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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: bethanjane on Friday 13 November 20 07:57 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
My G.G Grandmother was named Mary Jane Drake in her 1864 marriage banns.
Married in aberystwyth to Albert Dawson.
Father is listed possibly as Michael Drake, although the transcriber seems to think he is named Macfiael.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jaJsxPnBP_8QoGYlL_VOgbdAleT78lP4/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jaJsxPnBP_8QoGYlL_VOgbdAleT78lP4/view?usp=sharing)
(Am not sure how to link photos)
She lived and died in Aberystywth following her marriage, known as Jane Dawson
In every census her place of birth is listed as Ireland, and Dublin, Ireland in one.
Listed age seems to put her born around 1848
I cannot find anything at all about either Mary Jane or Michael/Macfiael before the marriage, or anything about the father after the marriage.
In the local paper archives there is a petty sessions article about her being accused by a neighbour of fleeing Ireland following a murder, which then led to my GG Grandmother striking her.
From the local paper archives, she seems a bit feisty, and was always in the court for fighting, drinking, being a nuisance.
I have ordered the marriage certificate, but not sure where to go from here!
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That is her marriage certificate image that you have posted, the signatures appear to be original so not a copy from the GRO.
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Yes sorry,what I meant to write is that I have ordered it and I am waiting for it to arrive.
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The image that you have posted is a copy of the parish register entry for their marriage.
A copy from a register office may be a duplicate if it has been scanned from the original entry which you already have. If it is from the GRO it would normally be a copy of the record that was sent from the church which is not generally a copy with original signatures. Sometimes the register office or GRO will issue a handwritten or typed transcript if the original is poor.
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Oh I see, so I have likely wasted my money then!
Ah well, live and learn!!
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Something we have probably all done, At least you have a copy with signatures as well :). I do think it is more likely to say Michael but it is always best to look at all options
I did wonder if she was related to Frederick Drake who married in the same church in 1866 but his place of birth is Staffordshire and his father John Drake so we can probably eliminate him. No other Drakes appearing in the area.
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There is baptism of a Margaret Mary Jane Drake, 1850, Dublin (COI), father, Francis, a plumber, mother, Margaret. Of course, this would make her 14 when she married. Do you have her father's occupation?
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According to the marriage banns, father Michael/Macfiael was a labourer.
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Do birth registrations for their children confirm her maiden name as Drake or something else?
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I haven't bought any of the birth certificates of her children. The registers I find online list her as Jane Dawson or Mary Dawson.
That would be a great next step I think, to find the birth certificates
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Census ages have has as
1881 - 37
1891 - 50
1901 - 76
Do you have her age in 1871 census?
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You can look up the birth registrations on the General Registry Office website. You have to register to search the indexes but it's free to register.
I can find registrations confirming mothers name as Drake.
One of the boys has a middle name Kendrick, don't know if that is significant.
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No for some reason I'm unable to find the 1871 census. I'll spend some time looking tonight.
Kendrick and Kenrick seems to be a name used a few times in her descendents. Definitely something to look into.
I'll register with the website now as I was searching BMD and it wasn't showing!
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Census ages have has as
1881 - 37
1891 - 50
1901 - 76
Do you have her age in 1871 census?
She aged at twice the normal rate! She may not have known her correct age.
She might also have been mistaken about where she was born if her parents were dead or if they moved around when she was young.
The railway line to Aberystwith was constructed 1855-69. It's possible that Michael was employed in building it. Navvies were mobile and some lived in camps near their worksite. Some had their families with them.
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The 1871 census states that she was born in Mold, Montgomeryshire. They are in Carmarthen.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V553-LWZ
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Daughter, Ema, born 1870, Aberystwith, MMN Drake (GRO)
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Well Mold makes everything even more complex!!
Sorry I cant upload files properly, but this is what makes me think she at least sounded like she was from Ireland rather than Wales.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bYZCRllr-gA4i2u5RQPQTKJ2xD88WEz_/view?usp=sharing
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Albert also keeps moving the goal posts. In 1871, he was born in Chester & he is a plasterer. In 1891, he was born in Wrexham & he is a coal dealer.
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The 1871 census states that she was born in Mold, Montgomeryshire. They are in Carmarthen.
Still on my railway theme, Chester-Mold railway opened 1849. Linked to Holyhead-Chester line. Holyhead-Kingstown (now Dun Laoghaire) was the mailboat route to & from Ireland. A mineral line was laid to Mold. Michael may have been a railway labourer or a miner, both mobile jobs. I can't see Mary Jane or Michael in Wales on 1851 census. They may have moved elsewhere in Britain or gone to Ireland. Railway construction boom in Ireland began later than in Britain.
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Albert Edward (1883) Dawson's Dad was also Albert Edward Dawson (1844) so that may be some of the confusion?
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The 1871 census states that she was born in Mold, Montgomeryshire. They are in Carmarthen.
Still on my railway theme, Chester-Mold railway opened 1849. Linked to Holyhead-Chester line. Holyhead-Kingstown (now Dun Laoghaire) was the mailboat route to & from Ireland. A mineral line was laid to Mold. Michael may have been a railway labourer or a miner, both mobile jobs. I can't see Mary Jane or Michael in Wales on 1851 census. They may have moved elsewhere in Britain or gone to Ireland. Railway construction boom in Ireland began later than in Britain.
Oh Gosh, this is quite a lot of amazing avenues to explore...
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Some snippets of Aberystwyth history.
https://www.aberystwythguide.org.uk/history/to1880.shtml
1862 work began on railway Machynlleth-Aberystwyth
1864 railway to Shrewsbury opened. This was start of decline of local trade based on shipping.
You can look up other decades in the guide.
Railway development in places where Mary Jane Drake was might be coincidence.
I wonder who Mrs Hines was, the woman she had a dispute with and whether her accusation was genuine.
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The father's name is clearly Michael. Macfiael is just nonsense.
The Jane may not be a baptismal name.
What were the children's names?
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The father's name is clearly Michael. Macfiael is just nonsense.
The Jane may not be a baptismal name.
What were the children's names?
Yes agree, the surname is also transcribed as DRAKER, so someone had a bad day....
Children are
Mary Anne Dawson 1868
Charles Kenrick Dawson - 1872
Thomas Edward Dawson - 1877
Albert Edward Dawson - 1883
John Austin Dawson - 1888
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Their were 2 more children missing from your list.
Martha Jane, born about 1866 & Ema, 1870-71. Neither Martha Jane or Mary Ann can be found on the GRO.
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Their were 2 more children missing from your list.
Martha Jane, born about 1866 & Ema, 1870-71. Neither Martha Jane or Mary Ann can be found on the GRO.
Oh interesting.
What are the reasons they wouldn't have been listed in the GRO?
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There is a tree on familysearch which names Mary Jane's mother.....Joanna Donovan
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MTLR-XLD
Martha Jane's baptism, 1865
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1R4-ZFH
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Martha Jane Dowson b 1865 Aberystwyth mmn Drake
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That's actually a tree I made a fair while ago that I thought I had deleted. It was a guessing tree where I would try and fit things together. I can't remember why it didn't work, but some of the info further down the line didn't match.
Thanks for bringing it back to my attention, I'll change privacy so that it doesn't get mistakenly used!
There is a tree on familysearch which names Mary Jane's mother.....Joanna Donovan
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MTLR-XLD
Martha Jane's baptism, 1865
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1R4-ZFH
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Martha Jane in 1881, in Salford
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-HY2K
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These are baptisms in Killeagh Parish to Michael Drake and Julia/Joanna Donovan
Here is Mary 18th August 1844
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634264#page/73/mode/1up
Others are
Patrick January 1841
Honora June 184
Honora October 1848
You have now discounted this one I believe.
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I'm going to go back to it, I can't remember why it didn't work, so now with a better eye and understanding I think I'll reopen the line and see where it goes, tick the box one way or another for definite, thanks for bringing it back to the surface!
These are baptisms in Killeagh Parish to Michael Drake and Julia/Joanna Donovan
Here is Mary 18th August 1844
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634264#page/73/mode/1up
Others are
Patrick January 1841
Honora June 184
Honora October 1848
You have now discounted this one I believe.
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This is possibly the marriage of that Mary Drake
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11310/8150285.pdf
Maybe the reason it was discounted
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Martha's marriage, 1887 to Reuben Constantine
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NND4-7Q6 Added Page No. 47
Martha & family, 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7ZRH-SMM
1901 census Widowed
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9LY-LLX
Martha returned to Aberystwith & re married in 1906
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D8X-LYG
Martha's death 1909
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2J34-JKF
In the 1911 census, of the 4 girls Martha Jane had, 3 were in service & the youngest Martha in a home for girls. All in Lancashire.
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I think this is a full list of the children of Albert and Mary Jane.
DOWSON, MARTHA JANE
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH Volume 11B Page 54
DOZON, MARY
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH Volume 11B Page 61
DAWSON, EMA
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 54
(died 1871 aged 1)
DAWSON, CHARLES KENRICK
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 59
DAWSON, THOMAS EDWARD
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH Volume 11B Page 61
DAWSON, TERESA EMILY
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH Volume 11B Page 64
(died 1881 aged 1)
DAWSON, ALBERT EDWARD
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 55
DAWSON, DAVID WILLIAM
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 55
(died 1885 aged under 1 year)
DAWSON, JOHN AUSTIN
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 57
(died 1886 aged under 1 year)
I cannot see a registration for the John Austin supposedly born in 1888.
Debra :)
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I think this is a full list of the children of Albert and Mary Jane.
DOWSON, MARTHA JANE
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH Volume 11B Page 54
DOZON, MARY
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH Volume 11B Page 61
DAWSON, EMA
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 54
(died 1871 aged 1)
DAWSON, CHARLES KENRICK
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1872 J Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 59
DAWSON, THOMAS EDWARD
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH Volume 11B Page 61
DAWSON, TERESA EMILY
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in ABERYSTWYTH Volume 11B Page 64
(died 1881 aged 1)
DAWSON, ALBERT EDWARD
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 55
DAWSON, DAVID WILLIAM
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 55
(died 1885 aged under 1 year)
DAWSON, JOHN AUSTIN
Mother's maiden name: DRAKE
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in ABERYSTWITH Volume 11B Page 57
(died 1886 aged under 1 year)
I cannot see a registration for the John Austin supposedly born in 1888.
Debra :)
Wow, that's brilliant. Thank you.
There are 2 John Austin's I found out yesterday!
One belonging to Mary Jane Drake and one belonging to her daughter Martha Jane
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Martha's marriage, 1887 to Reuben Constantine
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NND4-7Q6 Added Page No. 47
Martha & family, 1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7ZRH-SMM
1901 census Widowed
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9LY-LLX
Martha returned to Aberystwith & re married in 1906
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D8X-LYG
Martha's death 1909
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2J34-JKF
In the 1911 census, of the 4 girls Martha Jane had, 3 were in service & the youngest Martha in a home for girls. All in Lancashire.
Thank you for all this.
I'll print everything and start trying to fit the jigsaw together!
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1851 census, Albert Dawson, Wrexham
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG8Z-YCD
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Mention this chap, probably no connection, but I find him interesting! And because of some of the names, Michael, Theresa, Mary Jane. Sorry!
A marriage on FamilySearch, Cheshire Parish Registers.
14 July 1862, at St. Bridget, Chester
Daniel Drake, 22, father Michael Drake
+
Mary Ann Devreaux, father George
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3RV-463
Sadly no image (will be online somewhere) for father's occupation, which might rule it out
But it was by licence, we can see the allegation
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DB1W-7WH?i=421
Daniel was a police officer!
This looks like him in Chester in 1861 (piece 2625 folio 102 page 9, RD Great Boughton)
Daniel Drake, 21, Police Constable, born Ireland, in lodgings, says he is married!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M721-LMW
There seems to be a story about him in the Chester Observer, 19 July 1862, "The Effects of Jealousy"
Eliza Williams, Mary Anne Williams, who had transferred her name into that of Drake, Ann Bradley, and Daniel Drake charged by a police constable with causing a disturbance.
Drake had promised to marry Ann Bradley, but had instead decided to marry Mary Williams. In the altercation it is claimed that Bradley bit Mrs Williams in the arm.
Two oddities, no mention of Drake being a policeman (if it is the same man), and Mary Ann being Williams rather than Devreax. The argument happened on the previous Sunday, so probably the night before the marriage.
Anyway, they went to America.
I think we can see Mary and two daughters,Mary J, 5, and Teresa, 18 months, arriving in New York on the Virginia in 1868
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M721-LMW
Possible birth registrations, one in Chester, one in Wales
DRAKE, MARY JANE
Mother's Maiden Surname: DEVERAUX
GRO Reference: 1862 D Quarter in GREAT BOUGHTON Volume 08A Page 349
DRAKE, THERESA
Mother's Maiden Surname: WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in BANGOR Volume 11B Page 544
So it looks as though Mary Ann went under two surnames.
There is a catholic baptism record of Mary Jane, 18 Jan 1863, St. Werburgh's, Chester (they have written in 1862 in error I think).
Only one godparent is named, Jane Drake.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6LKF-JH
1870 US census, Oregon
Danl Drake 38 Farmer, born Ireland
Mary A Drake 27 Keeping house England
Mary J Drake 9 England
Theresa Drake 5 Wales
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QT9-JPN?i=115
1880 in Los Angeles
Daniel now a foreman.
Mary Jane not there, Teresa is, and five more children born in Oregon and California
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YBF-91YB?i=1
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Daniel Drake's age in America is a bit older than that seen in England.
There is a death in Los Angeles, 17 Feb 1885, of a Daniel Drake (edited)
Age 48, married, born Ireland
Suicide by strangulation? strychnine (in newspapers in Feb 1885!)
Two images, about ten down, v. faint
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9SF-FBSM?i=85
Could that be him? :-\ (EDIT NO, but now I'm torn!)
Must be pointed out that there are anglican baptisms of some of the Dawson children in Aberystwyth.
There is very little Drake activity in Aberystwyth, Rosie has mentioned a marriage.
Two births with mother's maiden name Drake have come up, Kate Wood, Sep qtr 1866, and Mary Spooner, June qtr 1871. No idea who they are. Can't see them at all.
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Theresa's age was out on that 1868 voyage I think.
Mary Jane Drake may have married Richard Silver in LA in 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939Z-BNTS-M?i=495
Daniel Drake, 47, born Ireland, Foreman, is on a 1886 LA electors register, having been naturalized 8 July 1884
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GT7V-NQQ
So that seems to rule out the Feb 1885 death? (it was not in 1884 as I reported originally)
Birth of Harbert (Herbert?) Drake, 21 March 1885, Alameda, California
Parents Daniel (b. Ireland), Section Foreman, and Mary A Deavarex (b. England)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XX69-14N
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Must be pointed out that there are anglican baptisms of some of the Dawson children in Aberystwyth.
Were they pre-1874/5? That's when the Catholic church in Aberystwyth was built. Our Lady and the Angels and St. Winifride. Closed 2012 and put up for sale this year.
I attended the church during a short stay in the town. 2 altar servers had the same surname as me - a surname from the west of Ireland.
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Hi
They go on right up to John Austin, bap 16 June 1886
Parents Albert Edward (plasterer) and Mary Jane Dawson. Moor Lane.
So nothing so far for Mary Jane to say she was a catholic. It could be the influence of one or other parent perhaps.
Sorry to have gone off on a tangent with Daniel. It was in the hope there might be a relative around somewhere!
John
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Two births with mother's maiden name Drake have come up, Kate Wood, Sep qtr 1866, and Mary Spooner, June qtr 1871. No idea who they are. Can't see them at all.
I couldn't find them later either and they both seem to be stand alone births. Might be interesting to see who their mothers were.
Debra :)
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Hi
They go on right up to John Austin, bap 16 June 1886
Parents Albert Edward (plasterer) and Mary Jane Dawson. Moor Lane.
So nothing so far for Mary Jane to say she was a catholic. It could be the influence of one or other parent perhaps.
Sorry to have gone off on a tangent with Daniel. It was in the hope there might be a relative around somewhere!
John
Daniel was brilliant.
I find myself often all over the world following leads, am glad to know its "normal"
I keep finding myself looking at a glassmaker called Michael who was born in Ireland, had a daughter Mary Jane. A glass maker I think is something you're trained for and a labourer is just something you did back in those days, like heavy lifting rather than a skill so it seems unlikely that he wouldn't have put glassmaker on the banns.
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Church Street in the 1861 census had a lot of guest houses.
I'm wondering if the address they put in the marriage was a guest house rather than a permanent address
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Thought you might be interested in Charles Kenrick Dawson's tree on familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/KLXB-N15
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Charles Dawson marriage to Martha Jones, 1841, Chester
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NHCY-F8F
Added
Charles burial, Brymbo, 1845. Martha is also buried there, 1857
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC51-DCJ
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Thought you might be interested in Charles Kenrick Dawson's tree on familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/KLXB-N15
Excellent tree!
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Thought you might be interested in Charles Kenrick Dawson's tree on familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/KLXB-N15
In a rather interesting turn of events, my brother and I have different father's, but I just found my brother's GG Uncle on his Dad's line in my father's line.
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1851 census, Albert Dawson, Wrexham
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG8Z-YCD
Charles Dawson marriage to Martha Jones, 1841, Chester
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NHCY-F8F
For info.
These appear to be the baptisms of the children from the above 1851 census and it looks as if Albert was born 1844 and baptised 1845 also Albert has middle name Henry on his baptism record and Edward on GRO birth registration ???
Charles has middle name Kenrick on baptism and Kenneth on GRO birth registration
On ALL baptisms father named as
Charles, occ Saddler
mother named as
Martha
source Denbighshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1994
Charles Kenrick DAWSON
Baptism 14 Aug 1842 Wrexham Denbighshire
Charles Kenneth DAWSON mmn JONES
1842 S Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 265
Albert Henry Dawson
Bapt. 5 Jan 1845 Wrexham Denbighshire
Albert Edward DAWSON mmn JONES
1844 M Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 310
Mary Jane DAWSON
Bapt. 5 Jul 1846 Wrexham Denbighshire
Mary Jane DAWSON mmn JONES
1846 J Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 305