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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Jane Sharp on Thursday 05 November 20 07:59 GMT (UK)
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Hello ! I am new here. Thankyou for reading my post.
Being born and living in Australia, the main thing that stumps me when conducting family research is the listings of current and old districts in census and baptism books.
I am seeking to locate and clarify the birth registration of my Great Grandfather "James Sharp" born January 6 - 1878 or 1879 ?
The 1939 register which I have verified from my Dad is him, states his Date of Birth as January 6 1879.
I have found a Baptism listing which maybe my James Sharp, but Date of Birth is written as January 6 1878, St James, Collyhurst, Manchester, Lancashire. This baptism was not conducted until September 1878.
There is also an 1881 and 1891 census listing of a son James Sharp age 3 and age 13, living at 149 Cheltenham Street, Collyhurst, which was around the corner from the aforementioned St James Church, Collyhurst.
On the General Register Office of births index, there are James Sharp registrations and I'm not sure which one it would be:
1877: Dewsbury, Bradford Yorkshire, Hackney, Manchester, Sturminster, Bradford Yorkshire, West Derby & Toxteth Park
1878: St George in the East, Radford, Holborn, Preston, Whitehaven, Tynemouth, Bradford Yorkshire, Ely, Burton Upon Trent.
1879: Gateshead, Horsham, Barton Upon Irwell, Doncaster in the counties of York and Nottingham, Halifax, Salford, Whitehaven, Keighley, Richmond-Surrey, Newark.
1880: Hartlepool, Tynemouth, St. George in the East, St. George Hanover Square, Hunslet, Aston, Pontefract, Rochdale
Are any of these districts in the vicinity of Collyhurst ?
He, and his father James Sharp (senior) were both police constables, so I would think that he wouldn't get his own year of birth being 1879 wrong on the 1939 register? Or maybe the census officer listed it incorrectly ? Or maybe his birth was never registered ?
I am not sure what to do next and hoping someone can help me. Thankyou.
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Collyhurst is in Manchester:
"Collyhurst is an inner city area of Manchester, England, 1.5 miles (2.4 km) northeast of the city centre on Rochdale Road (A664) and Oldham Road (A62), bounded by Smedley, Harpurhey and Monsall to the north, Miles Platting to the east, Ancoats to the south, and the River Irk to the west. Prominent buildings include two Roman Catholic churches, St Patrick's and St Malachy's." (Wiki)
Barton upon Irwell is in Salford which, although historically a separate city, is nowadays part of the Manchester conurbation. However, it is the other side of Manchester from Collyhurst
As his birthday is January, his birth would most likely be registered in the 1st quarter (Jan - Mar) of the year
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I wouldn't get overly concerned about it being a year out.
For all anyone knows, it's a case of someone else reporting
eg "I know his birthday is 6th jan and he's 40, so his birth year is (and getting it a year out when doing the sums) ".
Do you know the mother's maiden name?
SHARP James BROWN Mary Marriage:
1878 Miles Platting (Collyhurst), Albert Memorial Archives+, Manchester Central Library
Marriages Jun 1878 (>99%)
BROWN Mary Manchester 8d 243
Haselden John Manchester 8d 243
SHARP James Manchester 8d 243
Swift Harriet Manchester 8d 243
SHARP, WILLIAM BROWN 1880 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 343
SHARP, THOMAS BROWN 1882 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 314
SHARP, CHARLES BROWN 1884 D Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 274
SHARP, EDITH BROWN 1887 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 266 (not on 1891)
SHARP, SAMUEL BROWN 1890 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 282 (not on 1891)
SHARP, MARY BROWN 1892 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 297
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Welcome to Rootschat Jane :D
MQ 1879 births for James Sharp
SHARP, JAMES PARKER
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in BARTON UPON IRWELL Volume 08C Page 667
SHARP, JAMES ATKINSON
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 836
SHARP, JAMES MAGEE
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in HORSHAM Volume 02B Page 326
MQ 1878 birth for James
SHARP, JAMES ASHMORE
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST Volume 01C Page 403
SHARP, JAMES COX
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in RADFORD Volume 07B Page 254
SHARP, JAMES LEACH
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 619
SHARP, JAMES PENFOLD
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in HOLBORN Volume 01B Page 733
SHARP, JAMES WOOD
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in WHITEHAVEN Volume 10B Page 588
This is for information. You did list these but the above includes mother's maiden name.
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The 1881 census has a Sharp family living at 149, Cheltenham Street, Manchester, Lancashire
Parents James and Mary. James born 1854 in Manchester, occ. Police Constable.
Sons James (1878) and William (1880) both born Manchester.
Registration district Manchester
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 4002
Folio 105
Page 96
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There is a likely birth registration for William
SHARP, WILLIAM BROWN
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 343
Most likely marriage for James and Mary
Marriages Jun 1878
BROWN Mary Manchester 8d 243
SHARP James Manchester 8d 243
Added: Sorry Pauline I've repeated some of what you have given already.
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I'd try this one
SHARPS, JAMES MMN - BROWN First Quarter 1878 in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 316
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I can see the baptism that you found Jane. The original image states:-
18th September 1878 - b. Jan 6 '78
James, parents James and Mary Sharp living at 149 Cheltenham Street. Father's occupation is Engine Fitter.
This address is the same one in the 1881 census with father's occupation as Police Constable. One has to assume that James Snr changed his occupation between 1878 and 1881.
Finding James Snr's police employment record may well help in establishing when he joined the Police.
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That marriage is available to view on Ancestry:
Albert Memorial Church, Collyhurst - 13 June 1878
James Sharp - 24, bachelor, Driller. Father: Thomas, Joiner
Mary Brown - 27, spinster, Cotton Polisher. Father: Thomas, Bookbinder
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Well spotted Iolaus, that looks like the right James. Must remember to check for spelling options next time I look!! ::)
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William's baptism at St James, Collyhurst - 17 March 1880
William, born 4 March 1880 - son of James (POLICEMAN) and Mary, of 149 Cheltenham Street.
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Sounds like we have the right family then BumbleB, same address again which is the one on the 1881 census.
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Same address in 1891 - RG12/3245 folio 72 page 31
Plus two more children, Thomas and Charles. James is still a Policeman.
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SHARP, EDITH BROWN 1887 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 266 (not on 1891)
SHARP, SAMUEL BROWN 1890 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 282 (not on 1891)
SHARP, MARY BROWN 1892 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 297
Potential deaths for potential siblings
SHARP, EDITH 1887 S Quarter in Manchester Volume 8D Page 224
SHARP, SAMUEL 1890 D Quarter in Manchester Volume 8D Page 257
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Date of birth and registration of birth are not always the same (thing) month or year. (example; say Born November 1928 and registered Jan 1929)
GRO index of registration of births or local register office of births
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I'd try this one
SHARPS, JAMES MMN - BROWN First Quarter 1878 in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 316
Thankyou - but I could not locate this one on the GRO index ?
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Well, it is there, so you can just go ahead and order it.
Everything you require to submit the order has been given
Pauline
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Just so that you can see how it appears on the GRO website, here it is again.
SHARPS, JAMES BROWN
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 316
Make sure you are on the Search the GRO online index. Indicate Birth by clicking the little round circle. Fill in all the details as shown above, click the blue Search button and it should appear.
To order the cert as a pdf, click on the little white button to the left of the name, then click on the blue PDF button. You then get taken through the order process. A PDF costs £7. A cert costs £11.
This is the register/log in page:-
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Are you registered on the above website? If not then you need to register first before you can order the PDF. Once you have done that you can then click on the Search the GRO Online Index which is in a box on the right hand side.
Apologies if you know all this but your reply suggests you are not clear about it.
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Just so that you can see how it appears on the GRO website, here it is again.
SHARPS, JAMES BROWN
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 316
Make sure you are on the Search the GRO online index. Indicate Birth by clicking the little round circle. Fill in all the details as shown above, click the blue Search button and it should appear.
To order the cert as a pdf, click on the little white button to the left of the name, then click on the blue PDF button. You then get taken through the order process. A PDF costs £7. A cert costs £11.
This is the register/log in page:-
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Are you registered on the above website? If not then you need to register first before you can order the PDF. Once you have done that you can then click on the Search the GRO Online Index which is in a box on the right hand side.
Apologies if you know all this but your reply suggests you are not clear about it.
I just wanted to say a big thankyou - and that you are all so very helpful ! I feel very welcomed and supported :)