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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Daffern2020 on Tuesday 27 October 20 21:50 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I'm looking for a marriage or really anything that can help me determine the identity of a woman named Mary who was married to a Joseph Slee.
Here it what I have so far:
1851 Channel Islands census: Mary 1817, Wales. (it just says Wales) Married to a Joseph Slee 1819, England. He's a stone mason. She is a Gref Maker? They have a daughter Caroline, born 1844 St Helier, Jersey, Channel Islands.
Now I have Caroline. Hew two marriages and death in 1885 Cardiff, Glamorganshire.
1861, Joseph is now remarried to an Eliza. Both living in Alderney, Channel Islands. I have found there marriage record in 1895 in Hampshire. Both recorded as Widowers. She is Eliza Robinson nee Blandford.
I think I have Mary's death in Portsea Island, Hampshire in 1852.
I have found that Joesph Slee was born in 1920 Great Torrington, Devon to a Joseph and Grace.
1841 census: Has Joseph Slee, occupation: mason. Living in Swansea, Cardiff, Glamorganshire.
So it's either Glamorgan or the Channel Islands where they got married around 1843, but I can't find anything. With her birth most likely in Glamorgan as well.
If anyone can help me find her second name that would be great.
Thanks for reading.
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They have a daughter Caroline, born 1844 St Helier, Jersey, Channel Islands.
Birth registration should give mothers maiden name but am not sure how the system works for Jersey.
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Not found anything to help sorry but to add:
1851 Mary’s occupation was dress maker
You say in 1861 that Joseph is married to Eliza but then later that they were married in 1895.
In 1841 Joseph is in Swansea, Glamorganshire (not sure where Cardiff came from but they are separate towns about 40 miles apart).
The Mary Slee who died in 1852 in Portsea Island was aged 63, rather older than the Mary you are looking for.
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Hi
I can see two marriages Joseph Slee and Mary at the right dates
Great Torrington 26.12. 1831
Joseph Slee and Mary Bowden Joseph widower Mary spinster
witness Valentine and Mary Slee
He signs so possible to match signature
Other at Workington 29.5.1836 to Mary Robinson.
He is a miner. I can't bring up the image so don't know if he signed.
Valentine is bapt 14.4.1822 and is Joseph's brother bapt Gt Torrington 8.10.1820 both children of Joseph and Grace Slee thatcher.
So I'd go for that one.
Forget that he'd only be 11 SORRY
What was I thinking?
Ciderdrinker
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Not found anything to help sorry but to add:
1851 Mary’s occupation was dress maker
You say in 1861 that Joseph is married to Eliza but then later that they were married in 1895.
In 1841 Joseph is in Swansea, Glamorganshire (not sure where Cardiff came from but they are separate towns about 40 miles apart).
The Mary Slee who died in 1852 in Portsea Island was aged 63, rather older than the Mary you are looking for.
Sorry, I did this quite late and I've made so many typos. 1895 - I meant 1859.
Joseph born in 1820 not 1920.
I meant Swansea and not Cardiff.
And yes after I made the post I said Gref Maker out loud and then it was pretty obvious it was Dress Maker.
Thanks for the Portsea Island info.
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Hi
I can see two marriages Joseph Slee and Mary at the right dates
Great Torrington 26.12. 1831
Joseph Slee and Mary Bowden Joseph widower Mary spinster
witness Valentine and Mary Slee
He signs so possible to match signature
Other at Workington 29.5.1836 to Mary Robinson.
He is a miner. I can't bring up the image so don't know if he signed.
Valentine is bapt 14.4.1822 and is Joseph's brother bapt Gt Torrington 8.10.1820 both children of Joseph and Grace Slee thatcher.
So I'd go for that one.
Forget that he'd only be 11 SORRY
What was I thinking?
Ciderdrinker
Thanks for responding.
It looks like the first one is actually his father who remarried again after Grace.
The second I'm not sure on. Because Workington is up north where everything so far has been taking place in the southern region. And the occupation as a miner conflicts with him being recorded as a Mason.
Unfortunately, it's looking like a marriage document doesn't exist. I can't find a birth/baptism for Caroline Slee either. I'm thinking this all took place on St Helier, Jersey, Channel Islands which is why maybe nothing is available.
I might send this over to the specific Channel Islands forum on here.
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Have you considered Mary Owens who Joseph is lodging with in 1841 may be Carolines Mother?
It may be worth looking at 1851 Census to see if she is still in Swansea or her children.
Trish :)
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Have you considered Mary Owens who Joseph is lodging with in 1841 may be Carolines Mother?
It may be worth looking at 1851 Census to see if she is still in Swansea or her children.
Trish :)
Thanks, nice suggestion. Similar age gap between them.
The only thing that has jumped out at me on the 1851 census is a Mary Owens 1811, Glamorgan but living alone. Which does seem a bit odd. Or maybe that's really common?
First child Ann would be 22 in 1851. Can't see her anywhere. Possibly has married and is somewhere else. A couple of Ann Owens that could fit but shes not living with her mother.
Willaim Owens would be 17 in 1851. Can't see anything obvious for him either. (Not too sure what the common age for moving out was back then is?)
This might be it! Although I would have to find her maiden name. With a guess that she is widowed in the census (shame it doesn't say) Taking the age with the census she had Ann at 18. Use the 1817 from 1851 census and she then had her at 12?
Thanks again Trish, I'll look into this more. See if I can find a marriage between Mary & an Owens in that region. Then see I can find Mary with her maiden name's baptism/birth. And then with Portsea Island fact disproved, see if I can find her death.
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Little update: Liking the look of a Mary Rowlands married Thomas Owens and a Mary Williams married an Owen Owens. But that's it so far.
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Have you considered Mary Owens who Joseph is lodging with in 1841 may be Carolines Mother?
It may be worth looking at 1851 Census to see if she is still in Swansea or her children.
Trish :)
But isn't Mary in Jersey with Caroline and Joseph in 1851?
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Have you considered Mary Owens who Joseph is lodging with in 1841 may be Carolines Mother?
It may be worth looking at 1851 Census to see if she is still in Swansea or her children.
Trish :)
But isn't Mary in Jersey with Caroline and Joseph in 1851?
I believe it's the idea that if I can find a Mary Owens and her kids in the 1851 census - in Swansea. Then that discounts her as being Joseph's Mary. If not, then maybe it's looking like he met Mary with her two kids in Swansea, stayed with her. Then when her kids aged up, they married and moved to the Channel Islands and had Caroline.
Joseph seems to have moved around a lot: Devon to Wales to St Helier to Hampshire to St Anne - haven't found his death yet. I wonder if this is typical of Stone Masons?
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think this is Owen Owens & Mary in 1841 to eliminate them
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7WQ-XS5
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If this is him in 1901 in St Margaret at Cliffe, Dover, then he dies later that year
Joseph Slee 79 - b Torrington, retired engineer
Susan Slee 69
RG13; 840; 44; 7
He marries Susan in 1876. 1881 he is an inspector of works in Rotherhithe, (on Ancestry as Joseph Lee) and then they retire to Dover sometime before the 1891 census
I suspect the moving around comes with his work. I'm not sure if he moved to Hampshire, or more precisely the Isle of Wight, as the marriage was at Cowes, or just was married there.
I highly suspect he was back in South Wales in the 1880s. There's a reference to Joseph Slee as foreman of works in a newspaper report on the opening of a new dry dock in Cardiff in 1884 - it would fit his occupation in 1881 and if he specialised in the masonry of dock building you can imagine him moving from one project to another. There is a maritime link between Swansea, Jersey, Cowes and Rotherhithe (and Dover)
Interestingly the south pier of St Helier docks was constructed 1841-46 with the north pier following, between 1853 and 59
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And the breakwater at Braye Harbour, Alderney was built by the British to protect ships of the Navy between 1847 and 1864
There's a potential death for Eliza Slee in Dover in 1875 - the marriage to Susan was also in Dover
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If this is him in 1901 in St Margaret at Cliffe, Dover, then he dies later that year
Joseph Slee 79 - b Torrington, retired engineer
Susan Slee 69
RG13; 840; 44; 7
He marries Susan in 1876. 1881 he is an inspector of works in Rotherhithe, (on Ancestry as Joseph Lee) and then they retire to Dover sometime before the 1891 census
I suspect the moving around comes with his work. I'm not sure if he moved to Hampshire, or more precisely the Isle of Wight, as the marriage was at Cowes, or just was married there.
I highly suspect he was back in South Wales in the 1880s. There's a reference to Joseph Slee as foreman of works in a newspaper report on the opening of a new dry dock in Cardiff in 1884 - it would fit his occupation in 1881 and if he specialised in the masonry of dock building you can imagine him moving from one project to another. There is a maritime link between Swansea, Jersey, Cowes and Rotherhithe (and Dover)
Interestingly the south pier of St Helier docks was constructed 1841-46 with the north pier following, between 1853 and 59
Great Work! I think Joseph Slee now holds the title in my tree for the most marriges.
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think this is Owen Owens & Mary in 1841 to eliminate them
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7WQ-XS5
Thank you for looking into this. That really helps. Interestingly I have found a family of Rowland's who also lived in St Helier in 1851. With the wife and thier children all born in Wales. With the last family member Caroline Rowland apparently the only step daughter to the head of the household. I mean I doubt it's connected but I did notice it when looking for a Mary Rowland.
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And the breakwater at Braye Harbour, Alderney was built by the British to protect ships of the Navy between 1847 and 1864
There's a potential death for Eliza Slee in Dover in 1875 - the marriage to Susan was also in Dover
Eliza died in 1875 and married Susan in 1876. Thanks, that looks good. I've also found a death for a Mary Slee in January, Swansea Glamorganshire 1859. I wonder if maybe she returned to her country for her death (I don't know if that's a thing?) And considering it was only a year later he married Susan from Eliza. His second marriage to Eliza was April 1859. I wonder if he was the type of guy who didn't wait around?
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from the GRO index, the Mary Slee whose death was registered in Swansea in 1859 was under a year old, birth registered dec qtr 1858, death registered jan qtr 1859.
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Okay, what about this one. Slightly clutching at straws. I've found a death for a Mary Slee in 1858 in Holsworthy, died age 48. Holsworthy is in Torridge - 15 minutes from Great Torrington. 48 matches Mary Owens in the 1841 census. And from what I can see I don't think this death belongs to either of the Mary's in that 1831 marriage of Joseph's father.
Possibly moved back to Devon after St Helier and then Mary died there. I've noticed that Joseph's brother Richard also moved to Horfield, Gloucesteshire in 1861 to 1881. Which is where Caroline pops up again now married in 1881. Maybe she stayed with her father's family after her mother died and followed them to Horfield. Thoughts?
Still working on the Owens front.
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"...Now I have Caroline. Hew two marriages and death in 1885 Cardiff, Glamorganshire."
Can you give more information please. When / where / who...for the two marriages.
What children does Caroline have.....when / where / names please.
Can you list the information on the two certificates. How does Caroline name her father.
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"...Now I have Caroline. Hew two marriages and death in 1885 Cardiff, Glamorganshire."
Can you give more information please. When / where / who...for the two marriages.
What children does Caroline have.....when / where / names please.
Can you list the information on the two certificates. How does Caroline name her father.
Okay, first marriage:
I don't have Caroline's first marriage. I have found one for a Caroline Slee in 1864 Gloucstershire, England but I'm not sure that's her.
She pops up again on the 1881 census married to a man named Thomas Turner, 1843 to 1881. He dies that same year. He was a private in the 61st regiment. They have seven children together all living in Horfield, Gloucestershire.
Their first child Walter Turner was born in Dublin, Ireland in 1865. Second child Eliza Turner was born at sea. Third child John Turner was born in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Forth child, Rose Ann Turner was born in Newbridge, Kild, Ireland. The last three were all born in Horfield, Gloucestershire. Frederick Turner, Bertie Turner and Thomasina Daisy Turner.
Second marriage:
In 1882 Horfield, Gloucstershire she married an Isaac Cloughely. His profession is a pensioner. Caroline lists her father as Joseph Slee, occupation: Mason. Caroline is also listed as a widow. The marriage was in the presence of a William Williams and an Elizabeth Hart.
They had a son together, Joseph Cloughely in 1883 but he dies in 1884, Cardiff. Carolines dies a year after in 1885.
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Well, I've found Joseph Slee on the 1871 census. Living in Dover with Eliza and stepson George. Which I think is everything you can find on him. (found it on familysearch, doesn't seem to be available on ancestry). Thanks to everyone for making his time-line so complete. It's a shame his first wife is so elusive in comparison.
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This looks really interesting. Mary Evans. Jersey Heritage Site.
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that's a good find. But it may eliminate the Mary Owens from 1841. There is a marriage in Llangennith 16 Oct 1828 for Leyshon Owen & Mary Evans, but they are living in Reynoldston in 1841. There doesn't seem to be another Owen(s) + Evan(s) marriage in Glamorgan around the right time.
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The Caroline Slee who marries in Gloucestershire in 1864 isn't yours. She's b 1837, daughter of Edward
I suspect we may need to look in Ireland or elsewhere for their marriage
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Case closed everyone!
Another researcher came to my aid. The document did detail Caroline's baptism to Joseph Slee the stone mason but also a Mary of William and Ann Evans. More information than I ever could have hoped.
Thanks to everyone who helped out. When in doubt, type the names into google over and over again.