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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Helina on Wednesday 18 November 20 08:47 GMT (UK)
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On the 1861 census translation Susan Woodward is down as a improver instead of S or M etc "Relation Improver" cannot see it on the original. Any ideas would be welcome
helina
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Please can you give the census reference for the particular person you are talking about?
I can see 35 people called Susan Woodward in 1861!
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For questions like this, to give a considered reply it is better to give all the details, for instance where does it have "Relation Improver" ? if you can't give the census reference, at least give her age and location.
Stan
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Out for the day will give details when I return. Helina
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It is RG 9; Piece: 20; Folio: 105; Page: 69; the census has
Name: Susan Woodward
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: 1819
Relation: Improver
Gender: Female
Her occupation is Dressmaker.
Stan
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Improver looks like her ability as a dressmaker. The person before her is also an improver and the woman before that is an apprentice - all are dressmakers living with the Head of the household whose occupation I can't read
Kay
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Please can you give the census reference for the particular person you are talking about?
I can see 35 people called Susan Woodward in 1861!
me too but then I tried (on Ancestry) putting Improver into the keyword field and this census came up
Piece 20, folio 105, page 69
and the transcript does say Relation: Improver
Looking at the image, Head of the household is Thomas Godwin, Steward Dom[estic] Servant,
wife Frances Godwin is a dressmaker
Then there are 4 "unmarried" - that's in the correct column, females listed (all with occ of dressmaker)
Caroline Weiss relationship col : App (apprentice), age 17
Katherine Kanelly relationship col: Improver, age 30
Susan Woodward dittoed the above , age 42
Ellen White relationship col Serv[ant]
At a guess (given the ages) an improver could be someone who'd completed her basic apprenticeship and continued to 'improve' or widen her skills but was not yet top of the tree within the business hierarchy .
I'd imagine that unless they were able to start their own business they possibly may be Improvers till they retired :-)
Boo
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Does it say ‘unknown’ written in a scruffy, hasty way ?
It would make sense re the relationship to the house holder if the person answering the question i.e. a child/young person didn’t know
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A dressmaker improver - someone who did alterations to clothes, rather than make new clothes?
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This is the transcription for her on Familysearch. Not only have they managed to transcribe her relation as nephew but have her age wrong!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7K8-MPF
William
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Does it say ‘unknown’ written in a scruffy, hasty way ?
It would make sense re the relationship to the house holder if the person answering the question i.e. a child/young person didn’t know
I see Improver, though its not the best handwriting. Servant and apprentice were usually put in the relationship col as that was the 'relationship' to the head of the household (or more likely in this case the wife of the head, but back then the 'man of the house' took precedence) so I assume the 4 women were all employees in one capacity or another.
Boo
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The instructions on the schedule for the column "Relation to Head of Family" are "State whether wife, son, daughter or other relative, visitor, boarder, etc. or servant" The householder has apparently decided that Susan Woodward did not come under any of those and put improver, for some reason.
Stan
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Thank you for your replies I am now wiser. Alot of the occupations in the past are a mystery
helina
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Improver, learning a trade without doing an apprenticeship.
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Thanks youngtug
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Improver, learning a trade without doing an apprenticeship.
Not necessarily, some trades an improver was someone at the next stage after having served their apprenticeship.
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Which ones?
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Which ones?
Hairdresser
Annie
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Why do a 5 or 7 year apprenticeship and then have to be an improver.
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Why do a 5 or 7 year apprenticeship and then have to be an improver.
I believe a Hairdresser does 3 yrs apprenticeship then becomes an improver for 2 yrs although I'm open to correction.
It's a long time since I was in college on a hairdressing course.
Annie
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Why do a 5 or 7 year apprenticeship and then have to be an improver.
I believe a Hairdresser does 3 yrs apprenticeship then becomes an improver for 2 yrs although I'm open to correction.
It's a long time since I was in college on a hairdressing course.
Annie
That is exactly what I did, without the college part. We trained in the salon, we had a separate salon solely for training, learning to shampoo each other and models, then our bosses. It was six months before we were allowed to shampoo a client, then only certain clients who were happy for an apprentice to do it. The rest of the training was very rigorous, including board work (making switches and hair pieces). We were sent to London for our colour training at L’Oréal.
I dread to think what the cost of an apprenticeship like that would be today, I know it cost my parents a lot many years ago. The rules were very strict, but it was very good grounding for dealing with the public.
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The dictionary I viewed had the word "improver" as an outdated occupation.
We know she was a dressmaker but we don't know if she sewed by hand or used a sewing machine (invented 1846).
When we view the absolutely beautiful dresses of 1861 we can see most are finely and intricately decorated.
As most females of my age I learnt to sew before I was ten years old and when I was ten years old I made my new school blouses, but made a huge mess of sewing on the collars using my mother's Singer sewing machine. (If the collars needed to be "skewiff", then I made a perfect job) :D I think I would have needed to be an "improver" to do that properly.
My conclusion is that the lady was an experienced dressmaker.
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Experienced and an improver?
It looks to me like someone who is a dressmaker with an apprentice and a couple of improvers doing the basic work.
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My dad left school on his thirteenth birthday in 1920. He started work for a local builder and signed his indentures in June 1920 as an apprentice carpenter and joiner. However due to a lack of work he was laid off in November 1924 and his indentures cancelled. He then worked as an improver in a range of jobs, firstly in a Joiners shop, then as a carpenter for a local builder, and then working in Bristol on housing schemes as a carpenter until he started on his own account as a carpenter and decorator around 1929. By this time he had some 9 years experience in the trade, so he was "improving" all the time. He took no formal trade exams, like City and Guilds, but did some "improving" of his technical knowledge at the Merchant Venturers College in Bristol for a period.
Rates of pay 1925 3p per hour, 1926 4p per hour and the full rate for a tradesman was 6p per hour and probably working 48 to 50 hours per week.
I realise this thread is about hairdressing but the situations are comparable. Maybe a long-winded way of explaining!
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Experienced and an improver?
Yes, of course.
An Improver, or a Journeyman (engineering trades) are the same thing. They are fully skilled, having done an apprenticeship, but lack the full experience of a Master. That experience will come in dribs and drabs as they take on different types of work and will not be acquired all on the first day. It would be fair to say that an Improver is closer to being a Master than being a brand new Appentice.
Regards
Chas
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A journeyman is someone who works for someone else, a master is someone who works for himself and often employs others.