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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: guest189040 on Friday 30 October 20 10:32 GMT (UK)
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Which have released their results of tests into the effectiveness of a range of facemasks that are available at well known retailers.
Do note that the Which tests used particle sizes that were far larger than the Corona virus itself and hence bear this in mind.
The report highlights that a facemask is not to protect you, it is to protect others from particles that you exhale.
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/face-masks/article/best-reusable-face-masks-awLeA3A6XoZD
Stay safe.
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And here is the report on disposable face coverings:
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/face-masks/article/disposable-face-mask-buying-guide-aEpLK3I5DMdR
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And here is the report on disposable face coverings:
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/face-masks/article/disposable-face-mask-buying-guide-aEpLK3I5DMdR
A postscript to this says that disposable gloves are unnecessary for most people.
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We could do with a review of the effectiveness of clear face shields too.
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We could do with a review of the effectiveness of clear face shields too.
A while ago I read that they weren't very effective as breath, etc was able to escape from the open bottom. I think it was in relation to hairdressers. Not siure where I read it though - maybe Guardian!
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Have a look at "space helmet face coverings"! I came across them while browsing around this thread.
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We could do with a review of the effectiveness of clear face shields too.
We could actually do with someone/anyone knowing exactly what they were talking about :-X That might make a change :-\
Not very sure I'm going to be convinced in the short-term.
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We could do with a review of the effectiveness of clear face shields too.
Being the type of Engineer that I am I do kniw a bit more than average about air flows.
A Faceshield will offer protection to both the wearer and the person in close proximity.
The degree of protection will be all ifs and buts, for example the duration that the close physical separation exists and the physical heath of those not just those close together but also any other person in the same environment.
The safest Faceshield will be an air powered one where the air delivered to the Faceshield is filtered.
The filtration is a problem as the size of the Covid virus is c0.1 micro meters hence very small and filtering to this level is quite a complex task.
If you see Nurses and Drs wearing what looks like a hood with a hose at the rear then this is the type I am explaining. They cost over £300 per unit and goodness knows how expensive the filters are, they were pretty expensive when I last ordered something similar.
Hence any testing of Faceshields will be suject to very wide margins of error
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I think these were the ones that I read about.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-plastic-face-shields-arent-a-safe-alternative-to-cloth-masks
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We could do with a review of the effectiveness of clear face shields too.
It looks like there's already been research into this, and it suggests face shields by themselves don't offer much protection.
Research from 2014 suggests they may offer some additional protection against infectious airborne particles for the wearer, when used in conjunction with a respirator. It's seems reasonable to think this may apply to Covid.
Face shields ineffective at trapping aerosols, says Japanese supercomputer
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/face-shields-ineffective-trapping-aerosols-japanese-supercomputer-coronavirus
Face masks far more protective against COVID-19 than face shields, CDC experts
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201008/Face-masks-far-more-protective-against-COVID-19-than-face-shields-warn-CDC-experts.aspx
Face Shields Not a Good Mask Substitute
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200901/face-shields-no-good-as-substitute-for-masks-study-shows#1
COVID-19: Considerations for Wearing Masks
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html#face-shields
Efficacy of face shields against cough aerosol droplets from a cough simulator [2014]
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24467190/
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I think we've been looking at the same reports, cuffie :)
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It was interesting to note that in some of today's advertisements for face masks their supposed percentage anti bacterial effectiveness was included. How scientific that percentage is or how it was arrived at I don't know. There was no mention of anti-viral effectiveness.
:)
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Somewhat related to the conversation, the UK nations' guidelines on face coverings.
The guidelines for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are explicit that face shields/visors do not meet the description of the required face coverings. Scotland's guidelines state that evidence shows face shields do not provide adequate protection (but don't reference the evidence). Wales' guidelines state the protection offered by face shields is unknown.
On a related note, Northern Ireland's guidelines recommend not using face coverings with vents/valves.
UK
Face coverings: when to wear one, exemptions, and how to make your own
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own
Scotland
Coronavirus (COVID-19): public use of face coverings
https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-public-use-of-face-coverings/
Wales
Face coverings: guidance for public
https://gov.wales/face-coverings-guidance-public
Northern Ireland
Coronavirus (COVID-19): face coverings
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/coronavirus-covid-19-face-coverings
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I believe that is worth bearing on mind is that a virus will be most likely be transmitted in or on a larger droplet. This makes it more likely to be trapped in a face covering than it would do otherwise.
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Folks, you might have already seen this,
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html
Skoosh.
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It doesn't bear thinking about that when we walk through the supermarket and shopping mall, etc., millions of tiny bugs, germs, virus are already lazily circulating; floating in the air, ready to land on anything that interrupts their trajectory - and that means by the time we reach home, we're covered in the pesky things.
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That was a very good article. Great informative graphics presented in a way to make it easy to understand.
It does explain why many of us avoided going shopping, having meals out, going to pubs or going into other people's homes.
Trystan
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Yes, thanks for that Skoosh - a lot of food for thought.
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Excellent, Skoosh. thanks for linking it. I remember seeing the first part somewhere but not the whole article.
I had to go into the customer service counter of a store last week and felt very vulnerable, although I was wearing a mask and kept distance. It was close to the door and I was only there for about 10 mins. It was the first time I'd been into a supermarket since March!
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Rena you are right - & many of us have commented on how well we've avoided colds, tummy bugs etc, thanks to all the extra precautions. Even the grandchildren, apart from the usual start of school cold, have been very healthy, thank goodness. Probably helped by the fact my daughter & their school have them outside at every opportunity - plenty of Vitamin D!
On the face masks issue - I just went to the hairdressers - first time since March. My home-sewn mask which is perfectly adequate in shopping contexts was a nightmare during an hour of talking :o It kept slipping down as my jaw moved up and down, so I was constantly adjusting it, which you're not supposed to do. I feel even more admiring now of all those people who have to wear them for hours on end. My hairdresser said 'oh I've got used to it now" (& she wears a shield too).
Yes I know, my family have told me for years I talk too much......... ::) ;D
Pat
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https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html
I'm glad now that the little shop in the next street has draughts from the door which won't stay shut. I used to feel sorry for the staff in winter.
The companion article is interesting too. Spain's contact tracing system scores low for effectiveness.
I tried to read comments but they are in Spanish.
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I noticed that the article said that contaminated surfaces were now considered not to be much of a risk. Does this mean I can be a bit less cautious about groceries, mail etc coming into the house? We were originally told about how long the virus survives on various surfaces, so has that changed? I shall now be more concerned about being near other people.
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I noticed that the article said that contaminated surfaces were now considered not to be much of a risk. Does this mean I can be a bit less cautious about groceries, mail etc coming into the house? We were originally told about how long the virus survives on various surfaces, so has that changed? I shall now be more concerned about being near other people.
That made me feel a bit happier. I still set new items aside for a couple of days and wash my hands. Another piece of research showed the virus remained on items longer if they were in the dark. I now put new stuff on an open shelf instead of shutting tins and packets in a cupboard. I open mail, read it, add it to "keep" pile or recycle bag, then wash hands.
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Please be skeptical about changing the routine you have been following on the strength of one article.
If your routine has kept you and your family Covid free then ask yourself the question, do I really need to change my routine, it has worked so far?
Wait a week and no doubt new research will contradict other reports.
On the matter of time isolation of incoming goods, different research has pointed to the virus being active for far longer than initial research showed.
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At the start of the pandemic I used to don plastic gloves to open the post and any parcels. I don't do that now, I open envelopes, take the contents out, put the envelopes in the recycling and wash my hands. Any items such as bills have been printed, folded and put into envelopes by machine so I know they haven't been touched anyway, only the envelope has been touched. I do the same with parcels but if I feel unsure about the contents I wipe them with a soapy cloth. Must admit I still wipe down my groceries when they're delivered, I'd love to be confident enough to stop that but having been told how some people are behaving in supermarkets I don't feel happy handling things that may have been mauled by people who behave irresponsibly.
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Please be skeptical about changing the routine you have been following on the strength of one article.
If your routine has kept you and your family Covid free then ask yourself the question, do I really need to change my routine, it has worked so far?
Wait a week and no doubt new research will contradict other reports.
On the matter of time isolation of incoming goods, different research has pointed to the virus being active for far longer than initial research showed.
I'm now exposing them to daylight (sunshine is likely to be in short supply) and air, (including occasional blasts of cold air & gales whenever the back door opens) both of which should hasten demise of any nasties. They are still quarantining, only in open sight instead of being shut away.
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I'm now exposing them to daylight (sunshine is likely to be in short supply) and air, (including occasional blasts of cold air & gales whenever the back door opens) both of which should hasten demise of any nasties. They are still quarantining, only in open sight instead of being shut away.
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That's exactly what happens with my quarantined items too. And I still wash other items before putting them in the fridge. I've been doing it since earlier in the year, and while mildly inconvenient I'd rather err on the side of caution. Stay safe everyone.
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At the start of the pandemic I used to don plastic gloves to open the post and any parcels. I don't do that now, I open envelopes, take the contents out, put the envelopes in the recycling and wash my hands. Any items such as bills have been printed, folded and put into envelopes by machine so I know they haven't been touched anyway, only the envelope has been touched. I do the same with parcels but if I feel unsure about the contents I wipe them with a soapy cloth. Must admit I still wipe down my groceries when they're delivered, I'd love to be confident enough to stop that but having been told how some people are behaving in supermarkets I don't feel happy handling things that may have been mauled by people who behave irresponsibly.
I do all that and still use gloves for groceries, post etc. I am allergic to many things including cats and in recent years have only stroked or handled our wonderful outside cat with gloves on. Taking this precaution has stopped my asthma attacks due to the cat so I apply the same precautions to the virus
Kay
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I expect I will continue with the washing and quarantining, as I have been. Even if the evidence were stronger, it is hard to stop these things once you have started.