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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: chalkeydave on Sunday 22 November 20 16:22 GMT (UK)
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Good Afternoon one and all,
My wife’s uncle was killed in WW2 .
We have a lot of information about his war record and death in Japan.
We do not have any details of possible marriage,children etc.
His name was Albert Smith b 1908.
Where can I start to look.
Many thanks for taking the time to read this.
Dave
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Did he leave a will. You can search Soldiers wills if you know his year of death.
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Have you looked for his entry on the CWGC find war dead? It usually gives a next of kin if known.
If you could give us a little more information on Albert e.g. where he was born, regiment he served with, date of death then perhaps someone on here could help you further.
Dorrie
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With a surname like Smith you would need to give more info:
Where was he born?
Do you have his full birthdate as that can be used to trace him on the 1939 register which may show a wife etc
Is this him?
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2221558/ALBERT%20SMITH/
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Yes,this was Albert.
So many Smiths on 1939 register from Nottingham to be sure
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If his age is accurate on the CWGC website then he would have been born in either 1906 or 1907 depending on when his birthday fell.
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If he is plain Albert with no other names born in Nottingham, then one of the below could be his birth registration
SMITH, ALBERT FREEMAN
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 360
SMITH, ALBERT ELNOR
GRO Reference: 1906 J Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 374
SMITH, ALBERT WARING
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 442
There are no plain Albert's in 1907.
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On the CWGC Debt of Honour Register,it states he died on 18th May 1944 aged 37.
If it helps his mothers maiden name was Wiley.
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March qtr 1908 Albert Smith mmn Wiley Nottingham 7b 450
EDIT
March qtr registrations can sometimes indicate births late in the previous year (eg) Nov/Dec
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In that case this is his birth registration
SMITH, ALBERT WILEY
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 450
This is probably his parents marriage
Marriages Jun 1906
Smith George Nottingham 7b 812
Wiley Alice Lyles Nottingham 7b 812
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In the 1911 living here 16 Aston Terrace Hyson Green Nottingham with his parents George and Alice and three siblings Edith, Hilda and Frank.
There is a 10 year gap between Hilda and Albert, George is older than Alice so she may have been his second wife.
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You really need to establish his full birthdate. If you check the 1939 register there are no plain Albert Smith’s in Notts with a late 1907 or early 1908 birthdate
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The 1901 census shows Edith and Hilda with two older siblings parents George and Louisa. Living at
4, Wilfred Terrace, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire
Registration district Nottingham
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 3183
Folio 157
Page 33
SMITH, FLORRIE YATES
GRO Reference: 1894 D Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 367
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You have to bear in mind that Albert may not be on the 1939 if he had joined the services. Do you have his service record from the government? If so it should have his date of birth on it.
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Thank you all for your input.
Unfortunately it doesn’t get me any nearer to my quest.
Think I will send off for birth certificate to get his exact dob.
Many thanks again
Dave
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Which of Albert's siblings was your wife's father?
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Walter Arthur Smith, born 1916
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There is a Japanese index card for an Albert Smith Sherwood Foresters 765415
His mother and nok given as Alice Smith, 33 Sherbourne Road, Aspley Estate, Nottingham.
Dob 1907.2.10
Cathy
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A piece in the Nottingham Evening Post 27th Jan 1945 (British newspaper archives or Findmypast) has a photo of Albert Smith of the above address as having died in a Japanese POW camp May 18th 1944.
Cathy
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If his mother was given as next of kin then that would suggest that Albert didn't marry. There is no trace of Albert on the 1939 Register using the dates given.
As I said earlier he was probably already in the army by the time the 1939 Register was compiled.
Ah, correction, there does appear to be an Alfred with that birth date in the 1939 living in Cheshire. The right Albert or one who happens to have the same date of birth?
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Is birthdate 10.2.1907 or 2.10.1907? If 2/10 I would have expected the birth to be in the Dec qtr 1907.
Alberts birth was registered March 1908 which I would associate with a very late November or a December 1907 birth
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This is what I said in Reply#5
If his age is accurate on the CWGC website then he would have been born in either 1906 or 1907 depending on when his birthday fell.
Dave then informed us that his mother's maiden name was Wiley and I therefore came up with the MQ 1908 birth.
So is Albert's birth date the 10th February 1908?
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Just checked again , dob written 1907.2.10 so could be either 2nd Oct or10th Feb I suppose.
Cathy
Added.. on the POW card there is no name in the box for Father, just a line through .Alice was down as Mrs so possibly widowed .
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The CWGC record that Carole found stated that Albert had died on 18th May 1944 aged 37. So if he had his birthday in February and was therefore 37, this gives a birth year of 1907.
If the 1908 birth record is correct as Dave said the mother's maiden name was Wiley, then the age recorded at death is incorrect.
I suppose that would depend on what the army had down as his date of birth.
Dave - what army records do you have for Albert?
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Unfortunately I have no information on Albert at all,except CWGC.
I will get a birth certificate to confirm D.O.B and perhaps you will allow me to return to you,
and hopefully put it all to bed.
But thank you all once again,you really are an amazing bunch of people.
Dave
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You could consider getting Albert's service record from the Government. It does cost money though, £30 last time I looked and takes a while to come through.
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records
You have this information which will assist in obtaining the records
Service Number: 765415
Regiment & Unit/Ship
Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment)
1/5th Bn.
Have a look at the website and see whether you wish to consider getting Albert's service record.
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Depending on when he joined the army maybe he lied to make himself old enough - obviously if he only joined up for the war he wouldn't have needed to lie - but had he joined the regular army in the 1920s adding an extra year wouldn't have been unheard of
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Albert Smith - 765415
Birth place Hyson Green
Attestation 5 November 1925
Age 18 years 9 months
Enlisted for 4 years
Discharged 3 February 1926 - Nottingham
Re enlisted with North Staffs Regiment
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Oh my word,
You have opened up another can of worms.
Can I find out why he was discharged?
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I think he was initially in the Territorials, he would have been discharged as he transferred to North Staffs.
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If he enlisted so long before WW2 it’s very likely he may not be on the 1939 register so you may be wasting your money buying his birth cert
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Hi All, I haven't done any serious research for a few years now, but still browse through RC.
One thing that troubles me about the correct birth cert. is that it hinged on Dave's claim that mothers MN is Wiley. So, how did Dave arrive at that conclusion and, is it right?
If I am talking rubbish, which is not uncommon, then please ignore me ::)
Colin
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You are not talking rubbish Colin. Reply 7 refers re mmn. Albert is a sibling of the ancestor Dave is researching hence knowing mmn was Wiley. He refers to him as his wife’s uncle in his opening post
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You are not talking rubbish Colin. Reply 7 refers re mmn. Albert is a sibling of the ancestor Dave is researching hence knowing mmn was Wiley. He refers to him as his wife’s uncle in his opening post
Thanks for that :)
With such a common surname I would suggest that confirming the MMN is the way forward.
Colin
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Good Morning,
Further to previous notes,a marriage certificate has appeared in a relatives box of paperwork.
The certificate shows Albert Smith marrying Hilda Eatherington in October 1935.
I have found two children Donald A ( b1936)and Brenda H ( b1938 )
But what I can’t find is a reference to them in 1939 Register.
Your help as always would be much appreciated
Dave
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If the two children are still alive then their entries on 1939 Register will be redacted.
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How old was Hilda when she married and who was her father?
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Hilda was 21 and her fathers name was Henry Vincent Eatherington
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Hilda's birth record perhaps?
EATHERINGTON, HILDA LEA
GRO Reference: 1914 D Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 592
There is a Hilda in the 1939 Register living in Nottingham with two closed records which are probably the two children that were found. Her birth date is consistent with the above registration.
Looks like she remarried after Albert died
Marriages Mar 1947
Handley Herbert Smith Nottingham 3c 832
Smith Hilda Handley Nottingham 3c 832
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This looks like her parents marriage
Marriages Sep 1905
EATHERINGTON Harry Nottingham 7b 592
EATHERINGTON Henry Vincent Nottingham 7b 592
Lea Ada Nottingham 7b 592
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Thank Girl Guide.
But I’m confused,where does Handley fit in ?
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It doesn't fit in from the point of view of Albert. I was just indicating that Hilda remarried to Herbert Handley after Albert died.
If you look at the 1939 Register you will see that she has two surnames mentioned, Smith and Handley. This indicates that a woman has married, either for the first time or has had several marriages.
The 1939 Register was updated by the NHS until some time in the 1990s I think.
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She was a spinster when she married Albert,so I assume the records get updated to include later marriages.
Thank you again.
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She was a spinster when she married Albert,so I assume the records get updated to include later marriages.
Thank you again.
Strictly speaking, the records were changed whenever somebody's name changed.
Not just marriage :D
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There is a photo of Lance Corporal Smith's gravestone on findagrave :
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/15217939/albert-smith
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Thank you Enumerated, I have that photo,but thank you for taking the time to inform me