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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Danuella on Thursday 19 November 20 17:48 GMT (UK)

Title: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Thursday 19 November 20 17:48 GMT (UK)
HI
Would anyone be able to help me with George William Gifford baptism in Rushall dob 15 Jul 1904.He was in the 1911 census as Stanley C Gifford (definitely the same person) with his adopted family, in the 1911 census it says he was born Rushall.
Can find no Giffords in Rushall in 1901 census but can find a Charles William Gifford at the Priory in the 1906 electoral register.
Many thanks
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 19 November 20 18:01 GMT (UK)
Is this the George William that you mean

GIFFORD, GEORGE  WILLIAM     Mothers maiden surname -TURNER 
GRO Reference: 1904  Sept Quarter in DEPWADE  Volume 04B  Page 218
 
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Thursday 19 November 20 18:03 GMT (UK)
Yes that's the one, I've been unable to track down his mmn, where Did you come across it pls? Thanks so much x
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Thursday 19 November 20 18:09 GMT (UK)
This is becoming a real puzzle. So George(Stanley) was adopted by 1 side of the family, then he married into the other side of the family and through him my husbands grandparents met and married :)
We've spoken to George's daughter and she has no knowledge at all as to why George was adopted(although he was George William he went by the name Stanley Charles all his life) although he is down as George in 1939.
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 19 November 20 18:13 GMT (UK)
GRO website, you just need to register  https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

If as you suspect his father may be Charles William - Possible marriage
Marriages Jun 1895   
Gifford    Charles William       
Turner    Florence Susan B M       
Newmarket    3b   1055

They had a daughter Elsie M c189 who is with Arthur & Maud Cook in 1901, described as a niece.  She was baptised Cowlinge, Suffolk. 19 Oct 1896 - parents Charles William & Florence Susan Blanche May - Charles occ Farmer abode Blomfields Fm
RG13
Piece number   1739
Folio   20
Page   14
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Thursday 19 November 20 18:26 GMT (UK)
Brilliant, thankyou! I've had a few years off doing the family tree(had children lol) & now starting to get some time to do it again and things have changed haha.
The more I look at that the more I think those are very likely to be his parents (wonder why they didn't have their kids with them?)
Am looking for Charles or Florence on the censuses and their being tricky!
X
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Thursday 19 November 20 18:39 GMT (UK)
I've just found Florence in cowlidge in 1901,charles is written down and crossed out with "in asylum" written down. In 1911 it says she has 5 childrnw still living but between 1901 and 1911 there are only 3 with her, so that would make sense for Elsie and George to be elsewhere. More digging needed me thinks x
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: suzard on Thursday 19 November 20 19:28 GMT (UK)
this may be of interest
Probate
Florence Susan Blanche May (otherwise Florence susan Blanche May Gifford) of Mill Rd Cowlinge near Newmarket Suffolk widow died 23 Oct 1954 probate London8 Jan to Hubert Gifford, grocer, and Muriel Foreman (wife of  Ernest Edward Foreman)
Effects £1550 19s
(Muriel is the daughter of Florence)

then there is this (which I don't have access to image)
WW1 Pension and record cards
Widows and dependents of
other ranks died - Giffen Gill S
dependants Alexander Charles Gifford
Florence S B M Gifford

1901 census lists Charles William Gifford crossed through Married no age given Farmer absent in asylum then Florence and 2 children (Alex and Muriel) Florence 's occupation is "Managing the farm" -so thats probably why the younger children are with relatives

Suz

WW1

Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 19 November 20 20:00 GMT (UK)
I can find a couple of entries for a Charles Gifford in the lunacy registers. One is Charles WIlliam being admitted to the Norfolk Asylum in 1904

He also appears to have been convicted of gbh in 1894
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Thursday 19 November 20 20:10 GMT (UK)
Suzard, that's brilliant, thankyou so much!
What does that ww1 record mean though as the wife is definitely right but is the pension through her son Alexander?
Oh wow! Mabel bagshaw, does it give any other details at all please?
I wouldn't know where to start on finding those records.
I can't find any trave of Charles William on any census at any time! (that's what I've been doing) frustrating x
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 19 November 20 20:23 GMT (UK)
The lunacy registers aren't much help beyond name,  dates of admission & discharge and institution

I was assuming this was your man on 1891

Charles W Gifford    24  single, farmer b Cowlinge

Address Bloomfields Farm

Class: RG12; Piece: 1437; Folio: 17; Page: 6;


1881 - Elms Farm, Cowlinge

Charles Gifford    54
Ellen Gifford    46
Ellen Jane Gifford    17
Charles W. Gifford    14  <<<<
Alexander M. Gifford    8
John Morley    38 - visitor, congregational Minister
Ellen Dearsley    32 - servant

Class: RG11; Piece: 1823; Folio: 56; Page: 13;
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: suzard on Thursday 19 November 20 20:29 GMT (UK)
I dont quite understand the WW1 record and as I cant get to the image I am wondering if it has been mistranscribed

Quarter sessions Suffolk Oct 1892
Charles William Gifford inflicting grevious bodily harm 1 calendar month hard labour

I can findCharles William Gifford on census up to 1891 if you would like them but none after that

Suz
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 19 November 20 22:11 GMT (UK)
Ok - think I;ve found him in 1901

There's a CWG, farmer b Cowlinge in the Suffolk County Lunatic Asylum. He's transcribed as aged 55, but there's a line across the age in the image so could well be 35. Listed as a lunatic

RG13; Piece: 1785; Folio: 139; Page: 27
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Friday 20 November 20 07:52 GMT (UK)
Suzard, I'm a member of findmypast but can't even find the record, it's annoying lol.
I've got him up to 1891 thanks hun.


Mabel wow you have! Poor bloke (and his family) wonder why he was in and out of asylums all the time?
X
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Friday 20 November 20 07:56 GMT (UK)
Frustratingly I live near the suffolk records office but they're moving all their archive stuff to a new location, hopefully in early 21,so won't be able to access the records till then :( x
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Friday 20 November 20 19:01 GMT (UK)
A bit more on that WWI record which may help. I haven;t got access to the image either, but

Private Alexander Charles Gifford
Service Number:    65671
Royal Northumberland Fusiliers

Other Ranks Died Gibson R-Gilbert J  [think this is the section of the index that is being transcribed]

Next of Kin:    
Name                                       Relation to Soldier
Alexander Charles Gifford    
Florence S.B.M. Gifford                 Mother

So I think the suggestion is that Florence is next of kin/a dependent and so recipient of the pension

The challenge is I can;t find a WWI death of Alexander Gifford

Added: and the medal rolls list him as still serving
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 20 November 20 19:32 GMT (UK)
Florence S. B. M Gifford
Residence Year:   1945
Street Address:   Madingley Road 6
Residence Place:   Cambridgeshire
2 other females same address different surnames
She also at that address 1935/1939 name  Florence Susan Gifford
Cambridgeshire, England, Electoral Registers, Burgess Rolls and Poll Books, 1722-1966

You can find her on 1939 Register  bn1873 living Cambridge

Edit to add this looks  to be her baptism

Florence Susan Blanche May Turner
Baptism 24 May 1874   Westley Waterless, Cambridge
Father:   Robert Turner Mother:   Salome

She’s on 1881/1891 census as Flora Turner bn c1874 Westley

1881 RG11; Piece: 1674; Folio: 15; Page: 23
1891 RG12; Piece: 1292; Folio: 23; Page: 17


Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Nic. on Friday 20 November 20 20:15 GMT (UK)
On 15/9/1891 in Bury & Norwich post there is a report of animal cruelty Charles Gifford of Cowlinge reported by RSPCA.

Then 29/10/1892 in Bury & Norwich Post a case of GBH against a bailiff. He is called hot tempered.

There are further newspaper reports about Charles William Gifford of Priory Farm, Rushall, threatening James William Reeder a horseman, Charles fired 4 times into the air.  Threatened James Reeder and locked the gate so he couldn’t remove his horses.

Charles Gifford was bound £100 with 2 £5 sureties and to keep the peace for 6 months

This is in
Norwich Mercury 28/10/1905
Eastern Daily 26/10/1905
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Saturday 21 November 20 15:39 GMT (UK)
Sorry haven't been on today, been a busy one.
Wow, so much info there. Thankyou so much for all your time and info, will get digging some more.
X
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 22 November 20 15:37 GMT (UK)
I presume this is the same person, service number is the same.  If as it says he was still serving after 1920 then his service records will still be with the MOD

Copied from transcript -
Alexander Charles Gifford
Service number   65671
Rank   Private
Battalion   1/5th
Cause of discharge   Still serving July 1920
Notes   'B' Coy,1/5th Bn; MIA 10/4/18; Re-enlisted & renumbered 4256987
Source   
EL;MIC;MR
Northumberland Fusiliers
Title: Re: GIFFORD baptism 1904 RUSHALL
Post by: Danuella on Sunday 22 November 20 16:29 GMT (UK)
Rosie, thankyou so much that's brilliant! Have been rooting about but struggled to find that record, thanks so much x