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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: ericthepenguin1 on Saturday 21 November 20 13:00 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I hold a 1768 marriage bond, (dated 1/7/1768), for a Samuel Aston and a Marry Rosall. It was found On-Line at Lancashire Archives and states that Mary Rosall was a widow aged 34. They were married in the parish of Poulton-Le-Fylde, (on 2/7/1768).
I assume the name Rosall would have been her 1st husbands surname. I have tried finding the 1st marriage and all i can come up with, that looks a possible, is a Richard Rosall marrying a Mary Hudson in Garstang in 1753, (12 miles away), but I cannot find a burial record for him.
Can some kind person help me out?
Many thanks
Eric
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Eric -- Richard 'Rossall' and Mary Hudson may have married at Garstang but according to their marriage record on Lancs OPC Richard was from Bispham and Mary from Thistleton, Kirkham.
Hence there is a Fylde connection again. Having said that I can't find a burial at the moment for an adult Richard.
From Lancs OPC;
Marriage: 17 Jun 1753 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Richard Rossell - Bispham
Mary Hudson - Thistleton in the Parish of Kirkham
Married by Licence
Register: Marriages 1746 - 1754, Page 55
Source: LDS Film 1278942
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Marriage: 17 Jun 1753 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Richard Rossell - Bispham
Mary Hudson - Thistleton in the Parish of Kirkham
Married by Licence
Register: Marriages 1746 - 1754, Page 55
Source: LDS Film 1278942
Can't see a marriage licence for this couple in Lancs. Archives catalogue.
Possible child. Sarah, St. Michael, Kirkham baptism register, 23rd Feb. 1755, abode Thistleton.
There are several Richard Rossall wills in LANCAT.
1746-7 Richard Rossall of Roscarr in Poulton, yeoman, had a son and grandson, Richard Rossall.
Richard Rossall of Poulton, gent., will dated 1763, probate 1771.
1730 Richard Rossall of Bispham Bank, Bispham cum Warbrick, yeoman.
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Thanks guys.
I have found a baptism record for a Mary Hudson in Kirkham dated 4th February 1733 in the record set 'Lancashire, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812'
I had the date when the bond was signed wrong, it was the 7th January 1768, (see link)
https://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/CalmView/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=ARR%2f11%2f18528&pos=1
which would make Ann Hudson 34. So it appears she is the one I am looking for. I would prefer finding a burial record for her husband though, to make it as near 100% certain as it can be.
Regards
Eric
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sorry. ....would make MARY Hudson 34
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Just teaches me to look at the actual image of the parish records. The following link take you to whats on Anc, is that REALLY the surname "Hudson"???
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2478/images/4421040_00133?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=XZH1982&_phstart=successSource&pId=55740972
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Looks like Hudson to me and www.lan-opc.org.uk also have it as Hudson. They are living in Thistleton.
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I have to say it didn't look like Hudson to me actually -- it looked more like how the scribe wrote his very fancy capital 'L' s.
However it does look as though it is correct as Hudson because there is the following marriage preceding the baptism on Lancs OPC;
Marriage: 29 Dec 1730 St Michael, Kirkham, Lancashire, England
William Hudson - Thisleton
Mary Wilkinson - Eccleston
Register: Marriages 1712 - 1731, Entry 449
Source: LDS Film 1502433
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Just teaches me to look at the actual image of the parish records. The following link take you to whats on Anc, is that REALLY the surname "Hudson"???
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2478/images/4421040_00133?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=XZH1982&_phstart=successSource&pId=55740972
I don't have a sub so I can't look at it. However, browsing Kirkham transcriptions on LANOPC last night, I wondered if Hodson and Hudson were the same.
As a marriage licence added an extra cost to a wedding, either they had money to spare or they didn't want banns called for some reason. Any indications that they weren't C. of E.? Catholic registers in all places where they might have married or had babies baptised began too late. There were unofficial burial grounds belonging to religious minorities.
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Thanks for the help.
Maiden Stone - Mary's 2nd marriage was at St James & St Pauls, Marton which is an Anglican church in Cheshire.
Regards
Eric
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Just teaches me to look at the actual image of the parish records. The following link take you to whats on Anc, is that REALLY the surname "Hudson"???
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2478/images/4421040_00133?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=XZH1982&_phstart=successSource&pId=55740972
I have looked at the image on Ancestry and to me it is not Hudson. The 1st letter I would guess is L or K (cf Leyland & Kirkham) and the letter before 'son' is definitely not 'd' - I would say by comparing it is e
sorry might have been looking at the wrong record - I was looking at a baptism but not sure what the link is for as I only have ancestry.co.uk not .com so cannot use it
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I know what you mean lancsann -- I thought the first letter was an L, as per my earlier message -- in the same fancy script as other 'L' s on that page. I also thought the following letters looked like 'ou' -- but the father was William and there is a William Hudson marrying in 1730 from that location.
Eric -- the second marriage of Mary you found at Lancs Archives -- are you sure it was at Marton in Cheshire? Why would it be at Lancs Archives? I must confess I haven't looked - but there is a Marton on the Fylde in Lancashire.
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The marriage of Samuel & Mary states both were of the parish of Poulton (le Fylde) as does the marriage bond.
Incidentally they both signed the register which seems to indicate they were educated people
There is a Marton in Blackpool which at that time came under the parish of St Chad's Poulton, the current Marton parish church not being built until 1804 - St Chad's still owns the gift of the living
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Thanks Lancsann and Pennines
Yes they were both well educated. Samuel was an Excise man and his wife was a school mistress. I went down to the NA in London and looked at some payroll records for Exciseman of the time but found diddlysquat for Samuel......this ancestry game can be right frustrating at times!!!
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It's a coincidence about the 'educated' aspect.
There is a Rossall school in Fleetwood which is on the Fylde Coast, hence not that far away from your ancestors -- it was named, presumably after Rossall Beach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossall_School
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Rossall school was founded when Sir Peter Hesketh Fleetwood leased his ancestral home of Rossall Hall to the school in 1844 mainly for the sons of clergymen. The area in the hundred of Amounderness had a area called Rossall before 1066. I think it would have been under the parish of Bispham.
Quite a long way from Thistleton. Not technically the Fylde coast which is to the south of Blackpool whereas Rossall is to the north
The parish for St Chads would have covered quite a large area so Mary could have come from as far away as Marton or Elswick.
Probably this does not help your quest but is just a bit of background to the area
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Funnily enough - when I saw this surname in the query - I thought of Rossall school, as I had an aunt who lived in Fleetwood and when we visited, the bus always went past that school. (That's how we travelled 'back in the day'.)
It made me think that the 'Rosall' family may have originated from that area way, way back and got that surname when they moved to a different 'settlement' - in those days before surnames existed. This would differentiate them from people in their new settlement with the same christian name.
I am so sorry, I am deviating from Eric's query here - although this background of the surname may be of interest to him.
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Rossall school has some lovely buildings - extended now of course from the original. Been up there several times in the past when my sons played rugby against them. You still go past it on the way to Fleetwood.
You could be right about the origin of the name Rossall. Agree we are not helping Eric's main query but background info is always interesting
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Maiden Stone - Mary's 2nd marriage was at St James & St Pauls, Marton which is an Anglican church in Cheshire.
Every marriage at that time except those of Jews or Quakers had to take place in an Anglican church. It was the law.
Mary's first marriage may have happened before Hardwicke's Marriage Act 1754.
Cheshire refers to the diocese which had jurisdiction over Lancashire parishes. Chester Diocese covered a large area of north-west England + a bit of Wales. It stretched from Bangor in the south to Copeland, Cumberland and Richmond, Yorkshire, in the north.
Samuel and Mary's wedding was recorded in the marriage register of St. Chad, Poulton-le-
Fylde, the mother church of St. Paul's, Marton.
Information about St. Paul, Marton from Lancashire Online Parish Clerk's website:
" The Church of St. Paul, Marton
Marriages at St. Paul in the Parish of Marton
Marriages prior to 1838 for residents of Marton were recorded in the Register of the mother
church, St. Chad's in the parish of Poulton-le-Fylde."
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Marton/stpaul/index.html
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Marton/index.html
Garstang was an extensive parish. There is a map on the parish pages of LANOPC. Click on it to enlarge. www.lan-opc.org.uk/Garstang/index.html
Added. Are you sure about St. James? No St. James in Marton or Poulton.
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Hi
I got the info from this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_James%27_and_St_Paul%27s_Church,_Marton
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Wrong church in the wrong Marton in the wrong county.
If you go to the links for Marton in my reply #18 they will take you to the right place. Select "Registers" and then "Marriages" from the menu on the left. Use Surname Index to find Mary Rossall's marriage. Lancashire Online Parish Clerk's website also has Ancestor Search pages (under "Search" in menu) which can be used to quickly find a named person or people with the same surname in a parish or a locality or anywhere in the county. It has an extra option for "others" such as marriage witnesses or godparents (latter Catholic). Some parish pages have information about the parish and locality and a few have extra sources of information. Plus photos of churches + towns + villages. LANOPC is a volunteer site. You can't research Lanky ancestors without LANOPC.
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If Richard Rossall was buried in Bispham where both the marriage in Garstang and his marriage bond say he lived and if he died between 1853 and 1868, those burial records appear to be missing. I would have expected to find a will as he is described as a yeoman but maybe he died before getting round to making one. There are a couple of wills of someone who may be his father in the Lancashire archives.
I would assume he had money as the marriage bond would cost him £200 if he failed to go through with the marriage.
As Maiden Stone says the marriage of Samuel and Mary was recorded in the registers of both St Chad's and St Paul's Marton
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Hi Lancsann
I found them at Dusty Docs, 1813 - 1871, that's if i have the right church, (St Hallows in the Parish Of Bispham). There are 4 Rossalls buried there but no Richard Rossall. I guess until we identify a suitable death we cannot assume it was Mary Hudson as being his wife, mores the pity.
Regards
Eric
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The church (All Hallows) Records on dusty docs. Did you find any burials at all between the years I stated as lan-opc has these years missing from the years you quote.
I assume both of us typed 1800’s rather than 1700’s!
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Hi
Please see link below
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bispham/allhallows/index.html
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my apologies - I was looking at the wrong century - I am easily confused, blame it on virtually 8 months of lockdown
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William Rossall, buried 3rd November 1767, Yeoman, Abode Warbeck. All Hallows Bispham.
A Richard Rossall, baptised 1724/25, All Hallows Bispham. Father: William Rossall, Husbandman, abode Warbeck.
If Richard Rossall is buried at All Hallows, it might be in a Family Plot or near Family Plot, to His Father William(?)
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co-incidence
Have you got these Eric - not sure which line you are actually following
Baptism: 19 May 1769 St Chad, Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire, England
Mary Aston - Daughter of Samuel Aston
Occupation: Excise Officer
Register: Baptisms 1759 - 1798, Page 27, Entry 6
Source: LDS Film 1517688
Baptism: 24 Apr 1772 St Chad, Poulton le Fylde, Lancashire, England
Sarah Rossall Aston - Daughter of Mr Samuel Aston
Abode: Poolton
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Interesting that Sarah had the middle name Rossall.
Also John baptised 29th Oct. 1773.
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Thanks.
Yes Samuel Aston is my Great x 5 Grandfather. It made me smile when i found out is he was an Excise man as I have just retired from her Majesty's Revenue and Customs!!
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What a coincidence Eric -- clearly it's in the genes! ----Also, my own son works for HMRC!!
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What a coincidence. It must make you feel a special connection and want to know even more about him.
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Hi
Yes it does.
I did find his name in a court case where a £2 or £20 promissary note had been forged. If memory serves he knew the signature of the person who's signature it was supposed to be and therefore had to confirm to the court it wasn't their signature on the note. The perputarors were found gulity and hung!!! There was some tough justice in them days.
Looking at the baptisms of his children in Poulton parish register he was the only person around about the 1740s who was, as the father, called not only by his christian and surname but had the title 'Mr' infront. I guess he must have been very well respcted in the area.
Regards
Eric