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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Montycat on Friday 13 November 20 10:16 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I would be extremely grateful for some fresh eyes to look at this, please.
I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham.
I have John William Robson on the 1871 census at 13 Normandy Street, Sunderland with his father, John Adamson Robson, sailmaker, his mother Mary Walker Robson and his older sisters, Ann and Jane.
The 1881 census shows Mary Walker Robson widowed and living with her widowed son-in-law Dixon Robson at 7 Chester Oval in Sunderland, along with Ann, Jane and John William.
In the 1891 census, John William Robson is 22 years old, a colliery clerk, and living at 2 Park Villa, Heaton with his mother, Mary Walker Robson and his sister Annie, along with a boarder named Andrew Robson.
The 1901 census shows John William Robson aged 32 (this time it says he was born in Hartlepool), still a colliery clerk and living at 32 King John Terrace in Heaton with his wife, Jessie Elizabeth Best, aged 30, born in Gateshead (b. 21 June 1870? d. 24 July 1940?). They have a son, Douglas, aged 1 and a boarder, Thomas Hare, a librarian/scripture reader from Frome.
All of this ties in with handwritten family trees created by other members of the family.
Family legend has it that there was a falling-out between John William Robson and his wife, Jessie Elizabeth, regarding the possibility of his sister-in-law moving in to live with them, with John issuing the ultimatum, “It’s either her or me!”.
The next census, in 1911, shows Jessie Elizabeth Robson living with Mary Fenwick, her sister, at 42 Ninth Avenue in Heaton. Living with them are Jessie’s children, Douglas, Edith, Doris and John and boarders, Mr and Mrs Oakes.
Jessie is listed as Married and their youngest child is 2 years old, but I cannot find John William Robson anywhere. John William was apparently never heard of again.
As his name is fairly common in the North East, I have found several people of the same name, but none I can confidently pin down.
I feel I am going around in circles and getting rather dizzy! I would be really grateful for some help.
Many, many thanks for any pointers.
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Will briefly summarise as it's a long report:
Newcastle Evening Chronicle 11 April 1913
Headlines: Children neglected in Newcastle - Blaydon fishmonger sent to prison - A Shocking Case
John William Robson,44, described as a fishmonger from Blaydon summoned on a charge of neglecting his children, he pleaded not guilty.
Defendent at one time was a cashier at a colliery but had gone down a scale until he was now a fried fish monger, cohabiting with a widow who owned a fish shop. The defendant had left his family five years earlier and had not even seen his youngest child. He was failing to pay maintenance to his family.
Jessie Elizabeth Robson of Ninth Avenue Heaton, said she had married the defendant 18 years ago and had five children, four of whom were under 16. defendant had left her five years before to go and live with the widow but had been seeing the widow for two years prior to him leaving. The defendant had had three children with the widow.
The report says it was a daily occurence that he was drunk, he took money from the business to achieve this.
He was sentenced to three months with hard labour and ordered to pay for his wife and family when he came out of prison.
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That is a very good find sgf28 ;D
Could this be them in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCL-DH8
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ROBSON, DOROTHY ANNIE mmn MCGARR
GRO Reference: 1910 June Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 1177
Marriage Dec qtr 1895
Dalkin Matthew
McGarr Mary Elizabeth
Newcastle T. 10b 192
Deaths Mar 1904
DALKIN Matthew age33 Newcastle T. 10b 2
When did Jessie die :-\
Marriage June qtr 1943 :-\
Dalkin Mary E
Robson John W (spouse Dalkin)
Nthmbld. S. 10b 639
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Wow! I cannot believe you have found that for us! How very sad and how awful for them!
I'm glad Jessie had the support of her sister.
I really cannot thank you enough for this sgf28 and rosie99!
I have an elderly relative who has been wondering about this for most of their life, so this is priceless. I cannot go into details, but it will explain a lot for them.
Thank you so, so much.
Rosie99, I think Jessie died in 1940 (24th July?)? I can't find a reference in my papers, so I might have just got that from a relatives handwritten family tree.
Thank you so much.
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Hint..... ;D
In the 1939 register look at the entry for Ethel Hetherington in Newcastle upon Tyne ;)
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I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham.
He actually appears to have been born in Hartlepool (as in 1901 & 1911 censuses).
3rd q 1868, Hartlepool 10a, 143, John William Robson, mother’s maiden surname Douglas.
ROBSON, DOROTHY ANNIE mmn MCGARR
GRO Reference: 1910 June Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 1177
Another child: 3rd q 1908, Gateshead 10a, 1163, Harold Robson, mmn McGarr
This might be him at the Isolation Hospital at Winlaton https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCG-MRS
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Hello
I would be extremely grateful for some fresh eyes to look at this, please.
I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham.
I have John William Robson on the 1871 census at 13 Normandy Street, Sunderland with his father, John Adamson Robson, sailmaker, his mother Mary Walker Robson and his older sisters, Ann and Jane.
...
All of this ties in with handwritten family trees created by other members of the family.
...
Further to Jen
The Poster has two families mixed up here.
There are 28 John William ROBSONs Births 1866 to 1870 (GRO Index).
According to the names in the 1871 Census (not seen) but given by the Poster it looks as though that Census Marriage might be:-
John Adamson Robson
Mary Walker Douglass
District Sunderland 1854
John William Robson born Sunderland 1867 was Mother Maiden Surname Craggs.
The one born Hartlepool 1868 was Mother M. S. Douglas.
I would recommend the original poster should recheck and work the Family Tree backward from a more recent known confirmed relation, rather that just pick any person of the right name blind in a Census, from a name and approximate Birth year and place.
Mark
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Further to Jen
The Poster has two families mixed up here.
There are numerous circa 28 John William ROBSONs born 1866 to 1870.
According to the names in the 1871 Census (not seen) but given by the Poster it looks as though that Census Marriage might be:-
John Adamson Robson
Mary Walker Douglass
District Sunderland 1854
John William Robson born Sunderland 1867 was Mother Maiden Surname Craggs.
The one born Hartlepool 1868 was Mother M. S. Douglas.
I would recommend the original poster should recheck and work the Family Tree backward from a more recent known confirmed relation, rather that just pick any person of the right name blind in a Census, from a name and approximate Birth year and place.
You are very patronising!
I would recommend that you discover how the poster has reached the conclusion he has without stating baldly that they have 'picked any person of the right name blind in a census'.
John William Robson born Sunderland 1867 was Mother Maiden Surname Craggs.
I can't see anywhere in this thread where this birth has been mentioned.
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The Poster has two families mixed up here.
In the 1891 census John William Robson, a colliery clerk is with his mother Mary W. Robson who is the head of household and states that he was born in Hartlepool. Edit he is 22 years old in 1891
Are you saying that the 1901 John William Robson, a colliery clerk born Hartlepool, married to Jessie, and who is clearly the person mentioned in the newspaper article of 1913 is a different person? If so, how have you come to that conclusion? Edit he is 32 years old in 1901
In the 1881 census he is with his mother Mary W Robson, he is 12 years old and his place of birth is Hartlepool.
It is only in the 1871 census that his place of birth is stated to be Sunderland.
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Hello
I would be extremely grateful for some fresh eyes to look at this, please.
I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham.
I have John William Robson on the 1871 census at 13 Normandy Street, Sunderland with his father, John Adamson Robson, sailmaker, his mother Mary Walker Robson and his older sisters, Ann and Jane.
...
All of this ties in with handwritten family trees created by other members of the family.
...
"I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham."
The Mother of the one in the 1871 Census quoted was a Douglass at Marriage. GRO Birth Index 1868 has District Hartlepool for Mother Maiden Surname Douglas.
Mark
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Hello
I would be extremely grateful for some fresh eyes to look at this, please.
I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham.
I have John William Robson on the 1871 census at 13 Normandy Street, Sunderland with his father, John Adamson Robson, sailmaker, his mother Mary Walker Robson and his older sisters, Ann and Jane.
...
All of this ties in with handwritten family trees created by other members of the family.
...
"I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham."
I agree that is what has been said.
However there seems little doubt that, working backwards through the censuses (as you recommend and clearly what the original poster has done), the actual place of birth is Hartlepool. The only census in which the place of birth is stated to be Sunderland is the 1871 census, but it is clearly the same family as in the later censuses.
Unless your researches can conclusively prove differently, of course.
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Hello
I would be extremely grateful for some fresh eyes to look at this, please.
I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham.
I have John William Robson on the 1871 census at 13 Normandy Street, Sunderland with his father, John Adamson Robson, sailmaker, his mother Mary Walker Robson and his older sisters, Ann and Jane.
...
All of this ties in with handwritten family trees created by other members of the family.
...
"I am looking for a John William Robson born 1868/9 in Sunderland, Durham."
The Mother of the one in the 1871 Census quoted was a Douglass at Marriage. GRO Birth Index 1868 has District Hartlepool for Mother Maiden Surname Douglas.
I just noticed that you edited your posting after my previous reply.
Please look at the 1881 census, where you will find Mary W, together with the children she had with her in 1871, Ann Jane and John (stated born Sunderland in 1871 and Hartlepool in 1881 and thereafter). In the same household is her relative William Douglass.
I think to suggest its a different person because of a missing 's' in the surname on a birth registration is stretching things a bit.
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Hello again
Apologies for not getting back sooner, but the PC was needed by one of my children!
Many thanks to you all for your research and guidance. It is really, really appreciated.
I am very sorry if I have made any mistakes or, very probably, just not expressed my original post very clearly. I am a beginner at all this and this is why I really do appreciate all your thoughts and comments. I can learn from it all. I certainly don't mean to frustrate anyone!
I did start this research with a 'known' in that it came from conversations with my elderly, living relative who knew their direct ancestor, Jessie Elizabeth Robson (Best) and knew that the family had lived in Heaton, etc. This relative had heard very little about Jessie's husband (except for his name and parents' names and his occupation) and that is why I posted my query.
We had no idea where John William Robson was born, I took Sunderland from the census as JenB suggests and I did point out on my original post that another census says Hartlepool. Maybe I should not have mentioned it, but I didn't know which census was correct and was conscious of trying to give as much information as I thought I had identified without saying anything to potentially identify my living relative.
JenB, I have looked at the census entry you hinted at and marvelled at the address as I know the street! I will look into this further.
Many thanks again to everyone for helping to solve a big part of this mystery and giving me so much more to look into.
Cat
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How marvellous that you are now able to tell your relative the full story.
I am very sorry if I have made any mistakes or, very probably, just not expressed my original post very clearly. I am a beginner at all this and this is why I really do appreciate all your thoughts and comments. I can learn from it all. I certainly don't mean to frustrate anyone!
There’s no need to apologise :)
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Hello again
Apologies for not getting back sooner, but the PC was needed by one of my children!
Many thanks to you all for your research and guidance. It is really, really appreciated.
I am very sorry if I have made any mistakes or, very probably, just not expressed my original post very clearly. I am a beginner at all this and this is why I really do appreciate all your thoughts and comments. I can learn from it all. I certainly don't mean to frustrate anyone!
No apologies necessary, from the information you gave about John William and his parents it was clear which JW you were referring to. ;D.
I am really pleased that with the kick start we had from sgf28 with that newspaper report we were able to locate him as you asked.
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Death: 1st q. 1947, Northumberland South 1b, 532, John William Robson aged 78.
Newcastle Evening Chronicle, 20th March 1947.
Robson, South Gosforth, 24 Windsor Terrace, 17th, aged 78 years, John William, beloved husband of Mary Elizabeth. Cremation private.
Check the address against the 1939 register ;)
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Death: 3rd q. 1957, Northumberland Central 1b, 198, Mary Elizabeth Robson, aged 83.
Newcastle Evening Chronicle, 15th July 1957
Robson, Bedlington, 73 Hartlands (daughter's residence) July 12 aged 83 years, Mary Elizabeth, beloved wife of the late John William Robson of Gosforth. Was cremated today (Monday)
John William & Mary Elizabeth's daughter Marjorie (born 1912) was living in Bedlington in 1939.