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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Danuella on Thursday 19 November 20 17:48 GMT (UK)
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HI
Would anyone be able to help me with George William Gifford baptism in Rushall dob 15 Jul 1904.He was in the 1911 census as Stanley C Gifford (definitely the same person) with his adopted family, in the 1911 census it says he was born Rushall.
Can find no Giffords in Rushall in 1901 census but can find a Charles William Gifford at the Priory in the 1906 electoral register.
Many thanks
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Is this the George William that you mean
GIFFORD, GEORGE WILLIAM Mothers maiden surname -TURNER
GRO Reference: 1904 Sept Quarter in DEPWADE Volume 04B Page 218
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Yes that's the one, I've been unable to track down his mmn, where Did you come across it pls? Thanks so much x
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This is becoming a real puzzle. So George(Stanley) was adopted by 1 side of the family, then he married into the other side of the family and through him my husbands grandparents met and married :)
We've spoken to George's daughter and she has no knowledge at all as to why George was adopted(although he was George William he went by the name Stanley Charles all his life) although he is down as George in 1939.
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GRO website, you just need to register https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
If as you suspect his father may be Charles William - Possible marriage
Marriages Jun 1895
Gifford Charles William
Turner Florence Susan B M
Newmarket 3b 1055
They had a daughter Elsie M c189 who is with Arthur & Maud Cook in 1901, described as a niece. She was baptised Cowlinge, Suffolk. 19 Oct 1896 - parents Charles William & Florence Susan Blanche May - Charles occ Farmer abode Blomfields Fm
RG13
Piece number 1739
Folio 20
Page 14
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Brilliant, thankyou! I've had a few years off doing the family tree(had children lol) & now starting to get some time to do it again and things have changed haha.
The more I look at that the more I think those are very likely to be his parents (wonder why they didn't have their kids with them?)
Am looking for Charles or Florence on the censuses and their being tricky!
X
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I've just found Florence in cowlidge in 1901,charles is written down and crossed out with "in asylum" written down. In 1911 it says she has 5 childrnw still living but between 1901 and 1911 there are only 3 with her, so that would make sense for Elsie and George to be elsewhere. More digging needed me thinks x
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this may be of interest
Probate
Florence Susan Blanche May (otherwise Florence susan Blanche May Gifford) of Mill Rd Cowlinge near Newmarket Suffolk widow died 23 Oct 1954 probate London8 Jan to Hubert Gifford, grocer, and Muriel Foreman (wife of Ernest Edward Foreman)
Effects £1550 19s
(Muriel is the daughter of Florence)
then there is this (which I don't have access to image)
WW1 Pension and record cards
Widows and dependents of
other ranks died - Giffen Gill S
dependants Alexander Charles Gifford
Florence S B M Gifford
1901 census lists Charles William Gifford crossed through Married no age given Farmer absent in asylum then Florence and 2 children (Alex and Muriel) Florence 's occupation is "Managing the farm" -so thats probably why the younger children are with relatives
Suz
WW1
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I can find a couple of entries for a Charles Gifford in the lunacy registers. One is Charles WIlliam being admitted to the Norfolk Asylum in 1904
He also appears to have been convicted of gbh in 1894
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Suzard, that's brilliant, thankyou so much!
What does that ww1 record mean though as the wife is definitely right but is the pension through her son Alexander?
Oh wow! Mabel bagshaw, does it give any other details at all please?
I wouldn't know where to start on finding those records.
I can't find any trave of Charles William on any census at any time! (that's what I've been doing) frustrating x
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The lunacy registers aren't much help beyond name, dates of admission & discharge and institution
I was assuming this was your man on 1891
Charles W Gifford 24 single, farmer b Cowlinge
Address Bloomfields Farm
Class: RG12; Piece: 1437; Folio: 17; Page: 6;
1881 - Elms Farm, Cowlinge
Charles Gifford 54
Ellen Gifford 46
Ellen Jane Gifford 17
Charles W. Gifford 14 <<<<
Alexander M. Gifford 8
John Morley 38 - visitor, congregational Minister
Ellen Dearsley 32 - servant
Class: RG11; Piece: 1823; Folio: 56; Page: 13;
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I dont quite understand the WW1 record and as I cant get to the image I am wondering if it has been mistranscribed
Quarter sessions Suffolk Oct 1892
Charles William Gifford inflicting grevious bodily harm 1 calendar month hard labour
I can findCharles William Gifford on census up to 1891 if you would like them but none after that
Suz
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Ok - think I;ve found him in 1901
There's a CWG, farmer b Cowlinge in the Suffolk County Lunatic Asylum. He's transcribed as aged 55, but there's a line across the age in the image so could well be 35. Listed as a lunatic
RG13; Piece: 1785; Folio: 139; Page: 27
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Suzard, I'm a member of findmypast but can't even find the record, it's annoying lol.
I've got him up to 1891 thanks hun.
Mabel wow you have! Poor bloke (and his family) wonder why he was in and out of asylums all the time?
X
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Frustratingly I live near the suffolk records office but they're moving all their archive stuff to a new location, hopefully in early 21,so won't be able to access the records till then :( x
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A bit more on that WWI record which may help. I haven;t got access to the image either, but
Private Alexander Charles Gifford
Service Number: 65671
Royal Northumberland Fusiliers
Other Ranks Died Gibson R-Gilbert J [think this is the section of the index that is being transcribed]
Next of Kin:
Name Relation to Soldier
Alexander Charles Gifford
Florence S.B.M. Gifford Mother
So I think the suggestion is that Florence is next of kin/a dependent and so recipient of the pension
The challenge is I can;t find a WWI death of Alexander Gifford
Added: and the medal rolls list him as still serving
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Florence S. B. M Gifford
Residence Year: 1945
Street Address: Madingley Road 6
Residence Place: Cambridgeshire
2 other females same address different surnames
She also at that address 1935/1939 name Florence Susan Gifford
Cambridgeshire, England, Electoral Registers, Burgess Rolls and Poll Books, 1722-1966
You can find her on 1939 Register bn1873 living Cambridge
Edit to add this looks to be her baptism
Florence Susan Blanche May Turner
Baptism 24 May 1874 Westley Waterless, Cambridge
Father: Robert Turner Mother: Salome
She’s on 1881/1891 census as Flora Turner bn c1874 Westley
1881 RG11; Piece: 1674; Folio: 15; Page: 23
1891 RG12; Piece: 1292; Folio: 23; Page: 17
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On 15/9/1891 in Bury & Norwich post there is a report of animal cruelty Charles Gifford of Cowlinge reported by RSPCA.
Then 29/10/1892 in Bury & Norwich Post a case of GBH against a bailiff. He is called hot tempered.
There are further newspaper reports about Charles William Gifford of Priory Farm, Rushall, threatening James William Reeder a horseman, Charles fired 4 times into the air. Threatened James Reeder and locked the gate so he couldn’t remove his horses.
Charles Gifford was bound £100 with 2 £5 sureties and to keep the peace for 6 months
This is in
Norwich Mercury 28/10/1905
Eastern Daily 26/10/1905
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Sorry haven't been on today, been a busy one.
Wow, so much info there. Thankyou so much for all your time and info, will get digging some more.
X
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I presume this is the same person, service number is the same. If as it says he was still serving after 1920 then his service records will still be with the MOD
Copied from transcript -
Alexander Charles Gifford
Service number 65671
Rank Private
Battalion 1/5th
Cause of discharge Still serving July 1920
Notes 'B' Coy,1/5th Bn; MIA 10/4/18; Re-enlisted & renumbered 4256987
Source
EL;MIC;MR
Northumberland Fusiliers
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Rosie, thankyou so much that's brilliant! Have been rooting about but struggled to find that record, thanks so much x