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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: caroline_forster on Tuesday 08 December 20 11:40 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am researching my 4xG-Grandfather, Thomas Walker. Briefly this is what I have found / what I understand the chain of events to be:
1789 Thomas was born near Northallerton, Yorkshire.
1820 he stole some hay but avoided arrest.
1828 he stole some geese (it's a long story, he got on the wrong side of a magistrate and the two offences were put together).
14th April 1828 he was convicted at Northallerton* and transported for 14years.
6th May 1829 Thomas arrived in NSW on the Lord Melville.
1835 back in Yorkshire a petition was raised for his pardon.
1841 he was granted a pardon.
16th Jan 1843 he was granted a certificate of Freedom.
I am trying to trace what happened to Thomas after 1843. I understand that very few freed convicts managed to return to the UK.
On the UK 1851 census his wife is listed as "Widowed" but I know this could also be the notation she used if she knew her husband was not returning home.
If anybody could point me in the right direction of where I might find out more info about Thomas after 1843 it would be much appreciated.
*Northallerton sometimes referred to as York and sometimes wrongly stated as Northampton (eg on Cert of Freedom)
Many thanks,
Caroline
(Northumberland, England)
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Hi there,
I have NOT found any Pardon issued in 1841 or any other year for the Thomas WALKER who arrived per the Lord Melville voyage of 1829. I have found "P" as the abbreviation for a Ticket of Leave Passport issued in 1841.
Thomas WALKER - there were many chaps by that name in NSW in the 1840s. Some were former convicts, some were former garrison soldiers, some were born in the colony, some had paid their own fare to come to the colony ...
But here is what I have found in an armchair search since reading your post. It may be weeks before I have spare moments to strive to move much past the 1843 Certificate of Freedom. I am hoping there will be other RChatters who will be along soon to help your quest.
In the meantime, as background, I mention that NSW State Archives has partnership arrangements with several commercial family history websites, who have digitised some/many of the extant convicts records held by NSW State Archives.
The free to search convict index at NSW State Archives lists many chaps named Thomas WALKER.
I can see Thomas WALKER, who arrived per the Lord Melville 1829 , after a trial in a Quarter Sessions in York, North Riding …
a) being issued a Ticket of Leave in 1836, (#702 to remain in the Murray District
and then in 1843
b) Certificate of Freedom –( issued 16 Jan 1843, #081).
At that same online index is a Conditional Pardon issued 20 December 1848 for a different chap named Thomas Walker who arrived per the voyage of the Asia in 1828.
Some live links :
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/convicts-index There is background info, and a box for searching ….
https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/walker/thomas/122524
From the Convict Indents, the chap on the Lord Melville of 1829 was sentenced to 14 years, so the Certificate of Freedom issued in January 1843 is relevant, and I would not anticipate any need for any Conditional Pardon to have been issued.
The information on the CF (for those without immediate online access, and who may be interested in helping the quest) :
43/81 – 16 January 1843.
Prisioner No, 29/1088
Thomas WALKER, per Lord Melville (2), 1829,
Native Place – Northaington
Trade/Calling – Labour
Tried, York NR QSs 14 April 1828, 14 years, born 1789, ….
NO writing on reverse side of that BUTT.
Ancestry has an index with a subheading NSW Pardons 1834-1838
So there's :
651, Thomas WALKER, L. Melville 1829, York Q.S 14 April 1828, 14. This is NOT a Pardon. It is actually part of an index of convicts names, and the details in the single line entry I typed up actually is simply pointing to a Ticket of Leave for Thomas WALKER…
Ticket of Leave BUTT
36/702 19 April 1836
Prisoner’s No. 29/1088
SO THAT’S THE SAME CONVICT NUMBER as the Certificate of Freedom.
The ToL 36/702 concludes with the formal details that show that The Goulburn Bench (so the Police Magistrate in that Police District) recommended that Thomas WALKER, 29/1088 be allowed under the terms of that ToL to remain in the then Murray District.
:) The Lord Melville made several voyages transported convicts to NSW.
:) There was a General Muster in 1837 with much of the Administrative record being extant, digitised and available online via a commercial website. NSW State Archives years ago imaged these documents and those images are freely available for in person viewing at the Archives at Kingswood.
Interestedly, there’s in that 1837 General Muster, an entry listed for a Thomas WALKER, aged 56, who was noted as arriving per the Lord Melville in 1828. The remarks column shows he had a Ticket of leave and was in the Queanbeyan District. I am unsure if that is convict number 29/1088, but I suspect it is because :
:) Among the digitised images there’s ‘Queanbeyan Applications 1828-1857 …
Headings include No. of Ticket (I am sure that would be the number of the existing ToL which needed to be reviewed and a new one issued etc etc … ToL valid for 12 months etc)
Anyway, on that Queanbeyan Application list there’s two mentions for Walker Thomas.
One reads:
Walker Thomas
Alias
Cooper, Richard
The other one .... it has blanks in two columns and then Walker Thomas, L Melville, 1829 R Campbell, and in the column for April 1841 it has P. I believe “P” was an abbreviation for “Ticket of Leave Passport."
Can you please confirm if you have an actual Pardon document, and if so, what is it's unique number and actual date of issue.
JM
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Hi JM,
thank you so much for looking in to this.
I do not have a Pardon for Thomas Walker, I have misinterpreted the P notation in the record set with heading "NSW Pardons". It makes sense as you say that he received the Certificate of Freedom in 1843 and thus would not have received an earlier pardon. Many thanks for clearing that up. I will try and find time to source some of the other records you mention and need to get deciphering some others I have found.
I really doubt that Thomas made it back to Northallerton, England (to his wife and children) after 1843 but it would be great to find out anything that happened to him after that point.
Many thanks for your help
Caroline
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Hi
I was just wondering whether you have the names of his parents.
By the mid 1850's the completing of death certificates in Australia asked for a good deal of personal information about the deceased. This can be helpful identifying people.
It may be helpful to give everything you know, even the names of his siblings and his wife and children left behind.
Was his background and occupation entirely agricultural?
Sue
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Hi Sue,
I believe his parents names were George and Jane (nee Sherwood). George was a Quaker then baptised into the Church of England when his first child was born.
Thomas' wife was called Charlotte (nee Graham). She was born Charlotte Gregson and later went by Charlotte Gregson Graham. They married in 1819.
His daughter was Eliza Graham Walker (b 1828) and I am unsure of his other children.
Occupation wise he was from a farming family but I have records of him being a domestic servant then keeping a public house. He was listed as a labourer on his daughters baptism and marriage record and as a coachman on his wife death record (she died in 1866 in Yorkshire, England). I am actually just trying to decipher his "Trade or Calling" from the 1829 Bound Indentures record I found (I will attach a screenshot here). I'm thinking Plough something or Farmer?
His siblings were Jane, Ann, George, Mary, Rachel, John (died in infancy), Elizabeth (his twin) and Sarah (all born between 1777 and 1792).
I have taken a look at the great information and suggestions from JM and had not previously found the 1836 Ticket of Leave so that is great to have. But I am not having any luck finding a way to access the 1837 General Muster he mentioned from the UK.
Really must call it a night here but can't tell you how much I appreciate your interest in this matter.
Best Wishes
Caroline
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Plough, shepherd, milk?
M
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Comparing the entry for Thomas with the "trade or calling" images for some of the men listed just above Thomas on the Convict Indents, 1788-1842, Bound Indentures, 1829 I would agree with matthewj64.
Judith
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Thanks Matthew and Judith, I was struggling with that one!
Maybe you could help me with another deciphering puzzle from the same Bound Indentures document (or maybe you are familiar with the layout of the document and know it already)? It's a column heading, between "sentence" and "height". I've had a few guesses myself but can't settle on a pair of words. The notation in the column is "2" for Thomas Walker.
Thanks again,
Caroline
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Former conviction
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Former
Conviction
Well sorted Neale : :)
So a previous conviction ....
I am not near my desktop, so I have not seen the image of the whole document.
PS Matthew is spot on :)
Plough
Shepherd
Milk
So a skilled Farm Man .... can
1. sow seed (and repair his equipment and husband his animal/s that pull the plough)
2 Sheep ... can likely also butcher, skin, as well as feed, water, lamb the ewes, sort and make some into wethers,
3. Milk ... So dairy cows ... twice a day, and strain, perhaps make butter, cheese, ... not just feed hay ....
Skilled farm knowledge and animal husbandry ....
JM
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Thanks Neal and JM,
thanks for deciphering and good to know about the trade notations, makes sense as his father was a farmer so he'd have grown up in that environment.
Cheers
Caroline
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Sorry if I am asking too many questions but I know you all have a lot more experience of these records than me as it's my first time looking at anything to do with transportation.
On the "Ticket of Leave" records, where there is a column for each quarter, whose are the names listed in these columns? Is it some sort of guarantor or person vouching for them? Or is it somebody keeping the records? I have found Thomas on these records in 1839 and 1841.
In the Queanbeyan Applications R Campbell is listed as his employer. His Employment / Residence from the NSW Convicts arrived Lord Melville records, and "How disposed of" from the Bound Indentures records seem to match this name. Does the place say Sydney? (see two attachments). Also there seems to be a notation before R Campbell, could this be Honourable?
(I found a Robert Campbell online last night and see he held some important offices but don't know if "Hon" is a notation that would have been in use in NSW at the time, or if this would be the same man.)
As usual I started off this search looking for one thing (post 1843 information) and am now fascinated by all the details I am learning along the way!
Cheers
Caroline
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Honourable written as “Hon-able”
R Campbell Sydney.
Without seeing the whole document, I am guessing at someone holding a high office- in the legal profession or a member of parliament maybe.
Possibly this man, (or his son) who had his large estate at Queanbeyan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Campbell_%281769–1846%29
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Thanks (again!) Neale, the association with Queanbeyan fit's in with other information,
Cheers
Caroline
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There are many news items relating to Robert Campbell in the Queanbeyan area.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/
He died in 1859.
On a pedantic note regarding the script of Thomas WALKER's occupation,
There is to my eye superscript ending each of the words. Hard to see but...
So the reading might be
Plough (man)
Shep (herd)
and
Milk (er)
Sue
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:)
R Campbell ... I noted him at reply 1.
There is an excellent fairly new secondary resource that has a nominal annual subscription that may well be helpful for our O P . The index searches are no charge. It is a not for profit ongoing project.
Biographical Database of Australia.
https://www.bda-online.org.au/
....
a) being issued a Ticket of Leave in 1836, (#702 to remain in the Murray District
and then in 1843
b) Certificate of Freedom –( issued 16 Jan 1843, #081).
.....
The ToL 36/702 concludes with the formal details that show that The Goulburn Bench (so the Police Magistrate in that Police District) recommended that Thomas WALKER, 29/1088 be allowed under the terms of that ToL to remain in the then Murray District.
.....
Interestedly, there’s in that 1837 General Muster, an entry listed for a Thomas WALKER, aged 56, who was noted as arriving per the Lord Melville in 1828. The remarks column shows he had a Ticket of leave and was in the Queanbeyan District. I am unsure if that is convict number 29/1088, but I suspect it is because :
:) Among the digitised images there’s ‘Queanbeyan Applications 1828-1857 …
Headings include No. of Ticket (I am sure that would be the number of the existing ToL which needed to be reviewed and a new one issued etc etc … ToL valid for 12 months etc)
Anyway, on that Queanbeyan Application list there’s two mentions for Walker Thomas.
One reads:
Walker Thomas
Alias
Cooper, Richard
The other one .... it has blanks in two columns and then Walker Thomas, L Melville, 1829 R Campbell, and in the column for April 1841 it has P. I believe “P” was an abbreviation for “Ticket of Leave Passport."
....
Queanbeyean is still located in what was, in the 1840s known as the 'Murray' district. Murray is still one of the original 19 Counties of New South Wales, an admin system set up in the 1820s by the then NSW Governor, Darling as per the British Admin via Whitehall direction (so probably when the English Sec of State was Lord Bathurst ?)
JM
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Yes, Sue is spot on...on all accounts, including the superscript.
JM
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And there's a Ronald Campbell - he was also another person of note in that era...
And also check for a Peter BEST ... the Thomas WALKER per Lord Melville was assigned to him via a Ticket of Leave arrangement in the mid 1830s...
I have not yet found the spare moments for my hands on search for Thomas WALKER after the 1843 CF, (which is afterall the original question) but I have the backup team of ancient rellies 'on the case', so fingers crossed between us all (RChatters and my ancient rellies who OUGHT TO JOIN RCHAT, but have not) ... we will find Thos W.
JM
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Robert Campbell
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/campbell-robert-1876
I did some research on him and his family tree some years back. If your ancestor worked for the family, he was probably lucky. They were kind and benevolent. Both Robert and his 2 sons Robert and John were involved in, and supported the ant-transportation debate.
There was a nephew, named Robert Campbell junior, who was quite a rogue and created some problems for the family.
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background, CAMPBELL, Sydney
https://campbellsstores.com.au/history/ so from earliest British settlement of Sydney...
Also, Lachlan Macquarie, 'Father of Australia' (its on his headstone in Scotland), Governor of NSW post the first coup d'etat ... Rum Rebellion etc, deposing Bligh .... 26 January 1808 etc ...
Macquarie's wife, Elizabeth, her family name was CAMPBELL ... http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/macquarie-elizabeth-henrietta-2418
But we need to be looking at the period mid to late 1840s, for Thomas WALKER, so convictism ceased to NSW by 1840, he got his CF in 1843, and may well have been known by any name he chose to become known by. His marriage had quite within both NSW and English law, been effectively terminated back in 1828 with his sentence 'beyond the seas' for 7 or more years (he got 14, due to former convictions) ... so he had been free to marry from as early as mid 1829 (with the governor's consent while under the bond of that sentence, but completely free from 1843 issue of CF).
Clearly he was well trained for farming. But by 1843 he was no longer a young man ... so if he acquired his own land to farm, he would have needed to engage labourers to help. Remember too that in the mid to late 1830s, England had set up South Australia as a separate entity ... not as a penal colony ... so it had set up a private company to 'sell' land ... (NSW had been 'granting land', pastoral leasing etc, - differences are well documented) ... so the 'price' of land needed to return profit to the private company ... so NSW governor had to increase his 'upset' price and the 'quit rent' price etc ... so land became expensive ... so an economic depression befell NSW in the early to mid 1840s ... so .... where would a single chap with a CF go to start over again - in the years before huge populations flocked to 'Australia' with gold fever - commencing mid 1851 ?
I think of New Zealand, or 'Australia Felix' (ie that part of then NSW that became Victoria), or Cape Town (South Africa), or Peru, Chile or California or perhaps South Australia ... or he stayed in and around Queanbeyan or the Monaro -
Hope those suggestions are helpful.
JM (yes, Neale is right about the Campbells - umm.... yes, there's a rogue Campbell on one side branch of my own tree !)
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JM,
What information would likely be found on this death record if ordered?
WALKER Thomas
135/1846 V1846135 31B
AGE 66
The age is 10 years out.
I wonder at the quality of the script between a 5 and a 6 on the original.
Sue
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JM,
What information would likely be found on this death record if ordered?
I suspect it will be just a burial record with name, age and place.
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JM,
What information would likely be found on this death record if ordered?
7
WALKER Thomas
135/1846 V1846135 31B
AGE 66
The age is 10 years out.
I wonder at the quality of the script between a 5 and a 6 on the original.
Sue
It is the burial from CofE parish register. It may have the ship of arrival. Vol 31B ... definitely C of E.
I am not at home so I cannot give detail as to likely which C of E using the year 1846 and line no. 135, but likely just with such a low line number that it was NOT in Sydney town. Should be home by Sunday.
JM
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In reply#4 Caroline has let us know that Thomas' father was Church of England.
All a bit of a longshot, but as the man we are looking for is a direct ancestor, every thought is probably worth a follow up conversation.
Sue
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The following is speculative, but based on reliable sources...
Re the CofE Vol 31B .... from my very reliable ancient rellies, including retired CofE Rev'd...
Vol 31B is likely to include St Paul's, Cobbitty, Rev Hassell ... he was likely the first NSW born person to become an Anglican Reverend. In the 1840s he oversaw the dedication of the newly constructed church at Cobbitty ... there has been a cemetery there since at least the mid 1820s. And until THIS current century the district around Cobbitty has been a thriving farming community, providing much of the food bowl for ever expanding Sydney.
Rellie has compared a known DD from my family tree with the NSW BDM references and a guide on NSW website downloaded ages ago, and is confident that Vol31B around line 120 will be St Paul's so hopes 135 could be too.
Suggestions from my rellie ... look at Trove and at the earlier Ferguson newspaper 1840-1850 newspapers....
JM.
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Hi guys,
can't thank you all enough for the info (including fascinating background info and potential avenues of research), haven't had as much time to look into this today as I'd have liked, but I did find the Volume number mentioned (V1846135 31B) on an Ancestry index with the Registration Place listed as Cobbitty, Narellan (which JM referenced in his post).
Cobbitty seems to be a long way from Queanbeyean but then I don't know how the geography and distances would have married up at that time (and to somebody in the UK all Australian distances are huge!).
I'll see if the "Trove" throws up anything interesting when I get the chance.
Thanks you again,
Caroline
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It is about 200 kilometres from Queanbeyan to Cobbitty.
I do not know much about the history of that area, but the modern day map shows a road between the 2. If it was built upon an old track, I can imagine a middle-aged man in need of agricultural work and wanting to leave behind some unpleasant memories, may tramp away toward Cobbitty.
A rumour of increasing agricultural production in the area is a good incentive. Perhaps he had a horse, perhaps there was a passing wagon to offer a ride. Perhaps he had short stints on land holdings along the way.
As far as I can see, there is no mention of a likely Thomas WALKER in the newspapers at that time and place, which to me signifies he was of little importance, low profile person.
I do love how the imagination runs when we speculate on the past ;) :-\
It is just as likely this death is entirely the wrong man!
Sue
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Thomas may well have died somewhere else, and been buried in Cobbity, because it was the closest C of E church.
Cobbity (south west of Sydney) is in the Camden area (originally called “Cow pastures”). This is where Elizabeth Macarthur’s famous Camden Park Estate and Belgenny Farm was. It was / is an area rich in convict history and early agricultural history. In the 1840s, land in Camden was opened up for sale and there was substantial growth.
Thomas may have been in the vicinity because there was plenty of employment.
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Just a snippet or two re the 'Hn.ble R Campbell" as mentioned in the Bound Indenture disposal document (Reply #11)
Robert Campbell had many adventures as you can see by following the link provided by Neale1961 (Reply #18) http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/campbell-robert-1876
In December 1825 Campbell was appointed a member of the first New South Wales Legislative Council, which allowed him to use the epithet "Honourable".
He acquired property on the Limestone Plains (now part of Canberra) in the late 1820s-1830s and later named it Duntroon, but continued to live mostly in Sydney, visiting the property increasingly after his wife's death in 1833; Robert himself died at Duntroon on 15 April 1846, and was buried at St John's, Parramatta.
Some information from
http://www.crispinhull.com.au/book-on-canberra/chapter-2-european-settlement-and-the-naming-of-canberra/
By 1828 the total European population was 171 — only 8 of whom were women and 73 were convicts still under sentence. Most of the convicts probably led better lives off the sheep runs than they did in England. In the next five years, the population grew to more than 500. By 1836 it was 1700. In 1840 the convict population fell with the end of transportation. Small villages developed around Robert Campbell’s Duntroon and the Ginninderra properties. Robert’s son Charles came to Duntroon in 1835 to manage his father’s estate. Charles believed in giving labourers small amounts of land at low rent and encouraging married men to come to work on his estates. In 1845 St John’s church was completed. By this stage the nearby township of Queanbeyan (in present day NSW) had 500 people.
In the 1830s the first wool was exported out of the area. By 1834, Duntroon had 20,000 sheep. By 1838 Yarralumla had 25,000 sheep. The Canberra-Yass area still produces some of the finest wool in the world.
Seems to me that there would have been work around the area for a person with farming experience so I would think it less likely that Thomas would have gone on to Cobbity. However people did travel long distances by foot or by horse.
I'm intrigued by the reference on the Queanbeyan Application list as Walker Thomas, Alias
Cooper, Richard but mentions of a Richard Cooper are just as elusive.
On Monday I'll give the ACT Heritage Library a call and see if there's any possible access if there's any employment papers for Duntroon.
Judith
Just as an aside - Duntroon is now the site of the Royal Military College and Duntroon House is still used the Officers' Mess.
Edit to add - The dairy for the property is one of the oldest European-built buildings in the ACT, it was constructed about 1832 -perhaps Thomas was there!! ::)
https://www.nationaltrust.org.au/places/duntroon-dairy/
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Hello all,
Thanks Judith for confirming that Robert Campbell could use the epithet "Honourable" at that time. And thank you for the kind offer of trying to find out about Duntroon records.
I believe Thomas Walker alias Richard Cooper arrived on the Susan in 1833 so I have been treating him as an unrelated person.
"The Trove" has been very interesting to look at and I will use it further. I found reference to Thomas' 1836 Ticket of Leave in Murray Country and his certificate of Freedom issued in 1843.
A new piece of information I leaned was that he absconded from No. 44 Road Gang (reported in Government Gazette Notices September 1832), but I haven't found anything about him being "recaptured". So now I need to research Road Gangs and punishments for absconding!
In this 1832 article it again refers to him being from Northampton, so it seems that his true origins (Northallerton, Yorkshire) were misheard / badly transcribed and from his arrival in 1829 "Northampton" is the place most likely to be linked to his name in any convict records.
In an earlier post JM mentioned the 1837 General Muster. Does anybody know where I could search / view that as I'm having no luck via my UK resources?
Unfortunately I'm unlikely to the chance to do much research after today, at least not for a week or so, but guaranteed I will be greedily reading anything you may post and will have Thomas Walker mulling over in my head!
Thanks again everyone,
Best Wishes
Caroline
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Sorry - just clarifying ::) my reference to the dairy at Duntroon as I had left out a sentence. Now edited to read:
Edit to add - The dairy for the property is one of the oldest European-built buildings in the ACT, it was constructed about 1832 -perhaps Thomas was there!! ::)
https://www.nationaltrust.org.au/places/duntroon-dairy/
Judith
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Please don't overlook that Richard COOPER who was also known as Thomas WALKER. Afterall, whenever any of us do find any reference to a Thomas Walker in the Queanbeyan district we need to remember there were at least two chaps in the 1830s, 1840s known by that name in that district...
Queanbeyan - that was and is the County of Murray.
The road from Sydney down through Queanbeyan - that road went through Cobbitty far earlier than the sub-divisions of land in the 1840s... Back before the Rum Rebellion of 1808 even ..... it was surveyed by various of Sir Thomas MITCHELL's teams in the early 1830s :) One of my ancestors was one of the surveyors in his office, and in the field too. You will find many of the locality names are attributed to Thomas Mitchell. He often set about trying to find Anglo spelling for the local Tribal names of various geographical features...
National Library, Canberra :) Do not buy the NSW BDM Early Church Record. Consider that there may well be better details available from the records held by the NLA, in Canberra. :)
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/74208 Records of the parish of Narellan, 1827-1927 / compiled by A.F. Pain
https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/3540079
It is very possible that the chap at Cobbitty is not NOT our OPs chap, but I do think we need to check and see if the record does have any info that will help clarify this quest.
Any sightings from mid 1851 until closer to 1900 are going to be very difficult to sort, as the inflow of people once gold was discovered simply overwhelms any search for a former convict in NSW records unless there's known oral history, or confirmed family Bible entries, or written correspondence with signatures to check or identifying details in the correspondence... eg "I arrived in Sydney on ...th of ...... in the year 18..... on the ship ............ captain ............ and I married ........... the daughter/son of .............., a merchant/ag lab living at ............. I was born ......... at ......... my father was .......... / or another example 'I sold my land at ........ to ......... who arrived on the ship ........... in ..........." or 'I am not Joe Blow who arrived on the ........... under a bond. I am Joe Blow who arrived on the ........... on the ....th of ...... in 18xx with my wife, (her name) and children...... (name and ages)..' .
JM
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In case it is of interest I am attaching the 3 "Thomas Walker" references from the index of the 1841 census. If he is listed, I think your Thomas might be the one at Paramatta.
You would need to access the complete copy through the NSW archives.
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Very confusing -
this is the entry already quoted by JM on 8 December on the page of Queanbeyan applications (New South Wales, Convicts Records, Queanbeyan Applications, 1828-1857 , Volume Number: 4/5651) there are two entries for Thomas Walker
The first gives the name with no number or other notation except for "P" in the column labelled "Jany 1841; the name is bracketed with the alias.
"Walker, Thomas
alias Cooper, Richard"
The second has details which correspond with 'our' Thomas
Walker Thomas, arr per Ld Melville 1829, employed by R Campbell. The letter "P" is in the Jany 1841" column.
There is another page of these "Queanbeyan Applications, 1828-1857"
New South Wales, Convicts Records, Queanbeyan Applications, 1828-1857
Volume Number: 4/5651
And it has no mention of 'our' Thomas or are they the same man - not if the ship name is correct.
No of Ticket-38 1590
Walker Thomas, alias Cooper Richard, per ship Susan,
No other notations except - "free by servitude"
Judith
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I don't know the answer, but a few thoughts ... ??
The NSW census was 2nd March, and maybe at that stage Thomas had not yet been moved on to Queanbeyan.
Or
Robert Campbell (snr) was one of the biggest land holders in the colony at the time - from memory he had farms at Windsor, Paramatta and Queanbean, as well as house and wharves in Sydney - so maybe Thomas was employed for him at one of these other places.
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Names on the 1841 NSW census are only the heads of households. The others in household ... those names are NOT listed. Also only fragments of the 1841 are extant. The rest was lost ... likely lost in a fire in 1880s in Government storage in Sydney.
So extremely unlikely to find any person would was under a bond, still serving out their sentence as the person as head of a household in rural areas .... North shore was rural until mid 1930s and opening of Harbour Bridge. Parramatta was rural until WWI ... suburbs near Parramatta rural until 1980s... but Sydney 'itself ' and nearby suburbs were urbanized back in 1800s.
JM.
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Anyone looked up 1837 Muster?
I will phone my ancient rellies to see what they have found. Will post again, but not before tomorrow. It is 7 pm 14 Dec 2020 at the moment
ADD .... in 1841 Thomas was still subject to the Ticket of Leave system, so he was still in the Queanbeyan district where he had been back when ToL issued # 36/702.
JM.
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And there's a Ronald Campbell ......
And also check for a Peter BEST ... the Thomas WALKER per Lord Melville was assigned to him via a Ticket of Leave arrangement in the mid 1830s...
......
::) ::) ::)
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Hello again,
sorry for my absence but I'm now working offshore and have been limited on internet access and free time since my last post. Thanks for the suggestions and research you've done in the interim.
I managed to have a look for Peter Best who was the last name listed on Thomas Walkers ToL in October 1841 (15 months before his Certificate of Freedom was granted).
Peter Best was a landowner in the Gunning, King area of NSW around this time.
I hope to find time in the next few days to collate all the information and leads you've so kindly provided and try and make a strategy about how to proceed in finding out the answer to my original question of "what happened next?".
Thank you all again for your generous help,
Best Wishes
Caroline
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It's an interesting and challenging search, Caroline.
I wasn't able to access any of Campbell's Duntroon staff records so no help there.
Peter BEST - you have possibly accessed these but thought I'd post them anyway.
Gunning is a village north of Canberra, about halfway between Goulburn and Yass. It services quite a large farming area. King County, as shown in some of the records, was one of the administrative counties set up in the 1830s. The County system is largely unused now, superseded by shires - local government areas.
Death Notice, 1878
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/100877063
DIED,
On February 13th, at his residence Albert Vale,, Gunning, PETER BEST Esq., aged 63 years.
Obituary:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/100876590
--Yass Courier.
DEATH of MR PETER BEST OF ALBERT VALE.—
We announce with much regret the death of Mr. Peter Best of Albert Vale, near Gunning, which sad event took place at his residence on last Wednesday. The deceased was sixty-three years of age. The following obituary notice appears in the Gunning Leader:—" This gentleman, whose death it is our painful duty this week to record, was born at Seven Hills, near Parramatta, and came to this district about forty years ago. For some time he, in conjunction with his brothers, occupied the station on the Murrumbidgee called Nangus; but the blacks becoming too troublesome, they relinquished it, and Mr. Peter Best then bought the estate at Gunning on which he died. He named the estate Albert Vale. He had previously occupied Oolong, now the residence of his eldest son, Mr. P. Best junior.
Deceased was, as is shown, one of the oldest residents in this district, and we can safely say one of the most respected members of our community- for if an honest and upright life entitles a man to the respect of his fellow men, surely he deserved that respect, for in all his dealings he acted the
honest man. As a husband and father he was all that could be desired, being affectionate and indulgent to his wife and children to a degree seldom equalled and never excelled. His whole life was devoted to their comfort and happiness, never mixing himself up in public matters. He was always to be found attending to this business or at his home. The deceased gentleman was married in 1842 to Eliza daughter of the late Francis Lawliss Esq. of Oolong; and leaves his widow, three sons, and one daughter to mourn him. Deceased had been ailing a long time, but it was only within the last few weeks that he kept to his bed. Being of an active and determined character, he combatted as long as he could the disease to which he had at last to succumb (dropsy), and died peacefully on Wednesday night, surrounded by his family. His remains were interred in the Church of England cemetery at three o'clock on Saturday afternoon; and his funeral was one of the largest that that has ever taken place in the district."
Bushrangers at Albert Vale in 1865
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60567569
Photo of the house at Albert Vale
https://www.theland.com.au/story/5056457/tree-change-appeal-for-colonial-gem-within-city-limits/
And, of course, Thomas WALKER may have well moved on/died by the time of these mentions. It was not unusual for burials to take place on private land, although Albert Vale seems to be close enough to Gunning for an interment to be at the village cemetery. As has already been searched, there doesn't seem to be a suitable death in the area for Thomas.
Judith
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Hello Judith (and all RootsChatters), Happy New Year!
thanks for the information on Peter Best, it's very interesting to learn of the people Thomas would have been linked with / working for.
I have managed to find another reference to Thomas Walker via "the Trove". It's an article from the Goulburn Herald dated 10 May 1851:
"If Thomas Walker, who twenty years ago was in the service of the late Robert Campbell Esq , at Limestone Plains, will apply to Mr C Campbell, Duntroon, near Queanbeyan, he will hear of something to his advantage"
I am assuming C Campbell is Roberts son Charles who took charge at Duntroon after his fathers death. Of course this has further piqued my interest even though I can't be sure that Thomas was even still alive to read the notice in 1851. I tried to find the significance of 1851 with respect to the Campbell family in order to speculate what this may have been about but nothing jumped out at me.
Do you know of anywhere that would hold Duntroon / Campbell family records? I know you mentioned you weren't able to access the Duntroon records via the ACT Heritage Library. Do you know if this is because they don't hold any records or they weren't available to contact at that time?
While free time and internet access remain restricted I'm still chipping away at this when I can and am hoping that step by step I can get closer to answering my question about Thomas' fate.
Thanks again,
Caroline
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From my notes on the Campbell family ....
The Mitchell Library at the State Library of New South Wales has Robert Campbell Snr’s business papers and letters, and also copies of Frederick Campbell’s letter books on 4 microfilm reels.
The National Library holds the financial papers of Robert (Tertius) Campbell and a diary belonging to Marianne Campbell, wife of George Campbell.
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Here's the live link to the newspaper cutting
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/101736470 Goulburn Herald, 10 May 1851
ADD
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/campbell-charles-1871
JM
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Principal Superintendent of Convicts Office, Sydney 24 Sept 1832.
The undermentioned Prisoners having absconded from the individuals and employments set against their names …..
Any person harbouring or employing any of the said Absentees will be prosecuted as the Law directs ….
Walker Thomas, No. 29-1088, Lord Melville, 43, Farmer’s Man, Northampton, 5 feet 6, light hazel eyes, brown hair, ruddy freckled comp, scar of cut inside left hand, dark moles inside right arm, from No. 44 Road Gang…
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230389090/12475495 NSW Govt Gazette pages 314 and 315.
NSW State Library e-resources lists the following:
BOOK
Index to convicts in Iron Gangs and various trades 1788-1855, including 1821 victualling list / compiled by Kathryn Lucas.
Springwood, Qld. : K. Lucas, c1999.
c1999 NQ929.3944/27 , Q929.3944/30
I can see its ISBN is
ISBN : 0957738900
I can see its available in the reading rooms in the NLA in Canberra too.
JM
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So I think Thomas Walker was only with the Campbell assignment for a short time, then in the road gang and then with Peter Best ... of course none of that gives where he was after his CF was issued in 1843... He may well have gone to the Port Phillip district or to New Zealand or ... :-\ :-\ :-\.
JM
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The ACT heritage library has no records of papers for the Campbell family or for Duntroon estate in the 1800s and suggested that, as already mentioned by Neale1961, the Mitchell Library, NSW would be the repository of any such papers. I couldn't see any reference in their catalogue but Neale1961 may be able to see some as he's already done research on the family. Sydney has a highlevel of restrictions at the moment.
I've ordered the book mentioned by JM at the NLA (Index to convicts in Iron Gangs and various trades 1788-1855, including 1821 victualling list / compiled by Kathryn Lucas) and should be able to access it tomorrow (no deliveries from the stacks on the weekend).
Excellent find, JM and your TROVE find, Caroline, was brilliant.
No help at all in finding Thomas but thought this photo of croquet on the lawn at Duntroon House 1840 interesting. Quite civilised and no sign of the workers!!!
https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-141442649/view
Judith
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Looked at at that book today but Thomas WALKER wasn't mentioned at all - only a John WALKER, also from ship "Melville'.
Judith
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone, and thank you Judith for checking the Index.
I just had a spare hour and so was going back through the threads here to refresh my memory and plan my next step. One of the early posts from JM caught my attention again when he mentioned that Thomas would have been free to marry upon receiving his CoF and that he could have moved to NZ or 'Australia Felix".
I came across a marriage reference:
Thomas WALKER & Martha GAMBALL
17 Jan 1843
Geelong
Presbyterian
V18431505 76
It is the date of marriage that jumped out at me - Thomas received his CoF 16 Jan 1843. Could be a complete coincidence of course but I hope to get time again tomorrow to follow up further, just thought I'd share this possible link.
I identified via https://portphillippioneersgroup.org.au/pppg5g.htm that I could obtain a copy of the marriage certificate from the NSW Registry (if I decide it's worth pursuing, no "pdf" option).
I've only managed a cursory search on Martha Gamball. I found a Martha Gamble applying to marry in 1825 and a Martha Gamble arriving in Port Phillip in 1842 (she was Roman Catholic and 23yrs old, a lot younger than my Thomas) but no Martha GAMBALL (I know spelling was fairly flexible though).
Thanks again for all your help and suggestions, it's keeping me motivated to chip away at my search whenever I can!
Caroline
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone, and thank you Judith for checking the Index.
I just had a spare hour and so was going back through the threads here to refresh my memory and plan my next step. One of the early posts from JM caught my attention again when he mentioned that Thomas would have been free to marry upon receiving his CoF and that he could have moved to NZ or 'Australia Felix".
I came across a marriage reference:
Thomas WALKER & Martha GAMBALL
17 Jan 1843
Geelong
Presbyterian
V18431505 76
It is the date of marriage that jumped out at me - Thomas received his CoF 16 Jan 1843. Could be a complete coincidence of course but I hope to get time again tomorrow to follow up further, just thought I'd share this possible link.
I identified via https://portphillippioneersgroup.org.au/pppg5g.htm that I could obtain a copy of the marriage certificate from the NSW Registry (if I decide it's worth pursuing, no "pdf" option).
I've only managed a cursory search on Martha Gamball. I found a Martha Gamble applying to marry in 1825 and a Martha Gamble arriving in Port Phillip in 1842 (she was Roman Catholic and 23yrs old, a lot younger than my Thomas) but no Martha GAMBALL (I know spelling was fairly flexible though).
Thanks again for all your help and suggestions, it's keeping me motivated to chip away at my search whenever I can!
Caroline
My reply, it's #19 ... marriage in England effectively terminated back in 1828 and he had been free to marry from mud 1829 ... upon landing 'beyond the seas .... English law 1606 or thereabouts. Several RChatters have explain ed that law.
He was assigned,, so not serving time behind bars, and had set duties and free time under the Ticket of Leave system... so free to meet, form a relationship and marry, all in accordance with NSW civil admin practices established by Gov Lachlan Macquarie in 1810.
JM
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background, CAMPBELL, Sydney
https://campbellsstores.com.au/history/ so from earliest British settlement of Sydney...
Also, Lachlan Macquarie, 'Father of Australia' (its on his headstone in Scotland), Governor of NSW post the first coup d'etat ... Rum Rebellion etc, deposing Bligh .... 26 January 1808 etc ...
Macquarie's wife, Elizabeth, her family name was CAMPBELL ... http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/macquarie-elizabeth-henrietta-2418
But we need to be looking at the period mid to late 1840s, for Thomas WALKER, so convictism ceased to NSW by 1840, he got his CF in 1843, and may well have been known by any name he chose to become known by. His marriage had quite within both NSW and English law, been effectively terminated back in 1828 with his sentence 'beyond the seas' for 7 or more years (he got 14, due to former convictions) ... so he had been free to marry from as early as mid 1829 (with the governor's consent while under the bond of that sentence, but completely free from 1843 issue of CF).
Clearly he was well trained for farming. But by 1843 he was no longer a young man ... so if he acquired his own land to farm, he would have needed to engage labourers to help. Remember too that in the mid to late 1830s, England had set up South Australia as a separate entity ... not as a penal colony ... so it had set up a private company to 'sell' land ... (NSW had been 'granting land', pastoral leasing etc, - differences are well documented) ... so the 'price' of land needed to return profit to the private company ... so NSW governor had to increase his 'upset' price and the 'quit rent' price etc ... so land became expensive ... so an economic depression befell NSW in the early to mid 1840s ... so .... where would a single chap with a CF go to start over again - in the years before huge populations flocked to 'Australia' with gold fever - commencing mid 1851 ?
I think of New Zealand, or 'Australia Felix' (ie that part of then NSW that became Victoria), or Cape Town (South Africa), or Peru, Chile or California or perhaps South Australia ... or he stayed in and around Queanbeyan or the Monaro -
Hope those suggestions are helpful.
JM (yes, Neale is right about the Campbells - umm.... yes, there's a rogue Campbell on one side branch of my own tree !)
;D ;D ;D
JM Is not a male.
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I'm very sorry JM, I poorly paraphrased your previous post and hope I didn't cause offence by mis-genedering you, I've got you confused in my mind somewhere along the line with another contributor here.
Please accept my apologies,
Caroline
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;D ;D ;D
No need for any apologies, Caroline, we are all chasing your Thomas, but he is a WALKER, and he has many years head start on us all, he could have walked many a mile.
JM.
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A little info
St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church
17.1.1843
Thomas Walker, Bachelor + Martha Gamball, Spinster
residence both Geelong
witnesses Christopher Chan, Mary Stevenson
Minister Andrew Love
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;D ;D ;D
No need for any apologies, Caroline, we are all chasing your Thomas, but he is a WALKER, and he has many years head start on us all, he could have walked many a mile.
JM.
Thanks JM. My other ancestors have averaged around 10 miles per 100 years which is maybe the reason I live in a town named Amble - "to walk slowly"! So it's a new experience for me to find an ancestor who has, admittedly unintentionally, travelled so far ;).
Hoping things quieten down at work in a few days time and I get the chance to resume my research.
Thanks jonw65 for suppling the marriage information.
Caroline
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I think this is your Thomas Walker??
https://www.geni.com/people/Thomas-Walker/6000000073373482825
I came across this while researching the Walker family in New Zealand for a descendant of Thomas’ son John and it confirmed much of what I had uncovered. I was still puzzling about “what happened before” though and your post has certainly helped me with that.
Carol
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Hi Carol,
thank you so much for the link, I have only had the chance to take a quick look at the bio so far but it has certainly got me interested!
I think the Thomas Walker profile could be a melding of two Thomas Walkers born around the same time in the Northallerton area (and possibly even another Thomas Walker further afield in Yorkshire). Until 6 months ago I found myself on the "wrong track" with Thomas because of these namesakes.
Some details on the bio page match "my" Thomas (I am descended from his daughter Eliza Graham Walker, daughter of Charlotte Gregson), but other details don't match what I know so far (for example I believe my Thomas only had 3 children before leaving the UK). Are you a Walker descendant?
As soon as I am able I will try and pull apart what I know about the two Thomas Walkers and break it down in a post here. However this gives me some hope as I know "my" Thomas was indeed in NSW and I have found no record of him returning to the UK.
Thanks again and I hope to be able to dedicate some real time to this very soon.
Best Wishes
Caroline
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Hi Caroline
I have the death certificate of Robert Walker - who was born in 1852 in Yorkshire and died in 1937 in Stratford, Taranaki, New Zealand. He is the son of John Walker and Jane Dawes.
John and Jane arrived in NZ on Oct 19 1855 on the barque Queen Margaret. The passenger list does not give their children.
The Thomas Walker death notice in 1868:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WC18680222.2.13?end_date=31-12-1868&items_per_page=50&query=thomas+walker&snippet=true&start_date=01-02-1868&title=FS%2cHC%2cMH%2cMS%2cMT%2cPAHH%2cRAMA%2cSNEWS%2cTAIDT%2cWC%2cWH%2cWOODEX
refers to a son John living at Aramoho. John's obituary is here: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/MH19021206.2.15?end_date=31-12-1902&items_per_page=50&query=john+walker&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1902&title=FS%2cHC%2cMH%2cMS%2cMT%2cPAHH%2cRAMA%2cSNEWS%2cTAIDT%2cWC%2cWH%2cWOODEX
Hopefully those links work - let me know if not and I'll send a screenshot of the items.
Regards
Carol
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Sorry Caroline - forgot to answer your question.
I am not a Walker descendent - I've been doing this for my "son-in-law" Cam.
Thomas Walker would be his 4th great grandfather (Cam's 94 year grandmother is still living).
Carol
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Hi Carol,
thanks for the newspaper links, they worked fine.
I'll try not to overload the details here but give a summary of what I know and where I have "gaps" to try and confirm if "my" Thomas is the one who ended up in NZ (Thomas Walker was a common name in the area).
I am descended from Eliza Graham Walker, daughter of Thomas and Charlotte, baptised 1828 in Thirsk (from her baptism record). Thomas is my 4x great grandfather.
In 1827 a Thomas Walker was involved in a slightly convoluted illegal game selling incident that led to a much earlier allegation of hay stealing (in 1820) being brought into play. It was for this hay stealing (and a more recent theft of geese) that he was transported to NSW in 1828 only a month after Eliza Graham Walkers baptism in Thirsk.
In the newspaper report of the trial there is mention of Thomas Walker living in Thirsk in 1828 (matches his daughters baptism at this time). He was described as keeping a public house 1 mile from Northallerton in 1820 when the hay stealing took place (using a single horse cart).
Thomas was convicted and transported for 14 years on the Lord Melville arriving NSW in 1829 and granted his Certificate of Freedom in 1843.
In 1835 back home in Yorkshire a petition was raised on behalf of Thomas and this includes some good information / clues:
"For 5 years prior to his marriage in 1819 he was a domestic servant at Thornton-Le-Moor" - Thomas married Charlotte Gregson Graham 22nd May 1819 in North Otterington, very close to Thornton-Le-Moor. Charlotte and Eliza were both in Thornton-Le-Moor on the 1841, 1851 and 1861 census'. Charlotte died there in 1866.
"his three children the oldest of which is not more than 13 years of age, and his wife who is an industrious respectable woman" - Not more than 13yrs old in 1835 would mean his eldest (surviving) child was born around 1822, and Eliza would have probably been the youngest being born just before his transportation. Charlotte was a school mistress.
Charlotte's death certificate 1866 describes her as "wife of Thomas Walker, Coachman". (Wife, not widow as had been used on previous census'. As I've learned on this forum she could be described as a "widow" due to the length of his sentence).
On the Geni page you directed me to Thomas is listed with a lot more children and I believe this may be the due to confusion over two or more Thomas Walker families back in the UK. I also believe there is an alternative birth date and place and set of parents for Thomas (George Walker and Jane Sherwood, Brompton by Northallerton 1789) but until I'm sure this is "my" Thomas Walker in NZ there is no point climbing back up the (potentially incorrect) tree.
I will try and firm up George and John as children of "my" Thomas and Charlotte but their names are very generic. I am given hope however by the fact that Georges daughters, according to this Geni site, are named Jane "Graham" Walker and "Charlotte" Maria Walker (linking back to Charlotte Gregson Graham).
I hope this makes some sense to you. I will contact the Profile Managers on Geni and see if they can shed some light on the movement of Thomas from NSW to NZ with his son John.
If it turns out that your "son in law" Cam and myself are from the same Thomas I would of course send you everything I have on Thomas but won't "spam" you with unnecessary information til things become more clear.
Thanks again and take care
Caroline
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Dear RootsChatters,
An update on my search for Thomas Walker.
Carol pointed me in the direction of Geni page and after consulting with one of the profile managers all indications are that Thomas migrated to NZ around and died there in 1868.
So while his daughter, my ancestor Eliza, remained in the UK her two brothers moved to New Zealand in the 1850's and their father joined them there.
Of course there are still plenty of details for me to sort out but it seems that with your help I'm now on the right track.
I can't thank you all enough for the time and help you've given to this search. It's great to be able to make a step forward (or should I say back!) with my research and understanding of the family dynamics.
I hope to repay the favour, if not directly to the contributors on this post, then to other roots chatters in the future (always glad to help with Northumberland / North East England queries).
Thanks again and happy ancestor hunting,
Caroline
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This search has been fascinating and has kept us busy which is just how most of us like it.
You can repay us by up-dating your finds as they arise.
I just wish Rootschat researchers on other boards were as tenacious, co-operative and knowledgeable as those here on the Australia board. The collaborative efforts often uncover superb information.
Judith
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Excellent news. What a great way to start this new decade.
JM.
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Great news. Thanks for updating.
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Hello All,
I just thought I'd give you an update to let you know that I've finally managed to confirm that the Thomas Walker who died in Wanganui, NZ, in 1868 was indeed my ancestor who was transported to NSW in 1828.
A cousin of mine here in the UK and a Walker descendant in NZ found a DNA match at the "expected level". And then in order to "dot the i's and cross the t's" the same Walker descendant in NZ acquired a death certificate for her ancestor, George Walker (son of Thomas) and this stated his mother's (maiden) name was Charlotte Greagson (the name of my 4xG-Grandmother).
As always there are still mysteries to chase, for example why Charlotte was baptised as Gregson but was known as Gregson Graham at the time of her marriage and passed the Graham name down through the family. More research into Thomas' crimes in the UK suggest that he went on a spree of thefts in 1827, eventually leading to his conviction so I will try and find if there were and particular circumstances that led him to do so.
But in terms of my original question, as to what happened to Thomas Walker after 1843, I finally know that he moved to NZ to live with his two sons, longed to be reunited with his wife and daughter, and died of old age in 1868.
Thanks again for all your wonderful help (and putting me in touch with a long lost branch of the family in NZ who had no idea of their convictions ancestry!).
Best Wishes
Caroline
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Well found, Caroline.
Many thanks for letting us know the outcome of the searches - a puzzle solved, but more to find (as always)
Judith