RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: howe02 on Friday 06 November 20 13:30 GMT (UK)
-
Recently discovered a DNA connection to Frank Howe 1866-1929 who married 1894 Wolverhampton - Mary Ann Nolan
1911 11 Herbert Street census suggest born 1866 Churchbridge, Staffordshire but I haven't found birth or bp record - he is a widow with three sons Frank Baldwin, Thomas Joseph, George
1901 census says born Wolverhampton with his wife and three sons Frank, Thomas, George
Looking for birth or bp record and where was he in 1871 and 1881 and 1891?
Any suggestions ................... thanks Alison
-
Another son is born 1899 Wolverhampton - Jacobus Ricardus Howe (James Richard) - father is listed as Francisci Howe and mother Mariae Annae Nolan Howe
So maybe birth listed as Francis Howe and later changed to Frank ????
-
HOWE, THOMAS JOSEPH mmn NOLAN
GRO Reference: 1895 Dec Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 601
HOWE, GEORGE mmn NOLAN
GRO Reference: 1897 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 615
Marriage Sep qtr 1894
Howe Frank
Nolan Mary Ann
Wolverhampton 6b 942
-
Thanks, they are the children of Frank - the dates match the census info listed
Main interest is to find Frank ............
-
Sorry I did not mean to post that, I got distracted by the doorbell ::)
I was trying to see if his marriage was online anywhere for information on his father
-
If he is difficult to find, then you need the marriage certificate to see who he claims as his father.
-
The marriage certificate would be great but I was hoping to find some church records or census for clues to avoid paying for certificates - will check what information is provided in 1894
I am also thinking maybe his birth / bp is under another name other than Frank - the bp record of son James Richard suggests Francis or some variation
-
I was trying to find another surname for him in earlier censuses etc Tried Frank Dawson who was baptised in Great Wyrley in 1867, born 1866. But no obvious reason why he would end up as Howe in 1891.
Frank Howe was working for a railway company in 1911 - have you found any employment records for him?
-
The middle name of the one of the children BALDWIN - would be a family surname.
Great Wyrley is about 0.9 mile from Churchbridge -
Churchbridge in 1871 - under the Civil Parish of Great Wyrley.
Looking at one person on the census, earlier census he states he was born in Churchbridge, another one Great Wyrley.
Enumerator's Notes
1871 Census, Staffordshire Great Wyrley - ALL - District 24
The part of the Parish of Great Wyrley which lies to the West of the Stafford and the Walsall Road, comprising part of Great Wyrley (tillings?) Landwood, Churchbridge, and Wyrley Bank etc etc.
? Trying to sort out which Registration District Great Wyrley/Churchbridge would be in 1865/6
There is a
Birth for a HOWE Male - 1865 - Walsall
and
---
-
I have only just started looking for Frank Howe so I am yet to become familiar with the names in Staffordshire, will have to get a map to look at (I am in Australia)
Baldwin runs through my Howe family from mid 1700s but we think it came via the Duppa family which connects to the female line - my cousin is John Baldwin Howe
My interest in Howe in Wolverhampton (Staffordshire) is because my dad has been DNA matched to a person that is a direct link to Frank Howe which is why we are keen to find him as he will then hopeful provide clues to link to my James Howe (who is a mystery)
Is there a way I could find out the 1894 church they were married in? ........... Alison
-
Website
FreeREG
There are a number of HOWE's listed in Staffordshire
? Where the family Methodists e.g.
Baptism at Ablewell Street Wesleyan Methodist Chapel - WALSALL
Francis John HOWE
birth date: 15 November 1880 - baptism date: 15 Nov 1880
father: Frederick Thomas HOWE, 20 Lower Walhouse Street, Walsall.
? Not sure whether the marriage you are looking for was a Civil Wedding (i.e. Register Office)
---
Just by searching on the above website for Baldwin HOWE - there are two baptism
Hertfordshire - Totteridge, St Andrew
28 May 1825
George Baldwin Duppa HOWE
father: HOWE, mother: HOWE
and in Kent - 28 May 1793 H M Dockyard Church
Baldwin Richard Duppa HOWE
parents: James and Philipa
also a marriage at Chatham, Kent - St Mary the Virgin (Chatham was a Navy place)
17 August 1842
Baldwin Walter HOWE, of full age, Bachelor - occupation: Gent - High Street
and
Martha YATES, a minor.
-
Marriage Locator Search Results - GRO Index: 1894 quarter 3, volume 6b, page 942:
Sorry, we cannot locate the church for this marriage. The entry is located between entries for Wolverhampton St Paul (RD: Wolverhampton) and Blakenall Heath Holy Trinity (RD: Walsall).
-
On the 1891 Census,
Wolverhampton St Mary
122 North Street - is the NOLAN family
Patrick 50 - General Labourer, born IRELAND
Hannah - 45 - born IRELAND
Patric - son 24 Blacksmith's Striker - born Staffordshire - Wolverhampton
Mary Ann - 20 - - Jappanning Ironwork
Ellen - Grand-daughter - 6 months
? is Ellen -Mary Ann's daughter
GRO INDEX
NOLAN, Sarah Ellen - mother's name (just a dash)
GRO Reference: 1890 D Quarter in Wolverhampton, Volume 06B Page 533
(appears to have died in 1892 aged 1)
? If Mary Ann NOLAN - married in Church - was it St Mary's (or a Catholic wedding)
? or at the Register Office.
-
On Freereg, the NOLAN's seems to be buried at the Merrridale Cemetery, Wolvlerhampton (notes , Parish St Mary) as it
Frank HOWE
burial date: 4 Mar 1929
aged 63 = c1866
burial person abode: Wilson Street
Notes: Parish: St Mary, Grave 20223 Reg. No. U3/5171
and his wife: agagin at the Merridale Cemetery
Mary Ann HOWE
burial date: 30 Mar 1908
aged 37 year
Notes: Parish: All Saints, Grave 20556. Reg No. U3/0749
-
Thanks everyone for the information - the burial of Frank and Mary Ann seem OK - will follow the clues of St Mary and All Saints and St Paul and Holy Trinity for a marriage
Haven't seen the John Francis Howe 1880 record - there seems to be lots of Howe families in Wolverhampton and Staffordshire so until I understand the links better I am still confused
The information of Howe re Baldwin I have, we have lots of the family in Kent and we know there must be a Hertfordshire connection due to the marriage and bp - the James Howe mentioned is our mystery man. The reason several family members did the DNA test which found a match to Howe in Wolverhampton, hence why I am now confused but struggling to find Frank as he is the link to James
Thanks again for the help so far, the search continues ................ A
-
An interesting find 1891 census 4 Dunstall Street Wolverhampton - George Howe and wife Martha and children and George's mothe Mary Howe (widow) 65 - it says she was born in Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire
George was born in Cheshire, Shavington-cum-Gresty
So who is Mary's husband and George's father and where were they married
Yet another mystery connection to Hertfordshire
James Howe and Phillippa Duppa Hancorn married in Welwyn
So much information to sort out ...........
-
Just noticed 1901 census for Frank and Mary Ann and three sons - the address 107 Stafford Street says it is in the parish of St Mary - so perhaps the wedding was also there in 1894
Can I see St Mary parish records and possibility the marriage record anywhere?
-
Couldn't read the occupation of Frank 1901
However 1911 census Frank is a widow (4 children 1 deceased) machinist engineer Railway Company at 11 Herbert Street, Wolverhampton - he is with 3 sons: Frank Baldwin 16, Thomas Joseph 15 and George 13
The other son James Richard Howe 1899-1900
-
There does seem to be a connection to the Sea with this family as
Thomas Joseph HOWE's record is on
Ancestry:
UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Service - 1849-1939
Portsmouth
Thomas Joseph HOWE - date of birth: 22 October 1895
Place of birth: Wolverhampton, Staffs
Occupation :Iron Plate Worker
Whether formerly R.M. or R.N. - written down is F.E.
Date and period of S.S. Engagement - 3 january 1914- 5+ 7 years
Height 5.3 and three quarters, Chest 34
Hair: brown
Eyes: Light Brown
Complex : Fsh (Fresh)
Then a list of the Ships he served on.
Ceased: 2 September 1918.
----
There is a marriage at Wolverhampton (Civil Registration)
J/F.M 1920
of Thomas J HOWE to Florence M PREECE
-
Frank Baldwin HOWE 's War Record is on Ancestry
Royal Army Medical Corp - quite a number of pages - He was a kettle Maker
and one of the pages he states
Father: Frank HOWE - 11 Herbert Street, Wolverhampton
Mother (dead)
brother: Thomas (Navy)
George (with parent)
-
Thankyou - didn't know about Thomas Joseph being in the navy - will go and look at that record
The info for Frank Baldwin matches the 1911 census including the address so that confirms that
might just have to pay the money and get Frank's marriage certificate to find more clues - will need to check to see what info would be available on certificate for 1894, thanks again ........... A
-
On the Public Members Tree on Ancestry
Thomas J HOWE - who married Florence M PREECE 1920 in Wolverhampton - gives her dob as 2 October 1894, but no death)
There is a death of a Florence M HOWE aged 43 c 1894 (Southampton) in 1937 - which could be Thomas' wife (Southampton is on the Coast, and a Port).
-
Back on the family history today - thanks to everyone who has helped so far, sincerely appreciate all the time and effort
Want to go back and explore the 1891 census 4 Dunstall Street Wolverhampton for George Howe and wife Martha and their children - also with George is his mother Mary Howe (widow) 65 which says she was born in Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire - census also says George was born in Cheshire, Shavington-cum-Gresty
Any clues on George's father who is Mary's husband and where were they married and born. Where were they in 1881 ........
-
Think I missed some information from Capetown regarding Churchbridge and Great Wyrley
The birth for a male Howe 1865 Walsall looks interesting (could this be Frank?)
the post states this at the end of message followed by 'and ---' was there something else in the message
-
Tried three times unsuccessfully to apply to GRO for the 1894 marriage of Frank Howe and Mary Ann Nolan - the website doesn't accept my card and the bank have checked and there is nothing wrong with the card, the GRO did have some problems with their website but that seems OK now, so still haven't got the certificate.
However today I found 1914 marriage for a Frank Howe to Catherine Carroll in Wolverhampton - could this be 'my' Frank remarrying as his wife Mary Ann Nolan had died and 1911 census has Frank as a widower with three young children.
Any ideas on how I could find them after 1914 ............. Alison
-
?
Ancestry : Staffordshire Kelly's Directory
1912
Wolverhampton
CARROLL Catherine (Mrs) - shopkeeper, 67 Herbert Street
(Frank was living at 11 Herbert Street, 1911 census)
----
Catherine CARROLL - Head - aged 52 - Widower (crossed out married 23 years - 3 children born, 3 alive, Gorcery business, Greengrocery born, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire
Olive Joyce - visitor - aged 5 born Wolverhampton, Staffordshire.
-
This (I think)proves the marriage of Frank HOWE to Catherine CARROLL is correct, as checking with FreeReg - Catherine is also buried at the Merrridale Cemetary - and same address as Frank HOWE (who died 4 March 1929 - abode: Wilson Street
-----
Freereg
Wolverhampton, Merridale Cemetary
14 August 1929 - not long after Frank)
Catherine HOWE - aged 71 years - address: Wilson Street
Grave: 20223. Reg No. U3/5302
(same Grave as Frank)
---
1921 Census - will be out in 1922)
-
This is more prove....
Ancestry Probate:
HOWE Catherine of 1 Wilson-Street Wolverhampton, Widow died 11 August 1929 at
376 Wolverhampton-road, Heath Town, Wolverhampton. ***
Probate: Birmingham 3 October to Thomas Joseph HOWE railway van setter.
Effects: £247 3s. 3d.
----
1911 Census : 16 Herbert Street
CARROLL
Thomas - 44 - House Painter
Catherine - 42
Daniel - 4
____
Looking at previous Rootschat Staffordshire - address: 376 Wolverhampton Road, Heath Town, Wolverhampton - it appears this address is New Cross Hospital, Wolverhampton and other Researchers' Ancestors had this address on their death certificate.
-
I think Frank's Dad was also involved with the Railways -
Searching the National Archives for Churchbridge (which is about 2 miles from my home).....
Churchbridge Sidings - (Railway plans etc) ...
This one for 1900
1900
Churchbridge Sidings - new signal cabin.....
Railway Plans (British Raid Engineer's Department at Crewe) Churchbridge Sidings (Walsall-Rugeley). etc.
-
Thanks heaps, I just had a feeling about that second marriage which I only found yesterday. I asked myself what happened to Frank with young children so I went looking for another marriage - and there it was. I appreciate your time and effort and expertise in being able to research so much better than me. I often have the question but struggle to find the answer - Such great news to find this second marriage
But I am not sure why you think Frank's dad was also involved with the railway
Thanks again for your assistance, regards .............. Alison
-
The 1900 Churchbridge railway reference you think is Frank's dad - is there a name? ...... Alison
-
If you Google:
Gilpins The Canalorak
This is an informative article + maps all about Gilpins of Churchbridge.....
Will give you an idea of the industry etc.
----
Frank - says he was born in Churchbridge - such a small area.
-
Thanks for the Churchbridge info - will google now
Misread 1911 census for Catherine Carroll - three children but all three deceased by 1911
The Daniel Carroll in 1901 census is the only name of a child I found but no death
-
If you read the article (and there are others) - Gilpins employed lots of men - and it does goes on to say
Gilpins basin on the Wyrley Bank branch, located near to upper Landywood and the new cemetery, had a mineral railway associated with it, the mineral railway ran from the basin to Great Wyrley Collier and from there up to the tool works adjacent to the A34.
This area of Staffordshire - was a huge Coal Mining area - and Cannock where I live, many people came from all over the Country to work down the mines.
-
Wish I was there to go exploring and researching with you
I had planned a trip to Ireland and UK last year but still waiting on the COVID situation to improve, I was going to take my long-service leave to go researching. It will now be at least 2023 or 2024 before I think about international travel, thanks again for all your help
The search continues for Frank and the connection to my James Howe ........... A
-
Howe2
Back to your message Re: 1891 census, 4 Dunstall Street, Wolverhampton, George Howe and wife Martha and children and George's mother, Mary HOWE (widow) 65 - etc. etc ? asked the question who is Mary's husband and George's father etc.
Family Search has the Marriage of George HOWE to Martha PRICE - 27 March 1880 Wolverhampton - Christ Church.
George HOWE - aged 25 - residence: Fox Lane
father: George HOWE
Martha PRICE - aged 29
1881 Census, Wolverhampton
4 Stafford Road
George HOWE - 25 - Iron Planer - born Cheshire, etc
Martha - 30
Bertha - 2 months (Family Search, chrisstened 28 April 1881 - Christ Church, Wolverhampton)
(this family drew your attention, because they had a Son named Frank).
FreeReg - shows he was christened with this full name
Robert Frank Walter HOWE - christened 1 October 1882 - parents: George (Fitter) residence: West Street and Martha
Just Frank W - aged 8 on the 1891 census.
---
Shavingon Cum Gresty: Cheshire (checking on Freebmd) - comes under Nantwich, Cheshire
? GRO Index:
HOWE, George - 1855 S Quarter in Nantwich - mother's maiden name: FEAR
Family Search: Christening 21 November 1826 Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire (Independent)
Mary FEAR - parents: William & Charlotte
1851 Census, Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire
FEAR
Charlotte - 65 - born Gilson, Hertfordshire
George - Son - 29 - born Sawbridgeworth
Mary FEAR - daughter - 25 - Out Door Servant - born Sawbridgeworth
Elizabeth FEAR - Grand-daughter - 1
-
Thankyou so much for the information ........... Alison
-
I am back looking at the Howe family in Wolverhampton
Finally got Frank Howe (abt 1866-1929) marriage to Mary Ann Nolan
It lists Frank's father as Baldwin Walter Howe (deceased at time of Frank 1894 marriage)
This confirms the DNA link that started this research - Baldwin Walter Howe born 1822 is in my family tree but he just disappears from his wife abt 1851 - the census looks like she is listed as W (widow) Chatham, Kent with her 11 yr old son - we thought he must have died but have not found a death record. Seems like he may have moved-on and then fathered another child (Frank) with ???
Haven't found a birth record for Frank as yet
So I am looking for any information about Frank's 1929 death - is there a certificate which might show parents
Any information greatly appreciated, thanks ......... Alison
-
Made a mistake in previous post - Baldwin Walter Howe is not with his wife Martha in 1861 census
He is with her in 1851 .......
-
I have 1894 marriage of Frank Howe and Mary Ann Nolan - I can't read the address of Frank in Wolverhampton - can anyone make suggestions as to what it might say - see attached (sorry I didn't know how to rotate the image) ????? Row, Wolverhampton looking for Frank in 1891 census
Thanks ............. Alison
-
Deanery Row
-
Thankyou - that will help me follow a clue, sincerely appreciate your time and effort, thanks ... Alison
-
Any clues how to find Deanery Row, Wolverhampton in the 1891 census
1901 Frank Howe is at 107 Stafford Street, Wolverhampton, but I can't find him 1871, 1881, 1891
-
Just Googling: Deanery Row 1891 census - and on the net there is an article abourt Albert Thomas FLETCHER - ....
'According to the 1891 census, Albert is now married to Mary with two children, Nellie and Harriet, and they lived at Bloxwich Road in New Invention......
it goes on to say
However, Albert, still a lock maker, is visiting John and Mary Jane LEWIS, at 29 Deanery Row.
Hope this info turns out to be OK
I've seen an article on Old Wolverhampton - with a photo of Deanery Row - (terrace houses)
This would be in the Parish of St Peter's
-
https://lostwolverhampton.co.uk
Lawyers Field - Deanery Row - Prospect Place - Fender Row - Lost Wolverhampton
There is a search button - on the right further down on the front page - typing in Deanery Row.... there is an 1875 map of few streets and clearly shows Deanery Row. There older photos on the net - show the terraced houses running up a steep hill
-
Thanks for the information about Deanery Row - I have looked at Old Wolverhampton and have gleamed some clues in the past about the Howe family but struggling to confirm connections which is why I want to find Frank Howe in 1891, 1881 and 1871 in census
At least I know he was born in abt 1865/66 Churchbridge Staffordshire (near Wolverhampton) although no birth or baptism record and he pops up Q3 1894 marriage and I have him in 1901 107 Stafford Road, Wolverhampton with wife Mary and 3 sons and 1911 11 Herbert Street, Wolverhampton (widower with 3 sons)
So trying to find out how to find Deanery Row in the census - might try and find Albert Thomas Fletcher in the census and then go page by page
Thanks again for everyone's help ........... A
-
Found Deanery Row via Albert Fletcher and found 1 - 31 Deanery Row but no Frank Howe
the mystery continues ...........
-
?
Checked with Bristish Newspapers on line and searched for Baldwin Howe
I don't subscribed - but can briefly make out this.
The Heading is spelt (jumbled)
Vhom uykefool or
.... of. the High Court of ChaBcerr, made in the Matter f the Estate of BALDWIN HOWE, deceased" and cause, "William HOWE against Franoea Ann HOWE, Widow, the Cry-BALDWIN RICHARD DUPPA HOWE, late King's mr Isle.....
Published: Thursday 10 December 1863
Newspaper: Morning Advertiser
County: London, England
Type: Article: Words : 1490 Page 1 Tags: none
----
You can join and have 3 free goes - or someone might be able to access this for you via
-
Thank-you but unfortunately that is a different Baldwin Howe - there are several generations of them and it looks BWH father
My Baldwin Walter Howe - father of Frank Howe (who I am looking for in 1871 1881 1891) is most likely alive 1863 as Frank was not born until about 1865/66 in Churchbridge Staffordshire
But thanks for looking ............ A
-
More news on Baldwin Walter Howe
It appears he has another son - George Howe born Q3 1855 (1st July) Shavington-cum-Gresty, Nantwich, Cheshire and we think the mother is Mary Fear - have see the birth certificate - subdistrict of Wybunbury, County of Chester
Father - BWH listed as Railway Pointsman
So where is BWH, Mary and George in 1861 census
Any clues appreciated, regards ...... Alison
-
The information for George Howe and Mary Fear is not new - see previous pages, however we now know possibly not George and Mary - a son George 1855 birth certificate says Baldwin Walter Howe as the father so that is the new information. Waiting to get 1880 marriage of George and Martha Price to confirm father name
-
1871 census Wolverhampton
Mary Dawson head married 45 laundress Herts Sawbridgeworth
George H. Dawson son 15 Cheshire Crewe
Mary I Dawson
Emily J Dawson dau
FRANK Dawson 4 son Staffs Wyrley
1881 Wolverhampton
Mary Dawson 55 widow laundress Herts Sawbridgeworth
Frank Dawson son 14 Staffs Churchbridge
Emily J 10 dau. ". "
1891 and 1901 Mary Dawson now calling herself HOWE
1861
Gt Wyrley
George Dawson head mar 35 messenger Kent Minster
Mary Wife 34 bn Sawbridgeworth
George 5 son Cheshire Shavington
Mary 1 dau. Staffs Gt Wyrley
There's your Minster Kent link
Now was George really a Howe calling himself Dawson ?
-
Amazing = how did you come up with the info? It seems to fit but I will take a day or two to digest although I do like the Kent link
Baldwin Walter Howe left his wife and family sometime after 1851 so it seems likely he did not want to be found or known so the change of name explains why we haven't found him anywhere so it looks like he died between 1871 and 1881
Thankyou so much for your time, effort and research skills - I am going to look at the census now
I wonder what name Baldwin Walter Howe alias George Dawson was buried with
I wonder why Mary Fear used the name Dawson - will look at 1861 census for clues
Might be hard to 'prove' this is correct although it all looks good
I will also check the other children birth records
Kind regards ............ Alison
-
I just noticed the Howe crest under your name - what is the connection?
-
My Great Grandad, on two Census returns 1881 and 1891, called himself and his Wife GREEN. This was his Grandmother's maiden name. He did this to escape debt. His place of birth was correct, but his Son and my Grandad, were living with them, with the correct Surname, but listed as Lodgers. Both him and his Wife's death certificate gave their correct surname and the same address.
-
By luck I have just found
Mary Fear Dawson birth 1859 Staffordshire - mother Fear
that confirms we are on the right track .........
-
I wonder if Mary Fear was married to a Mr Dawson and perhaps he died and my BWH moved in and took the name ......... the plot thickens
-
Freereg
Staffordshire, Great Wyrley, St Mark's
birth date: 1 July 1855
baptism date: 10 Jan 1866
Person forename: George HOWE
Father's forename: George
Mother's Forename: Mary
Mother's Surname: DAWSON
Person abode: Churchbridge
Father's occupation: Messenger at Edge Wood Works
Notes: Sibling of Emily Jane & Mary
----
again Freereg
Great Wyrley, St Mark's
birth date: 30 May 1859
Baptism date: 10 Jan 1866
Person Forename: Mary
father: George
mother's forename Mary
Father's Forename DAWSON
Person abode: Churchbridge
Father's occupation: Messenger at Edge Tool Works
Notes: Sibling of Emily Jane& George HOWE
---
in my previous reply, Churchbridge is about a mile away from where I live - and there was a big works at Churchbridge - will have to refresh my memory.
-
There are all under the surname DAWSON on Freereg at Great Wyrley - there is also Emily Jane's and Frank's etc.
-
George HOWE/DOBSON, says he was a Messenger at Edge Tool Works, and was living in Churchbridge.
On the net
History of William GILPIN, Wedges Mills and Churchbridge Works. This firm were English Tool Manufacturer. Had two works in Churchbridge and Wedges Mill. From 1834 to 1946. There is an Advert with the article - which includes; Patent Screw Auger and Boring Bits, Heavy and Light Edge Tools.
-
In error
-
It all looks OK
I wonder if Mary Fear's mother Charlotte (Rainbird) who married William Fear might have remarried and so Mary Fear became Mary Dawson
The problem is I have seen the birth certificate for George Howe 1 July 1855 and it says the father is Baldwin Walter Howe (railway pointsman) and mother Mary Fear Shavington Cum Cresty Cheshire
this is in contrast to the FreeReg information which I am thinking is a baptism record
-
GRO Index
HOWE, George - Mother's maiden name: FEAR
GRO Reference: 1855, S Quarter in NANTWICH Volume 08A, Page 270. It took me some time to sort out my x Grandad called himself GREEN - people sometimes didn't want to be found.
-
birth Frank Dawson 1866 - mother Fear - can you find this in the GRO
-
GRO Index
DAWSON, Frank - mother's maiden name : FEAR
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in PENKRIDGE Volume: 06B 426
----
Penkridge, Staffs, is just a few miles from Cannock (I lived there for 20 years)
Not sure what area PENKRIDGE District cover in 1866 - will look at FreeBDM
-
Penkridge District covered:
and include
Cannock
Cheslyn Hay
Great Wyrley etc
On Free reg, Frank DAWSON, son of George and Mary - birth date is given as 22 April 1866
-
Such a mystery
Frank Dawson lists his father as Baldwin Walter Howe on his 1894 marriage certificate but was born with Dawson - will try and get this birth certificate
Interestingly George Dawson baptism as Dawson has his birth certificate with BWH as father and birth recorded as Howe
A big thankyou to everyone with such great research skills and time and energy that assisted
Lots to digest and explain to others who have been looking for BWH
My dad is DNA linked to Frank Howe (Dawson) which started this search to find the father and only this week had contact from George's family who were also looking for BWH
Thanks again ........... Alison
-
I think the mystery is getting very interesting.
British Newspapers on line. Trying to call this up. Can call up the first one.
Nottingham and Midlands Counties Daily Express Monday 25 November 1867. It’s all about George Dawson a night watchman at Mr Gilpin’s edge tool manufactory at Churchbridge who was sent on Saturday to the bank with £370 and disappeared. Mentions his wife and four children. Also a Miss Pink who came from London and was on friendly terms and was supposed to elope together.
Also Saturday 23 November 1867. Leeds times headed
Bradford
Announces the disappearance under disgraceful circumstances of a man named Dawson, messenger of the firm Messrs Gilpin and Co. of Wedges Mill, near Cannock. Dawson who seems to have trusted but his employers, was despatched on Saturday.
Sorry, I am just about to go out, so haven’t got time to type it out.
-
ELOPEMENT AND ROBBERY
A young man named George DAWSON, a night watchman at Mr Gilpin's edge-tool manufactory, Church-Bridge was sent as usual on Saturday to the bank for £370 to pay the workmen's wages, and was expected back by the 4.10 p.m. train from Walsall, but as he did not arrive by that train it was thought he had missed it, but would come by the next train. That, however arrived, and also the last, but no tidings of either the missing watchman or the cash.
Next morning his wife received a note from him, requesting her to kiss his four children for him, as he would never see her of them again.
The same day (Sunday) a Miss PINK, who came from London, and who had opened a school at Landerwood, and with whom DAWSON was upon very intimate terms, left the place, and as she is said to have taken a ticket towards Hull, it is supposed she has gone to join DAWSON and that they have eloped together.
In addition to £370 wages, it is stated DAWSON had in hand other sums of money which he had collected for his employer, so that it is quite probable he has little short of £1,000 with him. A warrant for DAWSON's apprehension has been signed by the Justice at the Rushall petty sessions..
----
I'll try again to open up the other Paper Leeds Times - 23 November 1867 - which talks about DAWSON, messenger of the firm of Messrs. Gilpin and Co. of Wedges Mill.
-
I've found the next article in the Leeds paper (it's on the following page to the link) - will type out later. Sorry, just meeting friends.
However, it does say, he leaves a wife and four children at Churchbridge and has eloped with a single women.
man named DAWSON, messenger of the firm of Messrs. Gilpin and Co.
-
I assume, because Miss PINK, from London - booked a railway ticket towards Hull, which is in Yorkshire, England, this article appeared in the Leeds TIMES - Saturday 23 November 1867.
Hull - East Riding of Yorkshire
Leeds - West Yorkshire
----
A Birmingham paper announces the disappearance under disgraceful circumstances, of a man named DAWSON, messenger of the firm of Messrs. Gilpin & Co. of Wedge's Mill near Cannock.
DAWSON who seems to have been much trusted by his employers, was despatched on Saturday to bank certain bills and fetch the money required for the workmen's wages. As neither messenger nor money was forthcoming at the proper time, inquiries were made, and it was found that the bills had been deposited in due course, and that DAWSON had received £170 at Wolverhampton and £200 at Walsall on his employers' account.
It was further ascertained that he was on the Walsall railway station platform at four o'clock in the afternoon, and there were good grounds for believing that all the money in his possession was in GOLD
Nothing has been heard of him since.
He leaves a wife and four children in Churchbridge.
There seems good reason for believing that the fugitive has eloped with a single woman, a schoolmistress, with whom he was on terms of great intimacy, and who took her departure from the neighbourhood on Sunday.
It is also stated that he had in his possession to his employers other large sums, in addition to those he had received in the bank.
-----
So we have Miss PINK from London, Schoolmistress - who caught a train up to Yorkshire!!! before, DAWSON - got hold of GOLD and followed her.
---
The previous article mentions Miss PINK who opened a School and LANDERWOOD, this place is LANDYWOOD, which is near Great Wyrley, Walsall.
-
As this events took place in 1867 - this is just a part of the article
From GENUKI Staffordshire - This is from the National Gazetteer of Great Britain and Ireland - 1868
CANNOCK
'GREAT WYRLEY, a township and ecclesiastical district in the parish of CANNOCK, hundred of CUTTLESTONE, county Stafford, 7 miles N.W. of Walsall, 9 S.E. of Stafford and 1 mile S of CANNOCK.
It has a station on the South Staffordshire branch railway. The village is situated on the border of Cannock Chase.
The ecclesiastical district is of larger extent than the township.
The living is a perpetual curacy in the diocese of Lichfield, value £130.
The Church, dedicated to St Mark, was erected in 1845.
The Wesleyans have a chapel at Landywood.
There are National Schools, built in 1849 at a cost of £700.
British History on line mentions a Wesleyan school connected to the Chapel at Great Wyrley was built there in 1867 or 1868
-
It is all a bit weird as last night I found criminal records for George Dawson thinking that Mary might have been married to a Dawson and then BWH moved in using his name
The phrase 'young man' bothers me - BWH was born abt 1822
Of course there are always people with the same name who gets mistakenly integrated into the story
so not sure what to make of it all now - to easy to jump to conclusions
BWH goes missing from 1st family sometime after 1851
The names seem to fit
The story continues ............
-
The 1861 Census for Gt Wyrley quoted by fiddles glass
and I quote
George DAWSON head mar 35 messenger - born Kent Minster c1826
Mary - wife - 34 bn Sawbridgeworth
George - 5 - son born Cheshire Shavington
Mary 1 - dau. born Staffs. Gt Wyrley
---
The Leeds article says DAWSON was a messenger at Edge tool Works. (as was some of the baptisms records)
-
The question is - is the George Dawson the Baldwin Walter Howe or are there two men involved with Mary Fear
Just seen the marriage of George Howe born 1 July 1855 (alias George H Dawson) and Martha Price and it says the father is George Howe (clerk) and the address for George Howe (groom) is Fox's Lane which is where Mary Dawson (widow) and Frank and Emily are in 1881 census
I feel like I am going around in circles
George Howe - birth record 1 July 1855 baptism as George Dawson 1866 marriage George Howe
in census as a child as George H Dawson until marriage then uses George Howe
Maybe he found out his birth was registered as Howe when he got married
When does Mary Fear first appear as Dawson
And then there is the child Mary Fear Dawson which confirms the link
Must go to work now, back later ..........
-
Can anyone read the address in 1871 census Wolverhampton for Mary Dawson 45 and her four children - George H 15, Mary F 11, Emily J 8, Frank 4 - where is George (snr) or BWH
I can't make the spelling of the street name
Thanks
-
The street is Dunstall Road.
-
Thanks heaps for the name of the street
That also confirms the connection - George Howe (1855) and his family lived in 4 Dunstall Road with his mother Mary (Fear) (Dawson) Howe in 1891 census
-
I thought I may be able to find out the first name of Miss Pink by trying to find more about the school in Staffordshire County records office, but they are having IT issues at the moment. This gives a link to the catalogue when it becomes available
https://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/Heritage-and-archives/Collections/Gateway-to-the-Past.aspx
There also appears to be a local history group for Gt Wyrley on Facebook, but I don't "do" Facebook myself!
I have not found a marriage for Howe/Dawson/Fear
George seems to be an interesting character!!
My gtgtaunt had the misfortune to be the first wife of a serial bigamist - though at least he left a paper trail as he "married" the 3 other women !
-
I'll have another look at British Newspaper's on line - to see if there are any more articles on George, who obviously charmed the ladies, but got bored after a while!!
-
BWH is interesting It appears his family did not know where he went and what he was doing as evidenced by the 2 line entry 1864 by the solicitor about his father's estate (he died 1856)
I am not yet convinced that BWH is George Dawson, although BWH was around for at least 11 years suggesting he might be George Howe
BWH appears on both George and Frank birth certificates
Think the interesting birth record is Mary Fear Dawson - would like to see that certificate and what does Emily Jane Dawson birth record say
Beginning to think that Mary Fear may be married to George Dawson but BWH was on the side-line and Mary had children (George and Frank) with BWH but the children and Mary lived in the house with George Dawson and maybe it wasn't until George Dawson died that George and Frank took the Howe name as young adults getting married, although that doesn't account for birth record of George Howe and the birth record of Frank Dawson - although I haven't confirmed which birth record is Frank His 1911 census says he was born in Churchbridge, there is a Q2 1866 record Penkridge for Frank Dawson
The two men theory might also be validated by 1861 census George Dawson "messenger" and 1855 birth certificate of George Howe in Nantwich - BWH "railway pointsman" George Howe 1880 marriage says father George Howe (clerk) which is even more confusing
So where was BWH living and where does he appear in 1861 1871 and maybe 1881 census
-
I don't do facebook either
-
Can there be a look-up in GRO index for Mary Fear Dawson 1859 and Emily Jane Dawson 1862??
Interestingly the three children baptism Jan 1866 and then Frank born April 1866
Then 1867 George Dawson seems to chase after Miss Pink
That explains why Mary Dawson (mother) is on her own with children 1871 census 'married' and then 1881 she is a widow with 2 children and then 1891 living with son George Howe
-
Mary Fear Dawson mmn Fear 1859 June q Penkridge Vol 6B p 380
Emily Jane Dawson mmn Fear 1862 Dec q Penkridge Vol 6B p 343
-
Thankyou, sincerely appreciate all the assistance
Regards ............ Alison
-
I am going through British Newspapers on line - see if there are any more articles.
So far, this one appears in the Shields Daily News, Northumberland - Monday 25 November 1867, but copied from the Birmingham Post.
It does have more information - some of it is a repeat - but here's the extra information.
This individual who had been in the service of his employers about about 10 years.
A reward of £20 has been offered for his apprehension.
----
So the 1871 census - appears to be him.
---
The same article appears in many Newspapers across the Country
---
As said earlier, Frank HOWE 1866-1929 marriage to Mary Ann NOLAN - gives his father's name as Baldwin Walter HOWE (assume alias GEORGE DAWSON). George HOWE's marriage in Wolverhampton 1880 - Wolverhampton Christ Church, lists his father as George HOWE.
-
? early from HOWE - it was stated BALDWIN (Walter) was a long standing family name
---
BALDWIN - DAWSON (as George appear to be a clever man) - was the surname a mix-up of letter e.g.
The letters DAW are in BALDWIN - then he added SON of BALDWIN - hence DAWSON. The two surnames sound quite similar!! - Letters same to both D A W N
Just a thought!
-
Clever thought about the name
However there are lots of George Dawson so I can't discount there are actually two men in Mary Fear's life. It would be interesting to find George Dawson
1851 Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire - Mary Fear is with her mother Charlotte (widow) and brother George and a young child Elizabeth - not sure if this is Mary's
1855 George Howe born Cheshire
Then she appears 1859 when Mary Fear Dawson born Penkridge, Great Wyrley
1861 George Dawson in census with Mary and children George 5, Mary 1
1862 Emily Jane Dawson born Churchbridge
1866 children baptised as Dawson (including George Howe)
1866 Frank Dawson born Churchbridge
So looking for George Dawson between 1851 - 1859
1861 says George born Minster, Kent about 1826
The 1861 census is the confusing clue as BWH was born in 1822 Minster, Isle of Sheppey, Kent
The story continues .......... A
-
Just found 1841 census Rolvenden, Kent
John Dawson 55, Jane 50, and George 15 wheelwright
-
This George is still working as a wheelright with John in Rolvenden in 1861, so cannot be the same person as the George born Minster.
-
It would be good if we could find George Dawson in 1851
BWH in 1851 was with his first family and listed in the census - Peckham, Camberwell, Surrey and occupation listed as Miller and Baker Bradshaw Street aged 29 born Sheppey, Kent
The 1855 birth certificate of George Howe says that BWH was a railway pointsman
Would there be a birth notice in the newspaper for George
Not sure if we will solve the mystery
Regards to all
-
Going back to the baptisms on Freereg
3 children of George Howe/Dawson were christened on the same day 10 January 1866 and siblings of each written on each baptism.
George HOWE - born 1 July 1855 - father's Forename: George,
Mother's Forename : Mary
Father's surname: DAWSON
so, George was given the middle name HOWE
Frank DAWSON the last child, born 24 April 1866 - wasn't christened until 29 September 1867
----
Then George DAWSON, appears in the Newspaper Articles a month later, Monday 23 November 1867 and he had run off with the Gold, on the Saturday before.
In the article, it says he left a note to his wife, saying she would never see him again, and to kiss his four children.
---
It would seem he'd been planning this for some time and made sure is very young son was Christened before he disappeared.
----
The two girls, Emily Jane and Mary Fear
? whom did they marry and have they been found on census returns.
-
Just to recap:
Frank who was christened just before his father (George DAWSON) disappeared in 1867
On Frank's marriage certificate (1894) - he says his father's name was Baldwin Walter HOWE and proved by DNA
Freereg
Staffordshire, Great Wyrley, St Marks
birth date: 22 April 1866
baptism date: 29 September 1867
person forename: Frank
father's forename: George
mother's forename: Mary
father's surname: DAWSON
person abode: Churchbridge
father's occupation: Messenger at Edge Tool works (on all children's baptisms) + article on George DAWSON, who ran off with the gold, occupation: Messenger at Edge Tool Works.
---
George HOWE, the brother, named his Son, Robert Frank Walter HOWE
-
Howe, asked for any other Newspaper Articles on Baldwin Walter HOWE (although this seems a common family name) - not sure if this is a Son, with again the Christian name: Frank
Maidstone Telegraph: Saturday 16 June 1866
Deaths
On the 4th instant, at the residence of his Uncle (W BRISLEY). Cossington Farm, Aylesford, Frank Charles HOWE second son of Baldwin Water Howe, aged 20.
Another paper, the Maidstone Journel and Kentish Advertiser.... says, this was after a long and painful illness and in his 20 year
-
'BWH was with his first family and listed in the census - `Peckham, Camberwell Surrey' and occupation listed as Miller and Baker, Bradshaw Street, aged 29 born Sheppey, Kent.'
---
Linked assume to family
British Newspapers on line
Canterbury Journal, Kentish Times and Farmers' Gazette, Kent
25 April 1846
F HOWE Isle of Sheppey -
The insolvent, James Duppa HOWE of Minster, in the Isle of Sheppey, miller, applied for his inter of order and protection. The insolvent's debts are £275 19s. and his credits but 8s.4d. He attributes his insolvency to his credit having been stopped, and the insufficienty of his receipts to pay necessary expeneses. His principal creditors are Mr ROBINSON of Minster, farm and market gardener £146 16s. and £2. 16s. costs. Mr B D HOWE, of Minster £100; Mr Bentley of Sittingbourne £9 2s. 6d.; Mr R BIGG of Minster £15 5s and ... The Court granted the interim order and fixed the 21 May at eleven o'clok for the ins. Ivent to apply for his final order and protection.
---
My x Grandad around this time, was also a Miller, in Gloucestershire who went bankrupt, and it was him who changed his surname on census return and moved to family in Wiltshire and was a labourer in the GWR. (Great Western Railways) : The Railways were opening up all over the Country.
There was a Corn Law in England from 1815 and 1846 with trade restrictions on imported corn into the United Kingdom. After that it was lifted and I was told, many Miller's went out of business.
Can only assume Baldwin, might have been in the same position - and disappeared to escape debt.
-
The previous information regarding the various Howe family members are connected to BWH
What I don't understand is why BWH name as father appears on birth record of George but does not appear on the baptism records and why BWH name as father appears on marriage record of Frank
Particularly the 1894 marriage of Frank who listed him as deceased, it shows that Frank knew his father's name but the birth was recorded as Frank Dawson
Where is Frank in 1891?
The marriage of George Howe 1880 shows George Howe as the father (clerk)
George also continued to use Howe from his marriage
Maybe we will never know, but it has been an interesting story and I have appreciated all the assistance
So if BWH is George Dawson who went off with Miss Pink where is his death record and burial - I doubt whoever was with him at time of death knew who he was really and possibly we will not find him - yet another missing mystery family member in the tree
-
Another interesting point is that both George and Frank gave their children very much Howe christian names such as Frank Baldwin, James Richard, George, Frank Walter - which is a further indication that they knew their father as Howe
Can you confirm if George was bp as George Dawson or George Howe Dawson
Any clues on the girls - Mary in 1881? Emily Jane in 1891?
Current thinking is children raised as thinking father was George Dawson but as adults they learnt of the Howe connection and began to use Howe instead of Dawson
Interestingly mother Mary is listed with George (son) as Mary Howe in 1891
Capetown - in previous post you said 'so 1871 census appears to be him' - who were you referring to - I might have missed something
-
Chempat had the clue about Frank Dawson 1866 way back on page one of this post and we all missed it, but we have come full circle ......... A
-
I posted that so long ago that I cannot remember the exact reasons, but I do not usually throw random people into the mix, so I was interested in the Great Wyrley birth place.
I have just been investigating someone who took his wife's (married) surname on their subsequent marriage. That was fairly quick to sort out.
Have you found anything more on Miss Pink - I only ask because I like the name, and because I like meandering around unrelated people. She started a school and then disappeared? What about her poor pupils, or perhaps the 'school' was not very successful? Schools pop-up and disappear fairly quickly as women try to support themselves.
-
For those that do not 'do' facebook, there appears to be a Cheslyn Hay and District Local History Society that looks to be very active, so might be able to help on local scandals.
-
Just found a Sarah Jane Dawson christening 25 July 1863 Penkridge, Staffordshire - with parents James and Maria Dawson
So there were Dawson families in Penkridge - this is where Frank was born near Churchbridge
Round and round in circles - I was trying to find Emily Jane Dawson and Mary Fear Dawson and was wondering if they married or like the other siblings changed their name to HOWE as adults
.......... Alison
-
Think I have found Emily Jane Dawson marrying 1888 Henry Richard Clifton
1939 register has Emily birth as 29 Sept 1862 which is confirmed by her bp record - hoping this is evidence rather than coincidence
Hoping to track some Clifton children to find some current people and maybe have some more dna confirmation
Anyhow the search continues ............. A
-
An update on someone who might have been Miss Pink
1861 Sarah Jane Pink (West Bromwich) - boarder, occupation - teacher, place of birth Hull, Yorkshire - father Robert Pink, school master
She marries George Chart - Q1 1871 in Surrey