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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Jang on Thursday 05 November 20 08:11 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone find a baptism for the Margaret Caldwell who died in 1859 in Canongate, Midlothian, aged 63, according to the SP death index. Her mother's maiden name is given as Caldwell - does this make it likely that she was illegitimate and her baptism wouldn't have been recorded?
Jan
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This looks like Margt Caldwell on the 1851 census
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1795
Relationship: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: St Quivox, AYR
Civil Parish: Edinburgh St Mary
County: Midlothian
Address: 7 London St.
Four children on census eldest born Cragie, Ayr, youngest Edinburgh.
Three baptisms on SP in Ayrshire around that time.
Colin
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Two marriage records for Margaret, their children born Craigie.
CALDWELL CHARLES MARGARET ARTHUR 11/06/1824 Craigie
CALDWELL CHARLES MARGARET ARTHUR 15/06/1824 Coylton
Colin
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In 1851 Margarets husband Charles, born Ayrshire, is a Butler, he is at 18 Moray Place, Edinburgh St Stephen.
Colin
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Children of Charles & Margaret born Craigie, Agnes 1825, John 1828, Grace 1832 & David 1836 (None born Edinburgh.
In 1841 Margaret & Children in Cragie, Charles a Servant in Neilston. Renfrew.
So they moved to Edinburgh between 1841 & 1851. Possible births below which seem to fit this family but do I have the correct Margaret.
I cannot find an Arthur who married a Caldwell, so is the death record an error?
Margaret Arthur
Mother Agnes Burns
Father David Arthur
Birth 13/11/1793
Baptism 15/11/1793, St. Quivox and Newton, Ayr
Charles Caldwel
Mother Grizle Shaw
Father John Caldwel
Baptism 06/01/1796, Coylton, Ayr
Colin
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Hi Jang,
The first thing I would do is get the actual death record for Margaret Caldwell who died in 1859 from SP. This should give you details of her parentage. It will only cost you a minimal amount of money.
Do you know anything else about her? Looking at the information given here by ColC this would be for a married lady. Was your Margaret married or single?
One thing to remember is that pre official registration in Scotland (1855) lots of Births/Marriages/Deaths were not recorded or they have been lost or destroyed over the years.
Dorrie
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Thanks Colin, for finding Margaret and Charles Caldwell and family. Margaret's age fits with the death I found except for her mother's maiden name. If that information is correct then it suggested that she was illegitimate, taking her mother's surname. But if that info isn't right then this Margaret Caldwell is a good fit.
dowdstree, yes I need to get the death certificate - I went to do that before I posted but found my Australian MC giftcard isn't accepted by SP. Off to the PO tomorrow to get one that is :-)
I'm interested in a Margaret Caldwell I found in 1851:
Regent Street Edinburgh Parish Duddingston
Catherine Nairn Head Widow 68 Proprietor Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Helen Preston Servant Unmarried 16 House Serv Midlothian, Scotland
Margaret Caldwell Servant Unmarried 65 House Serv Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland
I know the age doesn't fit with the one who died in 1859 but maybe the informant didn't know her details. I couldn't find this one in the 1861 census.
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I have a few spare credits for SP so I will look at the 1859 Death of Margaret Caldwell and get back to you.
Hopefully it will be the lady you are looking for.
Dorrie
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Thank you Dorrie, that's very generous of you. I hope I can return the favour sometime. Jan
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Jang the earlier post is correct you need the cert.
1871 Charles & Margaret are in Hutchesontownv also daughter Grace.
It looks like that Margaret died there 1872, no MMN.
Charles died Coylton 1875.
Colin
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Thanks Colin, now I can eliminate that one.
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Hi Jan,
I have the death certificate but the handwriting is not all that clear. Also I have tried to crop it to put it on here without success (not very good at this sort of thing, sorry)
Basically it says - Margaret ? could be Leitch, widow of a Private Soldier - Parents are given as Robert Caldwell, Printer (deceased) and Margaret Caldwell m.s. Caldwell. The death was registered by her brother Robert Caldwell.
If you would like to see the entry for yourself please pm me and I can email it to you.
Hope this helps one way or another.
Dorrie
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Hope this works now.
Dorrie
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Here's the other entry to confirm what's written...
LEITCH MARGARET 63
CALDWELL (mms)
1859
685/3 214 Canongate
Annie
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From Dorrie's details, could this be connected to Margaret?
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYSG-3X1
James Leitch born 12 Jan 1824 in St Cuthberts to John Leitch and Margaret Caldwell
Also saw this 1841 entry:
Margaret Leitch 40 Paper Mill Rag Cutter
Agnes Leitch 18 Paper Mill Rag Cutter
Euphemia Mcdougal 27 Paper Mill Rag Cutter
Address: Kirkhill, Pennicuik
Added: From 1851, this Margaret in Pennicuik likely not connected as she is showing as unmarried www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5903d5a3e9379091b1f3b481/margaret-leitch-1851-midlothian-penicuik-1797-?locale=en
Monica
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From the National Archives, trying to check for military details for a John Leitch to firm up as to whether this could be the right details. Too many to guess unfortunately .
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=john%20leitch&_dss=range&_sd=1800&_ed=1850&_ro=any&_st=adv
Monica
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The only Robert Caldwell that I can see (for brother to Margaret and death informant) is a Robert born c. 1802 in Glasgow and living in Edinburgh.
I also think his parents are likely a Robert Caldwell and a Margaret THOMSON. Not unusual for people to forget details when reporting information to the registrar. This couple had a numbert of children in Edinburgh, including a Margaret in 1795 www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VQCH-3LN
Would be good to be able to check Robert's Snr's occupation from a good source to see if he showed as a printer by occupation.
Monica
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Here's the other entry to confirm what's written...
LEITCH MARGARET 63
CALDWELL (mms)
1859
685/3 214 Canongate
Annie
It is also recorded as:-
CALDWELL
MARGARET
63
CALDWELL
1859
685/3 214
Canongate
Colin
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Maybe the couple posted by Monica.
ROBERT CALDWELL married MARGARET THOMSON
21/08/1789 St Cuthbert'
The only Robert Caldwell to Margaret Caldwell marriage I can see on SP took place in 1739.
Colin
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Dorrie, many thanks for the certificate. While not the right Margaret Caldwell, it does help to eliminate her from my search. Thanks also, Monica, for details of the Leitch family - sadly, not mine.
My Margaret Caldwell (sometimes Coldwells) is proving very elusive. I've searched on SP, Ancestry, FindMyPast and FamilySearch without success.
In the 1851 census she was Margaret Caldwell, unmarried, house servant, aged 65, born Dalkeith, living in Duddingston.
In the 1841 census she was Margaret Coldwells, servant, age 52, born Midlothian, living in Dalkeith.
I couldn't find her in 1861, so it seemed likely that she died between 1851 and 1861.
I found a possible baptism for a Margaret Coldwells on 31 August 1785 Dalkeith to John Coldwells and Alison Sanderson but was able to eliminate this one as she appears in the 1851 census in Stobsmills as Mrs Margt Philp with her brother John and mother Mrs Alison Coldwell.
I do have the certificate for the unknown Coldwalls who was buried on 8 June 1851 in Dalkeith:
Widow Coldwalls, residence and parish Musselburgh, Order gotten by George Watson, relation a friend, cause Paliaze? 60 years
but this seems unlikely as she was married and died in Dalkeith only a few months after the 1851 census entry.
Thanks again everyone for your feedback - I think this one goes back in the "too hard" basket!
Jan
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My Margaret Caldwell (sometimes Coldwells) is proving very elusive. I've searched on SP, Ancestry, FindMyPast and FamilySearch without success.
See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
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Thanks for the reference, Forfarian, good advice - I've used SP extensively in my research. But Margaret Coldwells/Caldwell etc is particularly elusive :-)
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Hi Jan the only thing I can add is if Margaret died before 1855 (Civil Registration) then her death may not have been recorded in the Old Parish Registers. These were usually written up by the minister or Session Clerk. Over the years lots of these records were lost or destroyed unfortunately. Some were kept in damp church vaults and literally disintegrated with time.
Keep safe,
Dorrie
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Jan, can I ask something? What is the info you already have on Margaret Caldwell? Is she related to one of your lines?
You seem to have her as unmarried too? Have you confirmed this elsewhere?
Monica
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Good point Dorrie, I suspect that she did die before 1855.
Monica, I only assumed Margaret Coldwells was unmarried because of the 1851 census. I'm trying to work out how she's connected to my family. In the 1841 census with her is a Jean Neil age 6, who was the illegitimate daughter of Jane Lamond (the sister of my 3g grandfather) and William Neil. Jane Lamond was convicted of theft and transported to Tasmania in 1851, leaving her daughter in Scotland.
I'm guessing that Margaret Coldwells took care of her, so she must be related somehow.
Sorry if I'm confusing you :-) It's a complicated puzzle!
PS William Neil married in September 1835, just 5 months after Jean Neil was born!
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I should have added that Jane Lamond was the daughter of James Lamond and Jean Coldwalls, who was born 27 February 1783 in Dalkeith, the daughter of David Coldwalls and Jean Louttit. I suspect that Margaret Coldwells is Jean's sister - but I can't find a baptism.
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Not Margaret's but wondered if you had come across this christening?
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1TF-1N5
Marriage or Banns here www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYM3-S4J
Monica
Added: Looks like we can likely exclude that Margaret.
1841 www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a151684f4040b9d6e223c63/alison-miss-philp-1841-midlothian-temple-1821-?locale=en
1851 www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5903d5b1e9379091b1f3e742/alison-philp-1851-midlothian-temple-1821-?locale=en
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Thanks, this one looked promising until the census entries.
I wondered if she had emigrated. I thought she might have joined her mother in Australia but haven't been able to find any trace of her here. Perhaps America or Canada.
She just doesn't want to be found!