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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: roycymru on Sunday 22 November 20 18:40 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Hoping someone with better skills than me can help. I am trying to find
John Rees 1812, Llanelly
Margaret Rees (nee Samuel) 1812, Llanelly
Margaret Rees 1833, Llanelly
Mary Rees 1834, Llanelly
John Rees 1837, Llanelly
Elizabeth Rees 1840, Llannon
David Rees 1842, Llannon
William Rees 1844, Llannon
Henry Rees 1846, Llannon
Edward Rees 1849, Llannon
In the 1861 census. I have had no luck. In 1841 and 1851 the family were living at Blaenhiraeth a farm of 150 acres in Llannon. They are not there in 1861, an Alexander Boyd and family are there.
I think I have found John and Margaret again in 1871 with a daughter Catherine Rees born 1854 at Tyrheol, a farm of 60 acres in Hengoed Hamlet, Llanelly. John and Margaret are of the right age and the GRO has a Catherine Rees born 1854 with mother’s maiden name Samuel, which fits.
It just seems very strange I can’t find any of them in 1861.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Hi Roy
I too have searched for and failed to find the family in 1861. John Rees was my great great grandfather, and his daughter Elizabeth was my great grandmother. My suspicion is that the census records may have been lost, and the family remains resolutely untraceable.
John died on 11th June 1872. I have this note in my records about about his demise; have you seen it:-
"The Cardigan Reporter and Advertiser for Pembrokeshire and South Wales, printed and published by Martha W Williams at her General Printers Office, Solva, printed this item in their edition of Saturday 15th June 1872:-
'Melancholy death. Mr John Rees, farmer Ty'nyrheol, near Llanelly, left his daughter's house, the 'Farmer's Arms', on Tuesday night last for home, in a market cart. When the horse and vehicle arrived at Ty'nyrheol Mr Rees was found dead, with his head hanging between the side of the vehicle and the wheel.'"
His death certificate confirms this date and gives his age as 62. An inquest was held on 13th June 1872 and was conducted by J Rowlands, coroner for Three Commotts. He was buried in Adulam graveyard, together with his wife and three of his sons, David, Henry and Jonathon. His age was given as 61 not 62 as in the coroner's report.
Cheers
Richard
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Thank you for this information, a very sad and tragic sad, though I don’t know if you are aware that his driving skills were not that great in general, as there is a previously reported accident involving him in 1871
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4353512/4353515/18/Tyrheol%20AND%20Rees
“SKRious ACICTI)ENT.-On Sunday last, a very serious accideDt occured to Mr John Rees, Tyrheol Farm, near Felinfoel, Llanelly. It appears he was driving his family as usual to chapel, on Sunday evening, in a car, when en a sharp turning of the road, the car was upset, and all of them were thrown out, but fortunateiy, all escaped comparatively uninjured except Mr Rees, who by the fall broke his thigh. He was at once removed to a neighbouring house and attended by a medical man, anc is now progressing as well as can be expected under the circumstances.”
Note: If you are a member of Ancestry the below will make more sense if you do a member search for roycymru and look at my tree. I you can shed any light on the below it would be of great interest.
My interest in John Rees is linked to the Samuels, namely Edward Samuel (1843-1911) who was the nephew of Margaret Samuel who married John Rees. Edward being the son of Margaret’s brother Simon Samuel (1807-1880) (who married Hannah Thomas (1813-1869)).
Edward Samuel (1843-1911) married an Elizabeth Griffiths, who was the granddaughter of Jonah Thomas (1781-1848) and Elizabeth Rees (1776-1851). If my research is correct, Jonah and Elizabeth were my 4th Great Grandparents. Their Daughter Mary Thomas (1819 - ?) and her husband Henry Griffith(s) (1819 - 1850?) being Elizabeth Griffith(s) parents.
I also have another interest in that Ancestry shows I am genetically related to one of the Tobias descendents (in Australia) of a Henry Rees (1811-1866) who married a Hannah Tomas (1811-1875). I have yet to establish who our common ancestor is but I think it s somehow linked to the above families.
I note in 1851 that Edward Samuel (1843-1911) and his parents were living in 222 Marine Street, Lanelly. Henry Rees and Hannah Rees (nee Thomas) and family were living in 224 Marine Street, Llanelly. Therefore the families must have known each other at least and I wonder if there was intermarriage between the Samuel/Rees /Thomas family.
Some have suggested that John Rees (1812-1872) was the brother of Henry Rees (1811-1866), though there doesn’t seem to be any proof of this. For now I have put this relationship into my family tree, though I don’t think it is correct.
The only other thing I know about Henry Rees is that he had an uncle called John Rees:
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3334289/3334292/9/
“Henry Rees, master mariner, was broughl up in custody under the following circum- s'ances. It appeared that the defendant w^s the nepheyv of the late Mr. John Rees, of Llanelly, the owner of a vessel, of which the defendant was, or rather had been, master. In consequence of some ditlerences relative to accounts, which were not ex- plained, Mrs. Rees, the lale owner's widow, paid off' Ihe de- fendant on the previous week, and appointed another master to tlie vessel. In the mean time, a quantity of tbe stores and pro- visions of the vessel were missed, and subsequently traced o the possession of the defendant consequent upon this, Mrs. Rees authorized the police to take tire defendant into cuslodv, on tti, charge of stealing the property, but she forbore appearing to press the charge against him, on condition that the property should be replaced on board the vessel, which was agreed.to on the part of the defendant, who was therefore discharged”
Finally if you are interested in the Samuels Howard Davies’s tree has comprehensive information on them https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/158303587/family/familyview?cfpid=392076318185&selnode=1
The Samuels were a family of Mariners with some indentured into the Merchant Navy as young as 12 yrs old.
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There is a little bit about his death here: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3497010/3497013/34/John%20rees%20AND%20Death
Do you know which of his daughters it was that was mentioned and who she was married to?
Plus do you have any more details from the gravestone? I am presuming Jonathon is a son who died young as I have not come across him before.
Do you have a tree on Ancestry I can see.
Please P.M. me if easier
Kind regards
Roy
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Hi Roy
Busy at the moment, but I hope to reply in a couple of days.
Cheers
Richard
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Hi Roy
Busy at the moment, but I hope to reply in a couple of days.
Cheers
Richard
Thanks. Look forward to it. Only other random thought is whether the family might have temporarily emigrated sometime in the intervening years and then returned
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Hi Roy
Haven't got much to report.
My records say that Adulam MIs show that Jonathon died 17th June 1869 at the age of 18. He's buried with Henry, mate of the Betsy of Llanelly, who died on 17th December 1866 at the age of 21, and Captain David Rees, who died on 16th May 1866, aged 25. I been to Adulam cemetery many times but don't think I have a photograph of the gravestone.
So Jonathon would just have missed the 1851 census. I don't have facilities to search where 10 year old Jonathon might be in 1861, although I can see that FindMyPast has two suggestions within 50 miles of Llannon.
Otherwise, it's a mystery about where the whole family was in 1861.
Sorry I can't be more help. Rees is an especially common surname in Carmarthenshire.
Cheers
Richard
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Thank you for this information, much appreciated. Do you records have any more details of the MIs for their mother and father? Can you remember where you got Adulam MIs from? I seem to remember at 1 point there was a CD of them?? Or can anyone else help on this?
Also do you have more information on the married daughter mentioned and where I might find her in the census
Kind regards
Roy
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This must be Jonathan’s death record
REES, JONATHAN age 18
GRO Reference: 1869 J Quarter in LLANELLY Volume 11A Page 393
And this his birth record, confirming his mother’s maiden surname as Samuel
REES, JONATHAN (SAMUEL)
GRO Reference: 1851 J Quarter in LLANELLY Volume 26 Page 701
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Hi Richard and Roy,
Thanks both for such an interesting Chat. I have just joined and this is my first post.
I found Jonathan Rees in 1861 with his married sister Margaret Bowen and older brother John at Llangynwyd, Glamorgan:
1861 Census. At 44 Grove Street Llangynwyd Higher, Llangynwyd Margam Glamorgan with brother-in-law Henry Bowen (31) Blacksmith, sister Margaret (28), their daughter Elizabeth (2) and single brother John Rees (23) Iron Puddler, Jonathan, scholar, aged 10.
Richard, can you confirm that John's daughter Elizabeth, born 1840, married master mariner Daniel Thomas and had children Elizabeth Margaret, Hannah Kate and Cornelius Rees Thomas?
Happy New Year to you both,
Howard
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Hi Howard
Yes, according to my records Elizabeth (Rees) was born on 26th April 1839 (not 1840). She married master mariner Daniel Thomas on 23rd May 1861 (I think it's the 23rd). Her children were Elizabeth Margaret (3rd March 1866 to 2nd June 1897), Hannah Catherine (Kate) 14th September 1870 to 14th October 1948 and Cornelius Rees 7th February 1872 to 21st March 1940.
Hannah Catherine was my grandmother. How are you connected to the family?
Cheers
Richard
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Hi Richard and Roy,
Thanks both for such an interesting Chat. I have just joined and this is my first post.
I found Jonathan Rees in 1861 with his married sister Margaret Bowen and older brother John at Llangynwyd, Glamorgan:
1861 Census. At 44 Grove Street Llangynwyd Higher, Llangynwyd Margam Glamorgan with brother-in-law Henry Bowen (31) Blacksmith, sister Margaret (28), their daughter Elizabeth (2) and single brother John Rees (23) Iron Puddler, Jonathan, scholar, aged 10.
Richard, can you confirm that John's daughter Elizabeth, born 1840, married master mariner Daniel Thomas and had children Elizabeth Margaret, Hannah Kate and Cornelius Rees Thomas?
Happy New Year to you both,
Howard
Sorry, hadn’t spotted your reply before. Great find in 1861. It all fits. In 1881 Margaret Bowen (Rees) was at the White Lion Inn, Llanelly (on her own, probably visiting), with her mother. In 1871, in Glamorgan a Hector Rees of Llanelly (1828) was a lodger was staying with Henry and Margaret Bowen. I don’t know where he fits in but I guess he is related to Margaret in some.
This is the 1881 entry
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8059/images/CMNRG11_5375_5378-0116?treeid=72019084&personid=222241521605&hintid=&queryId=53dbb04c5285e43e89c8aae0abe5b246&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bSL1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1075971
In 1891 her daughter Catherine Philpott (nee Rees) and family are living there
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/6897/images/CMNRG12_4496_4499-0030?pid=286602&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DbSL3%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26dbid%3D6897%26gsfn%3DJohn%26gsln%3DPhillpot%26cp%3D0%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Df%26mssng%3DCatherine%26mssns%3DRees%26mscng%3DThomas%26mscng1%3DDd%20H%26mscng2%3DElizabeth%26mscng3%3DDavid%26mscng4%3DJohn%26mscng5%3DElizabeth%26mscng6%3DMary%20Kate%26msbdy%3D1849%26msbpn__ftp%3Dllanelli,%20carmarthenshire,%20wales,%20united%20kingdom%26msbpn%3D1651522%26msrpn__ftp%3Dllanelli,%20carmarthenshire,%20wales,%20united%20kingdom%26msrpn%3D1651522%26ssrc%3Dpt_t72019084_p222243142098%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3Dzq3%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26h%3D286602%26indiv%3D1&ssrc=pt_t72019084_p222243142098&treeid=72019084&personid=222243142098&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bSL3&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Based on this I believe Margaret died 1881-1891 and the most likely match based on age at death is this one
REES, MARGARET 74
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in LLANELLY Volume 11A Page 504
The family seem to take over the running of the White Lion and on UKgenealogy there are images of gravestones (though not of the best quality) at Adulam which mention the White Lion and from which other children of John and Margaret Rees (nee Samuel) can be identified:
Son William was married to an Anne, interestingly in the 1871 census they were living at the White Lion, so it looks like William's mother Margaret took this over from them after William and Ann died. Ann's surname may be Jenkins as the census entry on the following page lists a David and Thomas Jenkins as brothers, but I can't find a marriage of a William Rees and an Anne Jenkins.
William and Anne's surname is wrongly transcribed as Roes on Ancestry.
Son Edward's gravestone is not so clear. He had a daughter Margaretta who dies young in 1871. Another daughter Elizabeth. Edward married a Hannah Samuel.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7618/images/CMNRG10_5468_5471-0093?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=c110942e88b22bae5b7c9e7886960cf0&usePUB=true&_phsrc=rPk6155&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=7123846
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7618/images/CMNRG10_5468_5471-0094?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=c110942e88b22bae5b7c9e7886960cf0&usePUB=true&_phsrc=rPk6155&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=7123846
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Hi Howard
Yes, according to my records Elizabeth (Rees) was born on 26th April 1839 (not 1840). She married master mariner Daniel Thomas on 23rd May 1861 (I think it's the 23rd). Her children were Elizabeth Margaret (3rd March 1866 to 2nd June 1897), Hannah Catherine (Kate) 14th September 1870 to 14th October 1948 and Cornelius Rees 7th February 1872 to 21st March 1940.
Hannah Catherine was my grandmother. How are you connected to the family?
Cheers
Richard
Not convinced on Elizabeth’s birth date (have you a source for this). My doubt is based on this GRO entry for her from Mar Qtr 1840
REES, ELIZABETH (mother’s maiden name SAMUEL)
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in LLANELLY UNION Volume 26 Page 546
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Hi
Do you have any dates or more info for Daniel Thomas as he doesn’t appear with Elizabeth in the census records. Thanks
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Hi Howard
Yes, according to my records Elizabeth (Rees) was born on 26th April 1839 (not 1840). She married master mariner Daniel Thomas on 23rd May 1861 (I think it's the 23rd). Her children were Elizabeth Margaret (3rd March 1866 to 2nd June 1897), Hannah Catherine (Kate) 14th September 1870 to 14th October 1948 and Cornelius Rees 7th February 1872 to 21st March 1940.
Hannah Catherine was my grandmother. How are you connected to the family?
Cheers
Richard
Not convinced on Elizabeth’s birth date (have you a source for this). My doubt is based on this GRO entry for her from Mar Qtr 1840
REES, ELIZABETH (mother’s maiden name SAMUEL)
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in LLANELLY UNION Volume 26 Page 546
Having looked further there is
REES, ELIZABETH (SAMUEL)
GRO Reference: 1839 J Quarter in LLANELLY Volume 26 Page 560
So whether the Elizabeth Rees born 1840 is a different Elizabeth, or Elizabeth Rees born 1839 died young and the next daughter was also called Elizabeth? You may know more?
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Hi Roy
I do have Elizabeth Rees's birth cert, and I'll send you some info tomorrow.
For Daniel Thomas in the 1861 census, search for him on a vessel called the 'Sardine' in Swansea docks. I'm speaking from memory as I'm not with my records.
Cheers
Richard
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Hi Roy
I do have Elizabeth Rees's birth cert, and I'll send you some info tomorrow.
For Daniel Thomas in the 1861 census, search for him on a vessel called the 'Sardine' in Swansea docks. I'm speaking from memory as I'm not with my records.
Cheers
Richard
Thanks, look forward to this.
You may know this already?
I think the below is Elizabeth in 1861, living with her Uncle and Aunt Cornelius Rees (1808) and Elizabeth Rees (1822, nee Rees).
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/8768/images/CMNRG9_4112_4115-0379?backurl=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.ancestry.co.uk%252Ffamily-tree%252Fperson%252Ftree%252F72019084%252Fperson%252F222241820864%252Ffacts%252Fcitation%252F742350155654%252Fedit%252Frecord&pid=13836737
(Note: another niece Ann Samuel age 16 was living with them in 1861)
(Note 2: This might also explain why Elizabeth Thomas, who married Daniel Thomas, named her son Cornelius.
I think this is the marriage of Cornelius in 1841
Dec Qtr
REES Cornelius Llanelly 26 795
There are several possible wives mentioned but the only Elizabeth mentioned is Elizabeth Rees.
Cornelius and Elizabeth don’t appear to have had any children.
Note 3: in 1881 Elizabeth Rees (Cornelius’s wife, widow, aunt) is living with Elizabeth (1840) also now a widow.
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Hi
Do you also have the actual marriage record for Elizabeth Rees and Daniel Thomas? If so, could you kindly transcribe the details?
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Hi Roy
Yes, I have the marriage certificate.
Adulam Chapel, in the district of Llanelly. 23rd May 1861 between Daniel Thomas, 27, bachelor, master mariner in the merchant service, Baily, Llanelly, and Elizabeth Rees, 22, spinster, Ystradfai, Llanelly. Daniel's father was William Thomas, deceased, farmer, and Elizabeth's was John Rees, Colliery Proprietor. Witnesses Cornelius Rees and David Thomas.
It's the 'colliery proprietor' that I find strange. He was missing from the 1861 census - could the two things be connected? He was a farmer before 1861 and a farmer in 1871.
Cheers
Richard
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Hi Roy
My memory was right about Daniel being on the Sardine. The reference is RG 9/4529, if you can access the 1861 census.
Cheers
Richard
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Hi Roy
Yes, I have the marriage certificate.
Adulam Chapel, in the district of Llanelly. 23rd May 1861 between Daniel Thomas, 27, bachelor, master mariner in the merchant service, Baily, Llanelly, and Elizabeth Rees, 22, spinster, Ystradfai, Llanelly. Daniel's father was William Thomas, deceased, farmer, and Elizabeth's was John Rees, Colliery Proprietor. Witnesses Cornelius Rees and David Thomas.
It's the 'colliery proprietor' that I find strange. He was missing from the 1861 census - could the two things be connected? He was a farmer before 1861 and a farmer in 1871.
Cheers
Richard
Thanks very much for this. I agree John Rees’s profession in the marriage entry is confusing as his disappearance from the 1861 census. Something unusual going on regarding the family in 1861 as his sons Jonathan (age 10) and John (23) are boarding with their sister Margaret in Glamorganshire and his daughter Elizabeth (21) is living with her uncle Cornelius. This leaves John (1811), Margaret (1812) and their other children Mary Rees (1834, who may have died after 1851, or married), David Rees (1841), William Rees (1844), Henry Rees (1846), Edward Rees (1849), and Catherine Rees (1854) missing from the 1861 census. Though David and Henry may well have been at sea, given their maritime association.
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Hi Roy
I think that Mary married David Williams, but I can't now find my evidence for that statement.
Catherine married John Philpott in 1873. In 1881 they were farming Coedcywbella, Llannon, a farm of 100 acres. But by 1891 John was a farmer but they were living at the White Lion Felinfoel, and by 1901 he was the innkeeper. He died in 1905, she in 1907.
Thee are several unfavourable mentions of John in the Llanelly Mercury in 1897, including that he was bankrupt. In the London Gazette of December 1897 he is described as 'formerly a farmer and publican, and now a publican'.
So might most of the Rees family upped and awayed to run a colliery?
Cheers
Richard
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Hi
Going back through this thread do you know which Daughter of the Farmer’s arms, Elizabeth’s father John was travelling from when he had his tragic accident?
Also, as discussed previously could you kindly provide a transcription of Elizabeth’s birth record.
With Elizabeth’s father being described as a colliery proprietor in her marriage to Daniel Thomas in 1861 I was concerned that this Elizabeth might not be the daughter of John Rees and Margaret Samuel, because you say in 1841, 1851 and 1871 he is described as a Farmer, not colliery proprietor. As previously discussed, for some reason John, his wife and some of his children are not in the 1861 census, so his profession in 1861 in unknown. However his wife’s Margaret’s brothers “the Samuel brothers{ were heavily involved in the Colliery industry so it could well be a possibility that he temporarily tried his hand in the colliery business, 20 years between 1851 and 1871 is a long time.
Elizabeth is with her uncle Cornelius in 1861 (described as Niece and living with him just before she got married). Searching back to 1851 for Elizabeth Rees’ with father John born Llanelly/Llannon around 1840 there is only 1 real candidate Elizabeth daughter of John and Margaret Samuel. There is another Elizabeth Rees with parents John and Hannah Rees born abt 1838 Llanelly, but she is with her parents in the 1861 census. So I think she is definitely the daughter of John Rees and Margaret Samuel.
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There is a will of John Rees, Farmer of Wayngrychydd, Llanelly. In the will he mentions his wife Elizabeth and children John, Mary, Hannah, Margaret, Cornelius, William, Daniel and Elizabeth. In 1841 an Elizabeth (70), Cornelius (30) and Daniel (25) are living at Gellylusged farm, Hengoed, Llanelly. It is reasonable to assume that Elizabeth, Cornelius and Daniel are those mentioned in the will.
Cornelius is the Cornelius of Ystradvai, uncle of Elizabeth Rees who we have already discussed and from this we have also already established her parents are John Rees and Margaret Samuel of Blaenhiraeth, later Tynyrheol. Therefore, this must be the John mentioned in the above will. Others have said instead that John son of John Rees of Wayngrychydd is John Rees (1791-1864) of Gellygaled, Hengoed. However, I don’t know what this assumption is based on, other than he is of the right age to be John and Elizabeth’s and lived in Hengoed parish, and the evidence already discussed suggests not.
A further attribution is that Elizabeth’s father John is in fact the son another of John Rees of Wayngrychydd’s children, William and therefore that his parents are William Rees and a Catherine James. I can see how this assumption might have arisen as in 1841 and 1851 William was living at Tynyrheol and John and Margaret Rees were living there in 1871. However, there is no indication Tynyrheol passed down the Rees family line as in 1861 as a Daniel Harris a Carter and William Isaac, a Shepherd’s boy were living there. Therefore, again the facts do not support this.
The Daniel Rees mentioned above I think is the Daniel Rees (of Eryos, Clyn) who married Grace Williams. He is of the right age in later censuses and his marriage record says his father was John Rees a Farmer.
Others, have attributed the other children of John Rees of Wayngrychydd to various their namesakes in census records, but I don’t know of what basis these attributions have been made.
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Hi
Going back through this thread do you know which Daughter of the Farmer’s arms, Elizabeth’s father John was travelling from when he had his tragic accident?
Also, as discussed previously could you kindly provide a transcription of Elizabeth’s birth record.
With Elizabeth’s father being described as a colliery proprietor in her marriage to Daniel Thomas in 1861 I was concerned that this Elizabeth might not be the daughter of John Rees and Margaret Samuel, because you say in 1841, 1851 and 1871 he is described as a Farmer, not colliery proprietor. As previously discussed, for some reason John, his wife and some of his children are not in the 1861 census, so his profession in 1861 in unknown. However his wife’s Margaret’s brothers “the Samuel brothers{ were heavily involved in the Colliery industry so it could well be a possibility that he temporarily tried his hand in the colliery business, 20 years between 1851 and 1871 is a long time.
Elizabeth is with her uncle Cornelius in 1861 (described as Niece and living with him just before she got married). Searching back to 1851 for Elizabeth Rees’ with father John born Llanelly/Llannon around 1840 there is only 1 real candidate Elizabeth daughter of John and Margaret Samuel. There is another Elizabeth Rees with parents John and Hannah Rees born abt 1838 Llanelly, but she is with her parents in the 1861 census. So I think she is definitely the daughter of John Rees and Margaret Samuel.
You are right about Mary marrying a David Williams (a blacksmith) as in 1871 they are living at the Farmers Arms, the residence that their her father was coming home from when he had his fatal accident, as mentioned earlier in this thread
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Trying to collate all of this into something more sensible to read (if you spot any obvious errors please let me know):
Starting at the beginning!
John Rees of Wayngrychydd wrote a will in 1829. In the will are mentioned his wife Elizabeth, sons William, John, David, Cornelius and Daniel and daughters Elizabeth, Hannah and Mary.
In 1841 his wife Elizabeth (age 70) and sons Cornelius (age 30) and Daniel (age 25) are living at Gellylysged
Cornelius then lives at Ystradvai and in 1861 his niece Elizabeth Rees born around 1840 is living with him.
In the 1851 census there are are only 2 Elizabeth Rees’ with father John, born Llanelly/Llannon. One is the daughter of John Rees and Margaret Samuel of Blaenhiraeth - Tynyrheol, the other the daughter of a John Rees and a Hannah Rees (maiden name unknown). The later Elizabeth can be discounted as she is still with her parents in 1861.
Elizabeth Rees marries Daniel Thomas in 1861 and they have children Elizabeth Margaret (1866), Hannah Katherine (Kate) (1870) and Cornelius Rees (1872). Niece Elizabeth Thomas (nee Rees) is buried with her uncle Cornelius at Adulam as is her daughter Hannah Catherine (listed as Cornelius’s grand niece).
John Rees and Margaret Samuel’s children were Margaret (1833), Mary (1834), John (1838), Elizabeth (1840), David (1841), William (1844), Henry (1846), Edward (1849), Jonathan (1851) and Catherine (1854).
It is documented that John Rees of Tynhyrheol died in a tragic accident on the way home from his daughter’s residence, Farmer’s Arms.
In 1871 John’s daughter Mary (1834) was living with her husband David Williams at the Farmer’s Arms together with their children John (1864) and Samuel (1866) (note Samuel appears on the second page of the census entry for Mary and David Williams).
David Williams and Mary Rees must die young as in 1881 their sons John and Samuel (listed as Nephews) are living with aunt Elizabeth Thomas (nee Rees). (Note: John and Samuel appear on the second page of the census entry for Elizabeth Thomas and her family in 1881).
Samuel is still living with his aunt in 1891 (as a boarder) and in 1901 is listed as a visitor.
Although Elizabeth Rees’s (1840 actually 1839) father is listed “discrepantly” as a colliery proprietor in her marriage record in 1861 (he is listed as a Farmer in 1841, 1851 and 1871), this interim change in profession must be correct or an error in the marriage record. I suspect the former, his wife Margaret Samuels extended family were involved in mining and several were Master Mariners. Therefore the lack of absence of Elizabeth’s father John, his wife and some of their children is probably explained by the fact they were “elsewhere” rather than missing from the census. The elsewhere could even include a temporary emigration as part of some new venture into mining.
Therefore I am confident at attributing the above John Rees and Cornelius Rees as sons of John of Wayngrychydd.
I am also confident at attributing Daniel Rees (1816) who married Grace Williams as the son of John of Wayngrychydd. He is living with his mother Elizabeth and brother Cornelius in 1841. His age in later censuses agrees with the 1841 entry, his father is listed as John Rees a Farmer and a witness is William Rees, presumably his brother.
As previously stated attributions of other children of John of Wayngrychydd in the census records I can neither confirm or refute as I have no evidence either way, apart from John Rees
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Hi Roy
Many thanks for all the work you've done on this. I'm going to be busy until the end of the month but look forward to digesting your posts.
Cheers
Cyfrifydd
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Hi Roy
Many thanks for all the work you've done on this. I'm going to be busy until the end of the month but look forward to digesting your posts.
Cheers
Cyfrifydd
No problem. I forgot to add Margaret Rees (1809-1872) who married David Samuel (1805-1873) can also be attributed as a daughter of John Rees of Wayngrychydd as their daughter Ann Samuel is living with her Uncle Cornelius in the 1851 and 1861 censuses
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Link to the Will of John Rees https://viewer.library.wales/702585#?c=&m=&s=&cv=3&manifest=https%3A%2F%2Fdamsssl.llgc.org.uk%2Fiiif%2F2.0%2F702585%2Fmanifest.json&xywh=-826%2C-137%2C3603%2C2727
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Hi
I have managed to find the obituary of Cornelius Rees https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3201842/3201844/5/
Although in Welsh if you cut and paste into Google translate it does a reasonable job of translating it. In this is mentioned another brother the Rev D. Rees of Braintree and Australia! From this we can attribute David Rees 1806 - 1885 (Victoria, Australia) as another brother. He married a Mary Eliza Curtis (1811-1849) on 24 Jun 1811 St George Hanover Square, London, England and after her death he emigrated with his children to Australia.
Another possible attribution as a brother of Cornelius is William. From Ancestry trees there seem to be 2 candidates; a William Rees (1798) a Farmer/Butcher of Soho, Hengoed who married an Elizabeth Morgan and a William Rees (1791) Farmer of Tynyrheol, Hengoed who married a Catherine James. Of these 2, I currently favour the later as there are some tenuous links with other family members. William of Tynyrheol had a son Hector Rees born around 1825-1828. From other trees Hector married an Anne Robert in 1849 and was a Farmer of Grogwynion(?) Llanddarog and is with his family in the 1851 and 1861 census. In 1871 he is not with them though Ann is listed as married and not a Widow. I think this is because Hector Rees (married) is the lodger, labourer of Llanelly living in Glamorgan with Henry Bowen and his wife Margaret Bowen (nee Rees). Margaret Rees being the daughter of John Rees Blaenhiraeth-Tynyrheol. That John Rees was Farming at Tynyrheol in 1871 and his potential brother William was farming it in 1841 and 1851 provides another tenous link. Arguing against this is that Tynyrheiol in 1861 was not occupied by Rees' and a Daniel Harris, a Carter and William Isaac, a Shepherd’s boy were living there, so there is no continual link in the Rees line. Also Hector was listed as a labourer in 1871 and Farmer in 1851 and 1861, though there is a note in a family tree to say that in August 1868 there was a sale of stock and crop at Grogwynion due to Hector selling up and moving to Llanelly.
This leaves Elizabeth, Hannah and Mary not definitely assigned in the census as children of John of Wayngrychydd, though others have made attributions, but I have no idea what these are based on. If anyone could shed any light on these I would be delighted to hear.
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Help from others
In Cornelius's obituary (1877), one sister, is stated as still alive "Mrs. Samuel, Bryngwynbach". The obvious candidate is Margaret Rees (1809) who married David Samuel (1805-1873?). However, I have her dying around 1872, with her last known address in 1871 as Llwun y farchweb and I can't obviously find her in the 1881 census? Can anyone help solve this conundrum?
Much appreciated
Roy
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William Rees of Soho was the son of John Rees and Elizabeth of Wayngrychydd/Gellylysged as he was in attendance at Elizabeth’s death
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Just when you think you have got things sorted!
I thought I had resolved that John Rees (1812-1872, Blaenhiraeth 1841, 1851, “missing’ 1861, Tynrheol 1871) was one of the sons of John Rees (1767) Wayngrychydd. However, this may not be the case. An alternative suggestion is that he is instead the son on William Rees (1791-1873) and his wife Catherine James of Tynrheol. This may also be correct!
It is not disputed that John Rees (1812) married Margaret Samuel and that their daughter Elizabeth Rees (1839) was living with her Uncle and Aunt Cornelius and Elizabeth Rees in 1861. However, it turns out Cornelius’s wife Elizabeth Rees (nee Rees) was the daughter of William Rees (1791) of Tynrheol. Therefore the niece Elizabeth Rees with them in 1861 could be a niece because John Rees (1812) is a brother of Cornelius or because he is a brother of Elizabeth!
Any thoughts on this are welcome!