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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Jan-Bee on Wednesday 11 November 20 18:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone.
I am just starting to research my family tree and have hit a few stumbling blocks already! My maternal grandmother, Ellen Amelia Emmins, born 1902, was one of at least 5 children born to Mary Ann Nunn, born 1881, and William Richard Emmins, Born 1878. My main query at the moment is regarding Mary Ann. Did she remarry after her husband died in 1916 and have a new family, possibly with a Mr Starling? Also, her parents are proving tricky to identify. Have a couple of possibilities but it's not helping that everyone seemed to be called "William" and "Mary Ann" back then!!
Any pointers will be greatfully received.
Many thanks.
Jan
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Hi,
Mary Ann Nunn, states she was born Old Ford abt 1880 so you need to follow her backwards in the census. In 1881 Census she is with Parents William and Mary Nunn at 64 Armagh Rd Parish of Bow RG11/489
Piece: 489
Folio: 142
William Nunn born abt 1844 Leytonstone, Essex
Mary born abt 1849 Clerkenwell
1891 they are at 38 Bradwell Street, MIle Ford Old Town
RG12/307
Piece: 307
Folio: 27
In this Census Mary Ann’s age has been transcribed as 4, when it is infact 11.
Place of birth keep changing, may be better to trace their children, starting with their births
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Welcome to Rootschat Jan :D
Is this the marriage you are thinking of?
Marriages Dec 1921
Emmins Mary A Starling W. Ham 4a 850
Starling William R Emmins W.Ham 4a 850
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was one of at least 5 children
Hello and welcome to RootsChat from me too.
If you look on the GRO website you can search (free, but you need to register) for births with mother's maiden name.
https://www.gro.gov.uk
This will give you these births for EMMINS and NUNN. Interestingly, I can't see Ellen Amelia in 1902 even with similar sounding names? Though I can see her baptism on 11 May 1910 which notes birth date 17 Jan 1902.
Dec qtr 1900 Mary Harriet Alice Victoria (West Ham)
Sep qtr 1904 William Richard (Poplar) (died Mar qtr 1906 West Ham)
Jun qtr 1907 Robert William (West Ham)
Jun qtr 1910 Harriet Sarah (West Ham)
Sep qtr 1911 Charles (West Ham)
Jun qtr 1914 Rosina (Poplar)
Jun qtr 1918 Florence (West Ham) - are you sure William died in 1916?
Jun qtr 1918 Harold (West Ham) (died Sep qtr 1918)
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In case you haven't seen it, interesting case in the Old Bailey - William Richard EMMINS found not guilty.
https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?div=t19020113-145
Note the date: 13 Jan 1902
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If this is William's birth record
EMMINS, WILLIAM RICHARD CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 655
There is this on the CWGC website
PRIVATE
WILLIAM RICHARD EMMINS
Service Number: 19762
Regiment & Unit/Ship
Essex Regiment
9th Bn.
Date of Death
Died 11 August 1916
Buried or commemorated at
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
Pier and Face 10 D.
France
If this is correct then William did indeed die in 1916.
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are you sure William died in 1916?
Ah, I see his death 11 Aug 1916 at Flanders. I can't see any other EMMINS/NUNN marriages in this time period, if Florence and Harold are of the same family I wonder who their father was? ???
Modified to add: sorry, didn't see your post Girl Guide. :)
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Florence and Harold were probably twins then
EMMINS, FLORENCE NUNN
GRO Reference: 1918 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 8
Births Jun 1918
Emmins Harold Nunn W.Ham 4a 8
With his death registered in the following quarter
EMMINS, HAROLD 0
GRO Reference: 1918 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 9
As Maddy says, whoever their father was, can't have been William.
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Entry on Ancestry - Soldier's Effects - for William Richard Emmins who died 11 August 1916 - widow shown as Mary A.
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Hi,
Mary Ann Nunn, states she was born Old Ford abt 1880 so you need to follow her backwards in the census. In 1881 Census she is with Parents William and Mary Nunn at 64 Armagh Rd Parish of Bow RG11/489
Piece: 489
Folio: 142
William Nunn born abt 1844 Leytonstone, Essex
Mary born abt 1849 Clerkenwell
1891 they are at 38 Bradwell Street, MIle Ford Old Town
RG12/307
Piece: 307
Folio: 27
In this Census Mary Ann’s age has been transcribed as 4, when it is infact 11.
Place of birth keep changing, may be better to trace their children, starting with their births
I don't think this is the correct family as they still have Mary (aged 21) with them in 1901. Also, William is a printers joiner (as on Selina and Elizabeth's marriages too), but on Mary Ann 's marriage to William EMMINS, she says her father is a labourer. :-\
In case you don't have it Jan Bee - 19 Nov 1899, William Richard EMMINS (21, labourer) married Mary Ann NUNN (20) at St Mark's, Bow, both residing at 69 Monier Rd. His father William Richard EMMINS, labourer. Her father William NUNN, labourer. Witnesses: Amelia LONG and Charles EMMINS.
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Tricky ...
Another possibility:
In Hackney 1891:
William NUNN 45 Old Ford (watchman)
Mary A 38 Seven Dials
John W 16 Bethnal Green (glass blower)
Jane 12 Bethnal Green
Mary A 9 Old Ford
Rose S 6 Hackney
Thomas W 1 Hackney
RG12/207 pg70
and in 1881 at Tower Hamlets:
William NUNN 34 Bow (night watchman)
Mary 33 Bow
George 9 Bow
Amelia 6 Bethnal Green
John 3 Bethnal Green
Jane 1 Bethnal Green
RG11/492 pg7
Though I realise William is not a "labourer" here either. :-\
Hard to work out the mother's maiden name from these children, possibly MILLS? William Alfred NUNN married Mary Ann MILLS 17 July 1871 at St James the great, Bethnal Green, however this William was a plasterer.
Like you said - too many Williams and Marys!
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Welcome to Rootschat.
The family in 1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWX5-T74
Jamjar
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Hi,
Mary Ann Nunn, states she was born Old Ford abt 1880 so you need to follow her backwards in the census. In 1881 Census she is with Parents William and Mary Nunn at 64 Armagh Rd Parish of Bow RG11/489
Piece: 489
Folio: 142
William Nunn born abt 1844 Leytonstone, Essex
Mary born abt 1849 Clerkenwell
1891 they are at 38 Bradwell Street, MIle Ford Old Town
RG12/307
Piece: 307
Folio: 27
In this Census Mary Ann’s age has been transcribed as 4, when it is infact 11.
Place of birth keep changing, may be better to trace their children, starting with their births
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27S-5R3S
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QM46-3T2
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWPH-QGN
Try as I might, I have had no luck finding corresponding births with the same mmn. :-\
I think this is Jane’s birth:
NUNN, JANE ELIZABETH mmn HUMBERSTONE
GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN Volume 01C Page 179
Jamjar
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If this is William's birth record
EMMINS, WILLIAM RICHARD CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 655
There is this on the CWGC website
PRIVATE
WILLIAM RICHARD EMMINS
Service Number: 19762
Regiment & Unit/Ship
Essex Regiment
9th Bn.
Date of Death
Died 11 August 1916
Buried or commemorated at
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
Pier and Face 10 D.
France
If this is correct then William did indeed die in 1916.
Dec 1877 Poplar 1c 1331
EMMINS William Richard
CHAPMAN Harriet
Deaths:
EMMINS, WILLIAM RICHARD 74
GRO Reference: 1931 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 31
EMMINS, HARRIET 85
GRO Reference: 1946 M Quarter in ESSEX SOUTH-WESTERN Volume 04A Page 230
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27S-RZXG
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QWJC-GZM
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QWNV-WW2
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9NW-ZJM
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWX5-BGB
EMMINS, WILLIAM RICHARD mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 655
EMMINS, CHARLES mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 641
Marriage:
Sep 1913 W.Ham 4a 769
EMMINS Charles
EASTABROOK Caroline
Deaths:
Sep 1957 E.Ham 5a 15
EMMINS Charles 77
Jun 1960 E.Ham 5a 15
EMMINS Caroline 66
Children:
EMMINS, CHARLES THOMAS mmn EASTABROOK
GRO Reference: 1914 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 40
EMMINS, WILLIAM RICHARD mmn EASTABROOK
GRO Reference: 1919 J Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 376
EMMINS, HARRIET SARAH mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 611
Marriage:
Jun 1904 W. Ham 4a 473
RADDEN John Edward
EMMINS Harriet Sarah
Deaths:
RADDEN, JOHN EDWARD 73
GRO Reference: 1955 J Quarter in ESSEX SOUTH WESTERN Volume 05A Page 182
RADDEN, HARRIET S 78
1959 D Quarter in W.HAM 5a 565
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWX5-TGK
Children:
RADDEN, HARRIET REBECCA mmn EMMINO
GRO Reference: 1905 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 26
RADDEN, ADA ELLEN mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 34
EMMINS, EDITH mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1883 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 603
Marriage:
Dec 1906 West Ham 4a 523
UNDERWOOD James
EMMINS Edith
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW8Y-QG4
Children:
UNDERWOOD, JAMES HENRY mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 14
UNDERWOOD, HENRY EDWARD mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 43
UNDERWOOD, GEORGE JAMES mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in KINGSTON Volume 02A Page 390
UNDERWOOD, EDITH ROSE mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1912 D Quarter in KINGSTON Volume 02A Page 772
UNDERWOOD, WILLIAM CHARLES mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1915 M Quarter in KINGSTON Volume 02A Page 782
UNDERWOOD, LILY MAY mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1919 J Quarter in KINGSTON Volume 02A Page 518
UNDERWOOD, JAMES mmn EMMINS
1921 S Quarter in KINGSTON 2a 746
UNDERWOOD, DOROTHY V mmn EMMINS
1923 S Quarter in KINGSTON 2a 709
UNDERWOOD, FREDERICK R mmn EMMINS
1926 J Quarter in KINGSTON 2a 709
EMMINS, LYDIA mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 609
Marriage:
Jun 1906 W. Ham 4a 623
HOY Ernest
EMMINS Lydia
Child:
HOY, LYDIA HARRIET ANNIE EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 14 Occasional Copy: A
Death:
HOY, LYDIA HARRIET ANNIE 0
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 219
EMMINS, ADA mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 609
Marriage:
Jun 1907 W.Ham 4a 445
SHIPPEY Charles
EMMINS Ada
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWX1-95C
Children:
SHIPPEY, CHARLES mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 13
SHIPPEY, CORNELIUS JAMES mmn EMMINS died Mar 1911
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 41
SHIPPEY, JOHN HENRY mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1911 S Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 167
SHIPPEY, WALTER BERT mmn EMMINS
GRO Reference: 1914 M Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 25
Death:
SHIPPEY, WALTER BERT 1913
GRO Reference: DOR Q3/2006 in Swansea (8971B) Reg B165 Entry Number 100
EMMINS, JAMES mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 584
EMMINS, ALBERT VICTOR mmn CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1893 D Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 584
Marriage:
Mar 1916 W.Ham 4a 648
EMMINS Albert V
STERLING Charlotte A
Death:
Mar 1959 Poplar 5d 367
EMMINS Albert V 65
Child:
EMMINS, ALBERT VICTOR mmn STERLING
GRO Reference: 1916 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 822
Death:
EMMINS, ALBERT VICTOR 1916
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/1990 in WORKSOP (6911) Volume 8 Page 1512
Jamjar
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According to Mary Ann's WWI Pension Record Card, her date of birth is 20 Sep 1881. There are a few possibilities for a birth registration, the most likely is:
Mary Ann NUNN Dec qtr 1881 Poplar (1c/608) mmn TYSON
Other children with this mmn:
Jane Elizabeth sep qtr 1878 Bethnal Green
Harriet Sep qtr 1887 Hackney
Thomas William Mar qtr 1890 Hackney
I think these sort of fit with the census details I posted in #10
William NUNN and Mary Hannah TYSON on same marriage registration page Jun qtr 1877 Bethnal Green :)
Jan-Bee, if you want to be sure I'd be inclined to purchase the birth certificate for Mary Ann to see if the date of birth matches that on the Pension Card.
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William NUNN (full age, widower, labourer) married Mary Hannah TYSON 2 April 1877 (full age, spinster) at St James the great, Bethnal Green. His father, George NUNN (spinner), her's William TYSON (deceased). Witnesses: John DAVIS and Ann WILLIAMS.
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The births I can see for NUNN and mmn MILLS around the right time in the right area:
William Alfred Jun qtr 1872 Bethnal Green (possibly died Jun qtr 1872, Bethnal Green)
Elizabeth Ann Sep qtr 1873 Bethnal Green (possibly died Dec qtr 1873 Hackney)
Rebecca Amelia Sep qtr 1874 Bethnal Green
James William Henry Jun qtr 1877 Bethnal Green
These are not necessarily all part of the same family.
There is this possibility for death of William's first wife Mary:
Mary Ann NUNN Mar qtr 1875 Poplar aged 44 :-\
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There is a Victoria Park Cemetery, Hackney burial for William Alfred NUNN aged 3 weeks 17 Jun 1872. the address looks similar to the baptism of Elizabeth below -
Elizabeth Annie bap 6 July 1873 (b 6 Jun 1873) parents William Alfred (plasterer) and Mary Ann at St Jude, Bethnal Green
Rebecca Amelia bap 13 Sep 1874 (b 16 aug 1874) parents William (plasterer) and Mary Ann at St Jude, Bethnal Green
Can't see a baptism for James William Henry NUNN, however there is a marriage 28 April 1910 (to Elizabeth Beatrice EVANS) which has his father: William NUNN, plasterer.
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Jane Elizabeth NUNN and Mary Ann NUNN both baptised 24 Nov 1884 at the Eton Mission, Hackney Wick, parents William (watchman) and Mary Ann of 14 Elgin St
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30 Sept 1897 William NUNN (night watchman, b1845) and son Thomas William (b1890) were admitted to the Hackney Union workhouse.
I think Thomas was in and out of the workhouse for a few years then joined the Navy. He died at sea 23 Mar 1917.
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A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who responded to my request for help and information! What a great bunch of people you are!
Some of the info I already knew and I am gradually working my way through the rest.
Apologies for the delayed response. I am a bit of a technophobe when it comes to computers and the internet and I was looking in the wrong place on here thinking that no-one had responded to my post!
Sorry!!
Now I know how helpful you all are, I will no doubt be posting on here again when I get stuck.....which probably won't be long!!
Many thanks once again.
Jan.
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Hello, William Richard Emmins and Mary Ann Nunn are my great-great grandparents.
I'm currently working on this branch of my family on MyHeritage, and have so far traced Emmins back to my 5x grandparents John and Ann Emmins (Ives), originally from Reading in Berkshire.
William and Mary were the parents of my great grandmother Rosina Emmins (never married). She was born March 1914, due to this she doesnt appear on the censuses (upto 1911) like her elder siblings.