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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: mulberryhouse40 on Thursday 12 November 20 21:46 GMT (UK)
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Wondered if anyone can help me find a birth please. I have searched on GRO and freebmd.
His name is Augustus Theophrutus Wynne Jones. He was born in Victoria, South Wales about 1857, so would imagine it would be under Bedwellty or Abergavenny. His parents were Edward Jones and Margaret Wynne. He was baptised in 1863 in St George’s Church In Tredegar the same day as one of his siblings children . He had quite a few siblings. There is a record of his marriage in 1880 in Swansea. There is an abundance of census records although his name is transposed wrongly on a couple
Some have mixed up the parents name and put him down as Morgan. One of his sisters married surname.
Any help would be gratefully received. Thank you Gill
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Try just his Christian name a year either side of 1857
Louisa Maud
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I can only see one birth
Augustus Edward Jones 1856, Abergavenny with mother’s name Hughes.
Could he be Sarah’s son? Although that doesn’t help in finding him :-\
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Hi Louisa.
Tried either side of 1857 but no luck. There is one but it’s not the right one.
Thanks
Gill
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Hi Haywood
I have looked into whether Sarah was his mother but after dissecting everything he appears to be the son of Edward Jones and Margaret Wynne but will have another look
Thanks
Gill
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Have you found a marriage?
Also have you plotted children's birth to see if he fits in anywhere else in the date order?
LM
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Hi Louisa
Yes marriage was in Swansea in 1880. I have records of his children and his siblings. He is also referred to as a son in Edward Jones will.
Regards
Gill
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You'd think with a name like that he'd stick out ::)
I also note on the 1861 census he's recorded as "dau" ;D
Nothing I'm trying seems to be bringing up anything :-\ I've tried only JONES births, Augustus with no surname etc :-\ What a tricky fella.
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Thank you all for trying ....he certainly is
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Hi Haywood
I have looked into whether Sarah was his mother but after dissecting everything he appears to be the son of Edward Jones and Margaret Wynne but will have another look
Thanks
Gill
How likely do you think it is that Edward and Margaret are his parents? There is a large gap between Edward and Augustus and I cannot see any births registered in between. Regardless of who his parents were, if his birth wasn't registered at all then you would find it hard to prove anything.
Debra :)
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What details d you have for his baptism
LM
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That’s an interesting point LM re the baptism.
Were Edward and Margaret’s other children baptised soon after birth or was there a delay as with Augustus?
In 1871 5326/67/20 he is living with Sarah and family and Edward. Edward is entered as ‘Father in Law’ and Augustus, the next entry as ‘son’. This is ambiguous.
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It's worth noting (Rootschatters) that Sarah was the sister whose child was christened the same day as Augustus. Augustus was christened first with Edward and Margaret as his parents and Sarah's child second.
From a tree I saw there was only four years between Augustus and the previous child of Edward and Margaret. Margaret, going by that tree, would have been around 45. Her age is possible and although the other children were regular until that small gap, her fertility would have been declining so it's not impossible that he was a little late or a miscarriage/stillbirth in between. The tree also indicates most of the other children died in infancy.
The outside possibility of Augustus being Sarah's was why I looked with no surname, in case he was registered under his father's (one of mine pretended to be married to the father at the time of birth). No joy. I looked for "Male JONES" too and although one appears in 1858 on FreeBMD I couldn't find it on GRO. Also wondering if he didn't get registered. Thinking about it, I didn't look to see if the other children of Edward and Margaret were registered...
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Ayashi,
I have just looked at a tree where there is a birth and death for a child John Methusalem Jones 1853-1854.
This child is registered with mmn Griffiths.
Similarly, the tree has Edward George Jones 1844- 1845. This is linked to an indexed birth for George Jones. GRO shows the birth with mmn Evans.
GRO has a birth for a male Jones in September 1858 Abergavenny 11a pg 47 with mother Roberts. Is that the one you have seen?
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Hi all
His baptism is recorded in Monmouthshire baptism records. As above ...yes he was baptised at the same time as his sister’s Child. A couple of us working together have looked at him being the child of Sarah but we had discounted that. We know that he lived with Sarah and Thomas at one stage but as with many records who they are in the family they are not always accurate. All of the families lived close to each other. Sarah was born in USA but all the others appear to have been born here.
The other church linked with this family is St Sannan’s.
Regards
Gill
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From a tree I saw there was only four years between Augustus and the previous child of Edward
Edward was born in 1848 so about 9 years between them.
JONES, EDWARD THOMAS
Mother's maiden surname: WYNN
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 26 Page 36
Debra :)
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Yes Edward Thomas Jones was the son of Edward And Margaret Jones mmn Wynne
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Do you have the older children’s baptisms?
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Do you have the older children’s baptisms?
I have seen them. Thanks
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What have you found on 1861 census for this family, that should be the last sighting
Remember not all babies were registered prior to 1875
LM
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I have found them on 1861, I am wondering if any of these children were registered, unless I can be corrected I cannot find a registration for any of the children on 1861
Also found them 1851 other than that I am flummoxed, to cross match Jones to MMN Wynne there are so many
LM
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LM,
In 1861 there is Augustus 3 yrs.
Edward Thomas 12 yrs b 1849 Abergavenny mmn Wynn
Sarah 24 yrs b USA
1851
Sarah 17yrs
David 10 yrs - birth David Pritchard Jones b 1841 Abergavenny with mmn Wynne
I can’t see any others in between these births
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Hi all thank you very much for helping. A coup,e of children were buried in same grave as Edward and Margaret.
I presume John Methusalem wasn’t registered. We know about him because he is on the grave stone and presume he died before registration.
A couple of children were baptised on the same date. Joanna Marie and Margaret avarina,
7/10/1838. One was born in 1838 and the other in 1836.there doesn’t seem to be any pattern.
Regards
Gill
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I saw the gravestone picture in a published tree with those names and the baptism of Margaret Avarina.
That tree has John Methusalem Jones b July 1853, Crickhowell which seems wrong.
The death date is given as 29th October 1854, Merthyr Tydfil.
There is a death for Methusalem Jones in M T which would fit.
The gravestone looks like October (not sure re year) and 1 month :-\
It’s hard, isn’t it. Maybe they didn’t register all their children.
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Hi Heywood
Thanks for looking everywhere. It’s not easy. The picture of the gravestone was taken by a relation of my family and is in a churchyard St Sannan’s local to her in the area where they all lived. We are both lost in finding Augustus birth details when his move to Swansea and his children etc is well documented. I think he wasn’t registered because he died presumable when a baby.
Thank you for looking
Gill
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...there doesn’t seem to be any pattern.
There IS a pattern of several of their children not being registered. Perhaps the Registrar in their district was not as competent as they should have been.
Debra :)