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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: kob3203 on Saturday 07 November 20 08:27 GMT (UK)

Title: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 07 November 20 08:27 GMT (UK)
My grandfather was a sound engineer, and we all recall mum crying out "Dad's on TV!" during Wimbledon one year. The umpire had a problem with his microphone and the game was stopped for a couple of minutes while my grandfather climbed up to the umpire's chair and fixed it.

We've been trying to narrow it down and best we can come up with is that it was the final (or possibly semi-final, maybe even quarter finals) of the women's singles, some time around 1978-1980.

I've found four complete matches on the official Wimbledon channel at Youtube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwx9gNibGUz7vmg3eo-iJwDBy5cRWfTwx (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwx9gNibGUz7vmg3eo-iJwDBy5cRWfTwx) - 1980 Evert/Goolagong final, 1980 Navratilova/King quarter final, 1978 Navratilova/Evert final, and 1977 evert/Wade semi-final. Each is a couple of hours long so I haven't watched them, just quickly scanned through and I can't see anything in them.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I could track this down ?

(I'm really hoping against hope that there's a tennis fanatic reading this who'll answer "Oh yes, I remember that, it was ..." - ever the optimist!  ;D )
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 07 November 20 08:30 GMT (UK)
I also asked at StackExchange Sports

https://sports.stackexchange.com/questions/25319/in-which-wimbledon-womens-final-or-semi-final-we-think-late-1970s-to-early-198

Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 07 November 20 08:34 GMT (UK)
I'd thought about contacting the BBC and ITV, but I think I'd stand a better chance there if I could be more precise about the match.

So this is really a "Does anybody remember..." and "which match was it?"
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 07 November 20 15:19 GMT (UK)

Presumably your Grandfather was BBC Staff?

Can you tell us his name? (My OH is an ex-BBC Cameraman, who would have worked on it during that timeframe).

Romilly.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 07 November 20 15:50 GMT (UK)
The name's Edward (Ted) Corbett. He actually worked for ITT/STC - my father says he worked at Wimbledon every year. We recently found his identity card from 1973, indicating that he worked for the PA Hire department.
We know that he also worked as a sound engineer at the Royal Albert Hall - I personally remember sitting with him in the sound engineer's box there when I was a kid, and we've just found his security pass for Miss World 1972 - position: telecoms & PA. (Miss World was held at the Albert Hall twenty times between 1969-1988 - https://www.royalalberthall.com/about-the-hall/news/2014/november/miss-world-at-the-royal-albert-hall/ (https://www.royalalberthall.com/about-the-hall/news/2014/november/miss-world-at-the-royal-albert-hall/))
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: Romilly on Saturday 07 November 20 16:53 GMT (UK)

The name doesn’t ring any bells, -  (but not surprising as not BBC).

Utube is probably your best bet.

Romilly
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Sunday 08 November 20 07:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks for checking.

Any recording really needs to be the full match because the bit where the umpire's mike is being fixed definitely won't be in any shortened version. So far the only full matches I've found online are those four from the official Wimbledon channel on YouTube. Any other full match uploads at YouTube, unless they're official ones from TV companies, are going to illegal and probably taken down rather promptly. As I've said the only ones I've found are those four official ones.

I've done various google searches and discovered that most (if not all) of the finals and semi-finals seem to be available on DVD, at a cost obviously. Not being a tennis fan, and with such a large number of possibilities, that's a non-starter for me.

So my only real hope is that some tennis fan with a Wimbledon DVD collection will see this and tell me which match.

It's a long shot I know.
,
Edited to add a few links I found (unsure how trustworthy/reliable they are, except the obvious ones) which mostly don't seem to be of much help. Adding them to remind myself what I've already tried.
https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/about_wimbledon/archive_footage.html (https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/about_wimbledon/archive_footage.html) which links to
https://www.imgreplay.com/client/Wimbledon (https://www.imgreplay.com/client/Wimbledon) (you need to click one of the headings to get rid of the error)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/front_page/2823537.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/front_page/2823537.stm)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/questions/programme-information/contributor-access (https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/questions/programme-information/contributor-access)
https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/contact/index.html (https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/contact/index.html) didn't try contacting them. Maybe once I know which match
http://www.tennisondvds.com/pag2a.html (http://www.tennisondvds.com/pag2a.html) simply a list of tennis DVDs
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/old-matches-on-dvd-or-download.234089/ (https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/old-matches-on-dvd-or-download.234089/) indicates DVDs are available for many matches, and it's got a tennis forum

The idea of tennis forums hadn't crossed my mind until I stumbled into one. Posting on one of those might be a worth a try

 
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: Romilly on Sunday 08 November 20 09:41 GMT (UK)

BBC Redux has a store of transmitted programs. (Try Googling BBC Redux).

However, you have to be current BBC Staff to access it.

Perhaps someone on this Forum is?

Best of Luck, Romilly.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Sunday 08 November 20 16:01 GMT (UK)
Would Wimbledon not be helpful? (Nice little story in it for them)
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Monday 09 November 20 03:57 GMT (UK)
Agreed, both Wimbledon and the BBC (possibly ITV too?) are definitely worth contacting. Maybe that's the most obvious and logical approach.  :D

My concern at the moment is that we're still unclear on the match and year, and although we're fairly certain that it's a womens singles final or semi 1978-1980 (that's 9 possibilities) there's a possibility we may be wrong. Maybe it was a quarter-final ? Maybe it was 1981? Etc.

If some kind soul at Wimbledon/BBC checks those 9 most likely matches for us but doesn't find it, then I'd feel rather guilty in asking them to look at more matches, e.g. quarter-finals, earlier/later, womens/mixed doubles, etc. And I'm sure that at some point even the kindest soul would think "that's enough".

So I'm really hoping that a tennis fan somewhere will have the match I'm after on DVD and will thus be confirm the match, and possibly send me a screenshot so I can be 100% sure. At that point spending money on a DVD would make sense to me !
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Monday 09 November 20 04:29 GMT (UK)
I've just posted the question on a UK tennis forum, so fingers crossed

https://www.tennisforum.com/threads/wimbledon-trying-to-identify-a-1978-1980-womens-final-semi-where-the-umpire-had-a-problem-with-his-microphone.1377412/ (https://www.tennisforum.com/threads/wimbledon-trying-to-identify-a-1978-1980-womens-final-semi-where-the-umpire-had-a-problem-with-his-microphone.1377412/)
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: Romilly on Monday 09 November 20 11:13 GMT (UK)

Let us know how you get on.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 28 August 21 07:08 BST (UK)
Well, it's been nearly a year and there's been no response from that tennis forum - I have to admit that it was definitely a long shot.

I've only managed to watch two of the four full matches I found on Wimbledon's official YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/c/Wimbledon/about), and it doesn't seem to be either of these:

Evert/Goolagong 1980 final (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZRTqtKzdYo)
Evert/Navratilova 1978 final (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAYLmavIUqY&t=3s)

Not being a tennis fan I had the matches playing on my second monitor while I was working, but I think I would have been aware of a pause in play due to the umpire's microphone failing.

I also found a partial (possibly a third to a half of the match?)video of the Wade/Stove 1977 final (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNvkSZdZHec) that somebody posted, but that doesn't really help since I need to see the full match.

I'll be trying to watch the other two full matches I found on YouTube over the next few days:

Evert/Wade 1977 semi-final (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4iYdj0ywks)
Navratilova/King 1980 quarter-final (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOn-sBCr1LA)

I haven't tried contacting Wimbledon or the BBC yet because, as I said before, I think there are too many possible matches.

I've also attached a summary of what we believe to be the most likely matches - see the attached image. Although I wouldn't completely rule out a year or two earlier, or even (less likely) a year or two later.

Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Saturday 28 August 21 11:20 BST (UK)
And there's another fly in the ointment - Ted retired in October 1974, according to his long service award "on the occasion of your retirement". He'd have been 62.

I did say that we weren't really certain about the year, didn't I ?
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: Footo on Saturday 28 August 21 17:00 BST (UK)
Bit of a long shot but there’s a profile on Linked-In for Bill Whiston a Sound Assistant/ Sound Supervisor/ Senior Sound Supervisor BBC Television Centre/ BBC Outside Broadcasts
Sep 1970 - Apr 2008. He has also written an article on the sound systems used through the years at Wimbledon and The Proms. He may well recall your grandfather @ Wimbledon between 1970 to his retirement in 1974.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/bill-whiston-5223a746

I googled Bill Whiston BBC Outside Broadcasts if link does not work.

My other half is a Broadcast Engineer (visions) and is hired in by a third party to cover Wimbledon.

Good luck in your quest

Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Sunday 29 August 21 09:38 BST (UK)
Thanks Footo, that's no more of  a long shot than anything else.

As usual with those type of sites one needs to be a member to make contact. I wonder if I can track down my details - I had an account there soon after they started I think, around twenty years ago. As far as I know it's lain dormant since then.

Regarding my own watching of tennis matches, I've watched the other two full matches that were on YouTube and it's not them either.

Despite my grandfather retiring in 1974, certain memories from family members indicate that it must have been later - my sister recalls being at camp with the Girl Guides, and she'd have been too young in 1974.

My father thinks it was the final.

So our most likely match is now the 1977 Wade/Stove Wimbledon Womens' Singles final. Next step, find somebody who has that full match on DVD and ask them to sit and watch it (probably around 2 hours worth) to see whether it's the one.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: Forguette on Sunday 29 August 21 10:53 BST (UK)
Daily Mirror 1st July 1978. No story which elaborates on the picture unfortunately. Gerulaitis had beaten Sherwood Stewart.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Monday 30 August 21 09:30 BST (UK)
Thanks Forguette, that's definitely our most promising lead so far. I'm trying to find out whether this match (3rd round Gerulaitus v Stewart) was televised, and if it's on DVD.

Despite not being a womens singles match, and not being a final, semi, or quarter, all of us seem to agree that we might have been totally wrong on those ! (With regard to that, it's worth listening to Richard Dawkins reading a bit about false memory from his book, at the 31 minute mark of his chat on YouTube with Penn Jillette - Richard Dawkins in conversation with Penn Jillette at Live Talks LA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNIRUigPxA8) note: I think there's some bad language elsewhere in the video for those who might be offended)

So my sister's recollection of being at camp with the Girl Guides, along with us moving house, is possibly the most reliable recollection, making the year 1977 or 1978.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Tuesday 31 August 21 02:55 BST (UK)
I'm getting some good feedback over on that tennis forum (https://www.tennisforum.com/threads/wimbledon-trying-to-identify-a-1978-1980-womens-final-semi-where-the-umpire-had-a-problem-with-his-microphone.1377426/page-2#post-82864564) now.

I've now sent messages to both Wimbledon and the BBC because we've identified a specific match as being the most likely (I was loathe to contact them before as I felt there were far too many possibilities)

However, it's looking increasingly likely that the Gerulaitus/Stewart match, being in the third round, wasn't actually televised, in which case it won't be the one we're after. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed that somebody at Wimbledon or the BBC will take an interest in this puzzle.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: dublin1850 on Tuesday 31 August 21 06:42 BST (UK)
Would there be any value in trying to track down the umpire for his input?
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: Forguette on Tuesday 31 August 21 08:48 BST (UK)
https://clubspark.lta.org.uk/AssociationBritishTennisOfficials

This woman in particular looks a likely source of knowledge. Has written a book where she details involvement from early 70s.

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/6477962.game-set-and-match-for-family-of-tennis-umpires/
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: John915 on Wednesday 01 September 21 11:54 BST (UK)
Good morning,

Just as an aside, I doubt you will find anything on DVD. In that era it would more likely be VCR.

John915
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Thursday 02 September 21 03:24 BST (UK)
Quote from: dublin1850 on Tuesday 31 August 21 06:42 BST (UK)
Would there be any value in trying to track down the umpire for his input?

Quote from: Forguette on Tuesday 31 August 21 08:48 BST (UK)
https://clubspark.lta.org.uk/AssociationBritishTennisOfficials

This woman in particular looks a likely source of knowledge. Has written a book where she details involvement from early 70s.

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/6477962.game-set-and-match-for-family-of-tennis-umpires/

Thanks both - I've sent an email to ABTO to see if they can provide us with any clues.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Thursday 02 September 21 03:42 BST (UK)
Quote from: John915 on Wednesday 01 September 21 11:54 BST (UK)
Good morning,

Just as an aside, I doubt you will find anything on DVD. In that era it would more likely be VCR.

John915

 :)

Yes indeed, that would, of course, have been the most likely medium for the original recording of a live broadcast. But most video recordings will have been transferred to less degradable media for archiving and, if available, are nowadays supplied as downloads (MP4 etc) or on DVD.

I contacted the DVD enquiry section at the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/questions/programme-information/buy-programme) (the reply informed me that they are BBC Studios, the commercial arm of the BBC) who told me that they don't have any DVDs of Wimbledon matches in their catalogue. BBC Studios don't have access to the BBC archive, but they suggested that, since my grandfather featured I could try the Contributor-access link. However, due to the Covid situation that's been suspended until further notice.

I've also made an enquiry at the AELTC website (https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/contact/index.html) and am waiting for a reply.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Sunday 03 April 22 14:05 BST (UK)
Well... no luck so far. Not a sausage from the AELTC, but a promising initial response from an umpires association (via Forguette's link I think?)- which unfortunately came to naught.

The only reason I'm posting here is that I found two more full (around 2 hr)  Wimbledon quarter/semi-finals from 1979/1980 respectively on Youtube and wanted to note the links:

1980 Wimbledon SF Evonne Goolagong vs Tracy Austin (http://"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ROEETYBAQ")

Tracy Austin vs Billie-Jean King Wimbledon 1979 QF (http://"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC3istUnB9E")

Not being a tennis afficionade I can't face just sitting and watching them, at least not right now, so I did a quick scroll along the timeline and didn't see any hint of the incident I'm after, although I may have missed it. If I did miss it I'd really appreciate somebody telling me !  :D
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: dublin1850 on Monday 04 April 22 09:53 BST (UK)
Just as a tip, you can play the videos at double speed using the settings.
Help speed things up.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Monday 04 April 22 12:42 BST (UK)
That's a great idea - and I can already hear Yakety Sax (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uiq0AoP3vJM) and see Benny Hill and crew running around the court ! Much easier to watch now ;D
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Wednesday 06 April 22 14:29 BST (UK)
Having had no success with the other lines of investigation I'm going back to the Womens singles and hoping they'll all eventually appear on Youtube...

Mainly for my own reference, here are the womens singles quarter finals to finals from 1977 to 1980 (information from the Wikipedia Wimbledon Womens Singles pages for each year, e.g. here's 1980 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Wimbledon_Championships_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_singles)). I've included links to all the full match videos (usually an hour and a half to two hours long) I've found on YouTube. I haven't watched any of them yet, although I've quickly scrolled along the timeline for each, and I've had one or two playing at double speed on my second monitor while I've been doing other things - so I could still have missed the incident even if it was in one of these.

1977 WOMENS SINGLES
Quarter-finalsSemi-finalsFinal
Evert v King
Evert v Wade (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4iYdj0ywks)
Wade v Casals
Wade v Stove
Reid v Barker
Barker v Stove
Stove v Navratilova

1978 WOMENS SINGLES
Quarter-finalsSemi-finalsFinal
Evert v King
Evert v Wade
Wade v Jasovec
Evert v Navratilova (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAYLmavIUqY)
Ruzici v Goolagong
Goolagong v Navratilova
Kruger v Navratilova

1979 WOMENS SINGLES
Quarter-finalsSemi-finalsFinal
Navratilova v Fromholz
Navratilova v Austin
Austin v King (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC3istUnB9E)
Navratilova v Evert
Wade v Goolagong
Goolagong v Evert
Turnbull v Evert

1980 WOMENS SINGLES
Quarter-finalsSemi-finalsFinal
Navratilova v King (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOn-sBCr1LA)
Navratilova v Evert
Evert v Jaeger
Evert v Goolagong (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZRTqtKzdYo)
Turnbull v Goolagong
Goolagong v Austin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ROEETYBAQ)
Stevens v Austin

I also found 1980 4th round Goolagong v Mandlikova (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmU5IB2ioxg)
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Friday 24 February 23 06:20 GMT (UK)
One of our cousins has suddenly recalled that it was (they believe) the year that Virginia Wade won, i.e. 1977.

So our new odds-on favourite is the Virginia Wade v Betty Stove 1977 Womens' Singles final where Wade won in three sets, 4–6, 6–3, 6–1

I found a 43 minute video of it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNvkSZdZHec (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNvkSZdZHec), but since the full video of the three set Evert v Wade semi-final (2-6, 6-4, 1-6) was an hour and 40 minutes ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNvkSZdZHec (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNvkSZdZHec) ) it's obviously not the full recording.

So if any tennis fan does happen to have a full recording of this match can you look out for a sound engineer fixing the umpire's microphone at some point. If you do spot it, could you just post a (cropped) screenshot showing the engineer so we can confirm 100% that this is the match.

TIA (and fingers. etc firmly crossed).


Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: John915 on Friday 24 February 23 08:50 GMT (UK)
Good morning,

Might also serve to watch the semi's as well. Wade v Evert and Barker v Stove and the doubles final Navratilova & Stove v ???.

John915
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Friday 24 February 23 13:25 GMT (UK)
Agreed.

The Wade/Evert semi is on Youtube (fullmatch, official Wimbledon channel) and I've already checked that.

A chap over on the tennis forum sells DVDs and has already had a quick scan of the Wade/Stove final for me, but no sign of the incident. I've asked if he can also check the Barker/Stove semi-final, and I'm really keeping my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: kob3203 on Monday 27 February 23 23:30 GMT (UK)
On a sidenote, the BBC outside broadcast cameras seem to be set up mainly on centre court and no 1 court, and only during the later stages of the tournament (gleaned frpm a cursory look through ptogram listings of the free Radio Times archive - https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/issues (https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/issues))

So if we can find the date and court of a specific match we might be able to cross-check to see if it was likely to be televised. I'm thinking specifically of the Gerulaitus v Stewart 3rd round 1978 match mentioned earlier in this topic.
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: ReadyDale on Tuesday 28 February 23 00:10 GMT (UK)
I once got a copy of the BBC's coverage Albert Hall Remembrance Service from the 50's for my mum, as my uncle (who we had lost) featured as part of the Queens Colour Squadron.

Coincidentally, the BBC archive has now moved to a building not far from us (although it is not directly open to the public).
As you now have a reasonable clue as to when this was, maybe this link may be of some help:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/researching-bbc-archives/zrqpwty (https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/researching-bbc-archives/zrqpwty)
Title: Re: Grandfather on TV at Wimbledon (tennis) - not sure of year
Post by: still_looking on Tuesday 28 February 23 14:08 GMT (UK)
Reuters owned or filmed footage, archived by British Pathe. An example below from 1978 shows the TV cameras in use in early round matches in 1978.

https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/133376/ (https://www.britishpathe.com/asset/133376/)

S_L