henry Foulds I am having trouble finding him on a couple of the censuses.
So I have a Christening note for him saying 17 July 1831. His father was also John Fouldes/Foulds and his mother was Mary (nee Birch) who died when he was around 12.
I have a copy of his census for 1841
On the 1851 census he is at Principal Street, Farnsfield Street, Notts
Henry Foulds (age 19)
In 1861 he is at Southwell, Oxton - not sure of the place.
Henry Fouldes (age 29) cordwainer
Elizabeth Birch (Grandmother almswoman age 84). This shows that Birch connection.
I think, from what I see on the Free BMD website, he got married around June 1866 to Elizabeth Tipping.
Yet I cannot find him on the 1871 census - can you see him and his wife?
I found him on 1881 in Joiner Street, Sheffield. Henry Fouldes (age 49) Labourer in steel works. But where is Elizabeth? Cannot find her at all and I know she is not dead as...
...on the 1891 they are at 10 Andrew Street, 3 Court, Sheffield
Henry Fouldes (age 59 Steel Warehouse Labourer)
Elizabeth Fouldes (age 71 born in Liverpool)
I think he died around December 1899, I guess around Sheffield aged 68. Would need to prove that.
If you can help with those couple of gaps would be helpful!
Thanks again!
MJ
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FreeREG has the Bapts of Richard/Elizabeth as posted by maddys52, extra children are;
ELIZTH 25 Sep 1795 (listed as Ri/Elizth)
ANN 24 Jan 1808
JOANNA was buried 19 Apr 1818 age 16
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I think, from what I see on the Free BMD website, he got married around June 1866 to Elizabeth Tipping.
Yes, 6th May 1866 at St John the Baptist, Penistone (after banns). Henry FOULDES, 34, bachelor (workhouse porter) married Elizabeth TIPPING, 38, widow. Both residing at Thurlstone, His father: John FOULDES, wheelwright (as in the 1841 census) and her father: Christopher VARLOW, engineer. Witnesses: ? TRAVIS and Nathan TAYLOR
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I think Elizabeth was telling a bit of a porkie about her age on her marriage - looks like she was baptised 30 April 1820 at St. Peters Liverpool (parents Christopher and Jane).
She married William ORRELL on 21 Oct 1838 at St. Peter, Bolton-Le-Moors, Lancashire.
Then after he died I think she married John TIPPING Sept qtr 1859 Sheffield 9c/340). There are a number of possibilities for William ORRELL's death, and also a few possibilities for John TIPPING's death.
Will keep looking for them in 1871. :)
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In case you're interested, These look like Elizabeth and William ORRELL's children:
1839 Christopher
1845 Mary Jane
1848 Matilda
1850 William Henry
1852 Hannah
1855 Thomas
1858 James William
Elizabeth TIPPING is on the 1861 census at Sheffield Park with children Mary Ann (15), Thomas (5) and James (3) ORRELL. (RG 9/3493 pg 42)
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In case you're interested, These look like Elizabeth and William ORRELL's children:
1839 Christopher
1845 Mary Jane
1848 Matilda
1850 William Henry
1852 Hannah
1855 Thomas
1858 James William
Elizabeth TIPPING is on the 1861 census at Sheffield Park with children Mary Ann (15), Thomas (5) and James (3) ORRELL. (RG 9/3493 pg 42)
What IS interesting is what happened to her children after she married Henry in 1866?! Initially I thought "has she dumped them to get remarried!?" But I guess the missing 1871 census might be where Elizabeth and her children are. Granted Mary Ann (25) and Thomas (15) might have left home. But I am sure at 13 James Orrell would still be at home? Who knows. Anyhow I am getting sidetracked. Easy to do with this kind of thing! 🤪
MJ
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Yes, that's what I thought too, looking for the children might lead to Elizabeth in 1871, I ran out of time yesterday, couldn't find them easily. Will have another look later toay.
Yes, very easy to get distracted and sidetracked!
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Hi all, I cannot see where someone posted it but a while ago I was curious to find where my relation John Fouldes (born 1837 on Oxton) was in 1851.
In 1841 I have him (age 4 as "Foulds") on a census (Forest Lane, Oxton, Notts) along with father John Foulds (35 Wheelwright), mother Mary Foulds (35) and siblings Elizabeth (15), Henry (10), Thomas (6) and James (7 months).
Yet he is not with his family in 1851.
John (48) is with new wife Martha (40) and kids Elizabeth (24), Thomas (15), James (10) and nephew George Herod (4).
Now someone on here suggested he might be age 12 living with his Aunt Sarah Muller/Miller (nee
Foulds) & Uncle John
Muller/Miller.
It seemed to make some sense BUT Sarah was sister to James Fouldes (John Foulds' Grandad, born in 1796). She had married John Muller/Miller in Beeston (22/1815) but this would make him their GREAT nephew and not just nephew.
I then started using Familysearch.org
and they offered up:
John Foulds (Nephew) age 12 born in Oxton, Nottinghamshire
Living with:
Jane Foster (Servant) age 21 born in Flintham, Nottinghamshire
And
William Hawood (Servant) age 17 born in Calverton, Nottinghamshire.
So now I am not sure! I mean I know nothing of these people mentioned in the second one. Anyone see anything that would make it not so clear as mud to me!? :D
Thanks as always you lovely people!
MJ
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Hi all, I cannot see where someone posted it but a while ago I was curious to find where my relation John Fouldes (born 1837 on Oxton) was in 1851.
In 1841 I have him (age 4 as "Foulds") on a census (Forest Lane, Oxton, Notts) along with father John Foulds (35 Wheelwright), mother Mary Foulds (35) and siblings Elizabeth (15), Henry (10), Thomas (6) and James (7 months).
Yet he is not with his family in 1851.
John (48) is with new wife Martha (40) and kids Elizabeth (24), Thomas (15), James (10) and nephew George Herod (4).
Now someone on here suggested he might be age 12 living with his Aunt Sarah Muller/Miller (nee
Foulds) & Uncle John
Muller/Miller.
It seemed to make some sense BUT Sarah was sister to James Fouldes (John Foulds' Grandad, born in 1796). She had married John Muller/Miller in Beeston (22/1815) but this would make him their GREAT nephew and not just nephew.
I then started using Familysearch.org
and they offered up:
John Foulds (Nephew) age 12 born in Oxton, Nottinghamshire
Living with:
Jane Foster (Servant) age 21 born in Flintham, Nottinghamshire
And
William Hawood (Servant) age 17 born in Calverton, Nottinghamshire.
So now I am not sure! I mean I know nothing of these people mentioned in the second one. Anyone see anything that would make it not so clear as mud to me!? :D
Thanks as always you lovely people!
MJ
1841: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7SC-8Y9
1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDY-TP2
You need to to look at page 12 of that census to see who he is with. Alternately, I’d suggest that you are looking at a sister of his father, who is married, as he isn’t in a FOULD household.
Added: Found it. Also, James aged 57:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDY-TPV
I can’t recall ever seeing ‘GREAT’ on a census.
Jamjar
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Yes, on pg 12 it has James FOULDS as brother-in-law to the head of the household ie John MULLER. As you said, Sarah MULLER was James' sister. As for "nephew", they didn't really make the same distinctions as we do now, so "nephew" and "grand/great-nephew" would be considered the same. (If that makes sense!)
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Where is he in 1861?
I see only one fitting in 1871 and it has birth as 1839, also:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBXR-Y6T
Married:
Jun 1861 Sleaford 7a 620
FOULDS John
JACKLIN Ann
Deaths:
FOULDS, ANN 35
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 07B Page 216
FOULDES, JOHN 77
GRO Reference: 1915 D Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 07B Page 627
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-XL8L
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4Z4Q-KMM
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFY-3LH
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-Q5D
Children:
FOULDS, THOMAS mmn JACKLIN
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS Volume 07B Page 253
Married:
Dec 1892 Worksop 7b 91
FOULDES Thomas
COOPER Martha Hannah
Deaths:
FOULDES, MARTHA HANNAH 67
GRO Reference: 1931 M Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 07B Page 682
FOULDS, THOMAS 92
GRO Reference: 1954 J Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 03C Page 394 Occasional Copy: A
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-XVR5
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSNJ-8FX
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-QRZ
FOULDES, RICHARD mmn JACKLIN
GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS Volume 07B Page 254
Married:
Sep 1890 Worksop 7b 73
FOULDES Richard
KNIGHT Harriett
Death:
FOULDES, RICHARD 44
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 276
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-X27F
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4H8Q-13Z
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSF1-9Q4
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-Q5T
Children:
FOULDES, ELLEN mmn KNIGHT
GRO Reference: 1891 J Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 07B Page 32
Death:
FOULDES, ELLEN 0
GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 07B Page 21
FOULDES, RICHARD mmn KNIGHT
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 07B Page 36
Death:
FOULDES, RICHARD 0
GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 07B Page 16
FOULDES, HORACE mmn KNIGHT
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 07B Page 33
Death:
FOULDES, HORACE 1
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 07B Page 15
FOULDES, ELSIE MAY mmn KNIGHT
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 07B Page 19
FOULDES, HENRY mmn JACKLIN
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS Volume 07B Page 275
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSNJ-8FX
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWS2-8P9
FOULDES, SARAH mmn JACKLIN
GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS Volume 07B Page 293
Death:
FOULDES, SARAH 3
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 07B Page 200
FOULDS, ANN mmn JACKLIN
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 07B Page 318
Death:
FOULDS, ANN 0
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 07B Page 217
FOULDES, BURCH mmn BURCH
GRO Reference: 1874 M Quarter in SOUTHWELL NOTTS Volume 07B Page 353
Death:
FOULDES, BURCH 65
GRO Reference: 1940 M Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 07B Page 1078
Jamjar
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In 1861 at Oxton
John FOULDES 58 Oxton (wheelwright)
Martha 50
John 23
James 20
George HEROD 14 (nephew)
Mary HARVEY 5 (visitor) Southwell
Sarah HARVEY 3 (visitor) Southwell
RG9/2471 pg39
Modified to add:
On familysearch transcribed as FOULDER
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7DV-K3S
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In 1861 at Oxton
John FOULDES 58 Oxton (wheelwright)
Martha 50
John 23
James 20
George HEROD 14 (nephew)
Mary HARVEY 5 (visitor) Southwell
Sarah HARVEY 3 (visitor) Southwell
RG9/2471 pg39
Modified to add:
On familysearch transcribed as FOULDER
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7DV-K3S
So his birth year has changed again.
FOULDES, JOHN mmn BIRCH
GRO Reference: 1838 M Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 15 Page 644
FOULDS, JAMES mmn BIRCH
GRO Reference: 1840 D Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 15 Page 627
Jamjar
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So his birth year has changed again.
FOULDES, JOHN mmn BIRCH
GRO Reference: 1838 M Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 15 Page 644
FOULDS, JAMES mmn BIRCH
GRO Reference: 1840 D Quarter in SOUTHWELL Volume 15 Page 627
Jamjar
I have noticed a lot of dates and ages change all over the place! I know James's birth because I have a copy of his birth certificate. Born 4th October 1840.
So at least that part is pretty fixed.
MJ
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I am just looking at Mary Foulds/Fouldes (nee Birch).
I think she married John Foulds/Fouldes on 5 Apr 1825 in Oxton, Notts. She had 6 children up to and including James Foulds/Fouldes (born 1840). She is on the 1841 census with her husband and her 5 surviving children.
On 4 Apr 1844 he had married Martha Birch (not sure if she was a relative of Mary?).
This is what I would like someone to help me with. I think Mary MAY have died in 1843 - could anyone see this with a burial or death notice?
I also think she MAY have died during around the time of giving birth to a Martha. (There is a death listed in Free BMD for Martha Fouldes in 1843). Is there a burial notice for this?
I find it unusual that John and Martha never had children. Unless they only got married so she could look after the children in his household. Anyhow I will never know that!
Thanks all!
MJ
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The death of Mary FOULDES in Jun qtr 1843 certainly fits. It was registered at Southwell, which is the registration district for Oxton, and she was 38 according to the GRO, which also fits with her age from the 1841 census.
The birth registration of Martha FOULDES at Southwell Mar qtr 1843 has mother's maiden name BIRCH. and she died in the same quarter.
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The death of Mary FOULDES in Jun qtr 1843 certainly fits. It was registered at Southwell, which is the registration district for Oxton, and she was 38 according to the GRO, which also fits with her age from the 1841 census.
The birth registration of Martha FOULDES at Southwell Mar qtr 1843 has mother's maiden name BIRCH. and she died in the same quarter.
Yes that seems to add up with what I already know. The fact that they died in the same quarter makes me think it was a related death.
Cheers
MJ
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Burials Oxton
24 March 1843 Martha Fouldes infant
29 March 1843 Mary Fouldes aged 38
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Burials Oxton
24 March 1843 Martha Fouldes infant
29 March 1843 Mary Fouldes aged 38
Thank you. So kind as always!
MJ