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Title: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Wednesday 09 December 20 07:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Rootschatters,

I am posting this here because I have no idea where this famuly comes from in Ireland.  If the Mods whish to move it to somewhere specific thankyou. 

I have a family that looks very much like they come from Ireland.  the head at this point is Joseph Eggins and i think this person died in England in 1887. 
The Joseph Eggins I am looking for married Ann Eggins and I believe that this was in Ireland. The 1841 census has them born in Ireland.   
they have a daughter Ann Eggins who married when she was 16ys old this was to Patrick Murphy. That marriage was in England in 1845. They had several children and then Patrick died in 1861 and Ann Murphy married Richard Peel.

I am hoping to find the elder Joseph Eggins and His wife Ann  ?? from Ireland.

Ann immigrated to Australia  and died here in 1902. Unfortunately the care place has not got a full record of her parents.  Just Joseph Higgins and Ann   with a word very hard to read.  The image is not good.  My first thought was Foget or Fogit but it could be "Forgot".  She had senile dementia.

I have tried roots.ie church records but drew blanks.
Any thought would be really appreciated.
Thanks for reading.
Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Girl Guide on Wednesday 09 December 20 07:59 GMT (UK)
If this is your Joseph then he would have been born about 1816

EGGINS, JOSEPH       71 
GRO Reference: 1887  M Quarter in WESTMINSTER  Volume 01A  Page 385
 
Bear in mind that the age at death will be what the person giving the details thought it was.

Ann's marriage for reference

Marriages Mar 1845

EGGINS    Ann        St Martin    1   147
MURPHY    Patrick        St. Martin    1   147
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Girl Guide on Wednesday 09 December 20 08:12 GMT (UK)
There is a death recorded for what I assume is the elder Joseph

EGGINS, JOSEPH       71 
GRO Reference: 1854  J Quarter in STRAND  Volume 01B  Page 256

This gives a birth year of about 1783
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Wednesday 09 December 20 08:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Girl Guide,
Thankyou for the quick replies. 
What's in your first reply is the group I am looking into.   So a "yes" to that information. The second one at Strand I have put aside as it just does not really fit to anything else.

The Westminister person seems to have had a son also Joseph Eggins and twin daughters Ann and Mary all born in Ireland.  In 1841 young Joseph is 22 and the twins are 15ys old. 
The Wesminster Joseph's wife is Ann "somebody"  also from Ireland.  And I don't know where in Ireland.

It is one of the twins that died in Australia in 1902 Ann daughter of Joseph Eggins and Ann unknown.
It is a thought that the Strand one might be the previous generation?
Thankyou for this
Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 09 December 20 08:50 GMT (UK)
This is the Strand person

1851 1510/3r2/19
 Joseph 67 yrs b Devon with Ann b Ireland.
Daughter Mary b Ireland.
There is a daughter Jane Bacon and children.

Next door but one is Patrick Murphy with wife Ann 22 yrs and family.
I can give further details if you need them.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 09 December 20 09:07 GMT (UK)
Jane Eggins, father Joseph a labourer married James Bacon in 1843.
Witnesses were Joseph Eggins and Jane McKenna.

There was an Elizabeth McKenna with the 1841 family.

I am not sure what you mean by the ‘groups’. The family are in Strand parish in 1841. I think there is only one family.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: wivenhoe on Wednesday 09 December 20 10:11 GMT (UK)
Altered....

Ancestry London BDM
St Mary Islington 1 Jul 1861
PEEL Richard widower Supervisor PO   father Edward PEEL, weaver
MURPHY Ann     widow                            father Joseph EGGINS coach trimmer
res. for both  5 Wilton Sq
Witnesses Thos BILBY    Mary BACON

Baptism   Old St Pancras
EGGINS James Albert William  b. 9 Apr  1815  bapt.     25 Feb 1849
Res.  St James Market   parensr Joseph / Ann
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 09 December 20 10:28 GMT (UK)
1851 shows these birth places:
Joseph Eggins b Brandwood, Devon
Ann Eggins b ‘Burricane’ Ireland
Mary Eggins b Mount Rath, Ireland
Jane Bacon b Ashborn, Ireland

I can’t see Brandwood, Devon
I wonder if ‘Burricane’ is Borrisokane, Tipperary
Mountrath - County Laois (formerly Queens County)
Ashbourne - County Meath

In a later census, young Joseph gives County Tipperary as birthplace.

What religion were the family?
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: wivenhoe on Wednesday 09 December 20 10:57 GMT (UK)

The Telegraph 21 Dec 1902 p4   Benevolent Asylum Dunwich
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/172588908?
.... Ann Peel, 71. native of Devonshire, England......
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 09 December 20 11:10 GMT (UK)
The marriage should be Richard Peel and Ann Murphy, wivenhoe.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 09 December 20 11:37 GMT (UK)
Thanks for changing it. I couldn’t find it and wondered.  :)
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Wednesday 09 December 20 12:16 GMT (UK)
Hi heywood,  Thank you for your replies and wivenhoe too.

I was looking at the Census printout and realised that the Parish was Strand so that connects to the Strand Death for Joseph I would say. 

There is Joseph 50 and Ann 40  and it is this Ann I need to get a surname for.
The Patrick Murphy and Ann next door but one is their daughter Ann an she is the one who immigrated to Australia later in life after marrying Richard Peel.  This is the family . 

Where the Westminster death fits I got wrong I think.

 We have a few records here giving Devonshire but this would/should be for JosephEggins only.
to me it looks like his information has beenused wit Ann as they did not really know.

I am trying to find where Ann wife of Joseph was actually born.   She died in 1902 aged 71 but I think she may have been older: that makes her birth about 1826.

 On the document from the Asylum where she died it says 71 and Devonshire.  I think she was admitted there by her son, Henry Josiah Peel. he would have told the Asylum people just what he believed was right. 
Ann we think came from Ireland.

I have not got Jane as a daughter.
Addit: Oh good find heywood. 1851 I didnt get that particular piece so will go hunt it up.. that is what  am after the places in Ireland and Ann's maiden Name.

The Asylum was run by the Salvation Army and yes they reported each week as the government requires.  As to Ann  and Devonshire as i said i would say that it what Henry Josiah peel her son by second marriage thought was correct. Thanks for the paper snippet.

The Irish places are fanastic thanks  now again off ths Asylum Doc the religion is Church of Ireland  probably C of E in Australia, definitely not RC on this doc.

Thank you so much and yes anything you find could help here.
Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 09 December 20 18:30 GMT (UK)
With regard to Joseph snr, his birthplace is transcribed on Ancestry as Bradwood. (I wrote ‘Brandwood’ earlier.)

The name Eggins is found around Broadwoodwidger in some records and  also Werrington which is not far away.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Wednesday 09 December 20 21:05 GMT (UK)
Hi heywood,

Thank you I'll note that and take a look . 

I now will have to see what I can hopefully find on the Irish records. I do now have a good record of the family and that is wonderful ..
Thanks again ever so much.

Essnell.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 09 December 20 22:42 GMT (UK)
Good luck. I can’t find anything   ::)

Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Colin Cruddace on Wednesday 09 December 20 23:15 GMT (UK)
Quote
The Westminister person seems to have had a son also Joseph Eggins and twin daughters Ann and Mary all born in Ireland.  In 1841 young Joseph is 22 and the twins are 15ys old.
The Wesminster Joseph's wife is Ann "somebody"  also from Ireland.  And I don't know where in Ireland.

It is one of the twins that died in Australia in 1902 Ann daughter of Joseph Eggins and Ann unknown.
It is a thought that the Strand one might be the previous generation?


Just browsing again, and it looks as though you are basing the fact of twins being on their ages in the 1841 census, BUT ages in the 1841 were rounded down to 5 years from ages 15 and over., so Ann and Mary were in the age group 15-19 and could be for eg. 16 and 19.

Another point to clarify (just in case) Native of... actually means birthplace.
Rather appropriate for this time of year, ie Nativity.  :)  ;D

Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 10 December 20 00:30 GMT (UK)


"..Ann Eggins.....married.......Patrick Murphy.....they had several children and then Patrick died in 1861"

What children you have for Ann EGGINS and Patrick RYAN........names, ages, birth place please.

When did Patrick RYAN die in 1861.........before the Census?

I see the death of Ann PEEL in Queensland, 1902.

Who came to Australia........Ann PEEL ....and.......husband Richard?........which children?..........

When and where did they arrive in Australia.....in Queensland?.....what ship?.....what year?
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 10 December 20 00:47 GMT (UK)


Courier-Mail  6 Sep 1940 p6
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/40948611?


DEATH OF MR. J. H. PEEL Mr. Josiah Henry Peel, 74, of Adelaide Street, Clayfield, died on Tues
day.

........native of London, Mr. Peel arrived in Brisbane on June 15, 1884.

......Ted Willetts, one of the first six members of the Royal Air Force decorated by the King
in this war, is a nephew.

.......widow, one son— Mr. H. C. D. Peel (Brisbane) — and. three daughters
— Mesdames F. LEWIN (Melbourne), Allan CAMPBELL (Brisbane), and James THORBURN (Khartoum).
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: wivenhoe on Thursday 10 December 20 02:01 GMT (UK)

BDM QLD death
1889/B/21569  FRANCE Jane Ann  died 4 Jan 1889
parents Jane Ann EGGINS / Patrick MURPHY

1896/C/3427  PEEL Dorothy Gladys died 26 Nov 1896
parents Henry Josiah PEEL / Harriet Louisa DAY



buried same plot Toowong Cemetery         https://graves.brisbane.qld.gov.au/
PEEL   Dorothy Gladys      age   0   buried 27 Dec 1896
FRANCE Jane Anne                             buried 5  Jan 1889
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Friday 11 December 20 10:34 GMT (UK)
Hi wivenhoe,

Thank you for replying.  Sorry for the delay in coming back. I had appointments yesterday and I have been looking for answers to some of your questions.

Ann married Patrick Murphy 1846 Yes.
Partick died 1861  Yes. in England
children for Ann and Patrick Murphy 

*   Alice Mary Murphy 1847-1884
* Edward Murphy  1850- ?
* Arthur William Murphy 1851 - ?
* Joseph George Eggins Murphy 1858 - 1863
*  Jane Ann Murphy   ?  -?


Ann Peel born Eggins formerly Murphy, died  in Queensland, Stradbroke Island, Dunwich Benevolent Asylum  1902.    {i have a copy of their record for her admission and death}
Ann is buried in the Asylum Cemetery now Stradbroke Cemetery.

Immigration  Ann Peel immigration 1871, which is partiall convfirmed on the Asylum documents.

I believe that Richard also immigrated as did the two Peel sons.  I have not got proper documents for those but there are trips back and forth from Brisbane to Sydney by Henry Josiah Peel and he lived at various places in Brisbane - in particular Eagle Junction which is also noted on the Asylum information.

I think Richard Peel was in Sydney.  There is one trip by Mrs A Peel to Sydney as well,

I had not worked on the descendants of Henry peel but this is all great information.  Thank you for finding this and posting.


Ann was previously living with her son Henry,  who you have found information for on his family and his death.  I shall try to find his 1884 emigration papers.  He may have not been an assisted immigrant.
Thank you so much for helping - it is much appreciated.

Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 12 December 20 07:17 GMT (UK)


Can you please list all the information on the death certificate for Ann PEEL, died 1902.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Saturday 12 December 20 09:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Wivenhoe.   

OK . I have purchased the photocopy of the death registration. What I previously did find was the Asylum Record which has all that is on the Death Certificate plus a few other things.
Can I PM this to you please? 

Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 12 December 20 10:12 GMT (UK)


The benefit of using a forum for your research is that numerous people have access to the information that you are working with.

Listing the information on the death certificate, here, would be better.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Saturday 12 December 20 10:31 GMT (UK)
Hi wivenhoe,

Ok : I just was not sure about it but it is all in the thread in anycase ; 

This is what it says:
Col 1. 
  Died on 25th December 1902 at Dunwich Benevolent Asylum.
col2. 
   Ann Peel  housewife
Col 3.
Female 71 yrs.
Col 4.
(1) Senile decay
      syncope
(2)  (Duration of last illness)   ...Unknown

(3)   Dr. Stockwell

(4)   25th December 19-02

Col 5.
    Joseph Eggins
         Plumber

      Ann

Col 6.

Certified in writing
 by
     James Stockwell
Medical Superintendant
Benevolent Asylum,
       Dunwich
Col 7.
Has the signature of the Registrar and the date
  2nd January 1903
 Moreton East.

Col 8
Buried
26th December 1902
Cemetery Dunwich
Certified by John Edmonston (with his mark)

Col 9.   place of birth and time in Australia.
        Devonshire , England.
  40 years in Queensland

Col 10.  marriage, to whom and how long.
       (1)   London, Middlesex, England
       (2)   16 years
       (3)   Richard Peel
Col 11  if married Living issue and deceased Issue
     Living
 Robert Sidney  40 yrs
       Henry       25yrs
         Edward

    Dead 
     7 females.
       
In the right hand margin past the last column is written age unknown  and there are several date stamps the most recent being 2003.

There is conflicting statements on this document.
Ann's father Joseph Eggins was born in Devonshire, his wife and his children were all born in Ireland as heywood found and as family had thought.
Ann was actually married twice the first when she was 16yrs old. Her husband died 15 years later. She had had several children in those years.  She married Richard Peel, the very next year. They had only two sons.  and according to the Asylum records she was living with him.

He is on the Queensland Electoral Roll for that time at the exact address given on the Asylum records.
Also it is impossible for her to have been in Australia for 40 yrs. It just does not add up.

Hope the above is what you were hoping to see and thanks for helping.
Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 12 December 20 11:37 GMT (UK)

*  Jane Ann Murphy   ?  -?


MURPHY, JANE  ANNE
Mother's maiden surname: EGGINS     
GRO Reference: 1856  M Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 296


The Joseph Eggins I am looking for married Ann Eggins and I believe that this was in Ireland. The 1841 census has them born in Ireland.   


In 1841 Joseph Snr and Jnr are not born in the county (Middlesex), only  Ann Snr and the two daughters are born in Ireland.  Joseph Jnr later claims to be born in Ireland though the 'I' is deliberately deleted for him in 1841 and this information would most likely have been given by his father.  In later census records the girls claim to be born in Devon.

You may have to consider that this is a mixed family and the children are not Joseph and Ann's as a couple, and this may be why they are so confused about where they were born.

Just some years from census records to have them all together.

Joseph c1821
Jane Ann c1825  (which means she was not of the stated full age when she married in 1843)
Mary c1826
Ann c1829

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 12 December 20 12:13 GMT (UK)
1851 shows these birth places:
Joseph Eggins b Brandwood, Devon
Ann Eggins b ‘Burricane’ Ireland
Mary Eggins b Mount Rath, Ireland
Jane Bacon b Ashborn, Ireland

I can’t see Brandwood, Devon
I wonder if ‘Burricane’ is Borrisokane, Tipperary
Mountrath - County Laois (formerly Queens County)
Ashbourne - County Meath


https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegisters/PARISHREGISTERS.pdf

Ashbourne see Ratoath

Ratoath - Notes: 3 volumes of parish registers, comprising baptisms 1686-1877, marriages 1700-1821 and burials 1700-1874, were destroyed in the fire in the Public Record Office of Ireland in 1922

Mountrath see Clonenagh

Clonenagh - Original records held by the Representative Church Body Library, Churchtown, Dublin 14

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 12 December 20 12:38 GMT (UK)
With regard to Joseph snr, his birthplace is transcribed on Ancestry as Bradwood. (I wrote ‘Brandwood’ earlier.)

The name Eggins is found around Broadwoodwidger in some records and  also Werrington which is not far away.

This one is pretty close.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLRC-PKMM

Debra  :D
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Saturday 12 December 20 13:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Dundee,  Thank you for your additions to this story. Every little bit helps sort the issue. 

I am actually getting a bit lost here so this is how it is:

No. it is not a mixed family. 

I started with Ann Eggins,  her father is Joseph Eggins and he married someone named Ann XW.
Joseph Eggins and AnnXW had several children including Ann their daughter. born C1830.

Joseph and AnnXW had these children:
James Albert William Eggins
Joseph Eggins
Jane Eggins  she married Bacon
Mary Egins
and our Ann Eggins married Murphy -as below  then Peel as further below:


So Ann Eggins married Patrick Murphy when 16yrs old.   It was thought she came from Ireland  so I started searching.  I found her father and mother but no name surname for her mother Ann.

Ann  Eggins and Patrick Murphy had these children:
Alice Mary  Murphy  1847
   Edward   Murphy   1850
Arthur William Murphy 1851
Jane Ann Murphy 1856
 Joseph George Eggins Murphy 1858

After Patrick died in 1861 Ann  Murphy  formerly Eggins married Richard Peel in 1862

So Ann and Richard had two sons as far as I can find.
Robert Sidney Peel
Henry Joseph Peel  known as Henry Josiah or Josiah Henry Peel.

At some point Ann  and the Peel boys go to Australia and I believe Richard also did. Ann herself came in  1871 . This is the only record where she is in Queensland. Henry seems to have come in 1884.

Joseph Snr was born in Devonshire.  AnnWX may have be born in Ashwater. She died in 1870 in Westminster.

 Hopefully we've all got it together. Well not quite- there are only 2 females that Ann had over the two marriages unless... but there are 7 supposedly deceased female children, food for thought     eh?.   
 
Excellent Debra thank you, this is icing on the cake.    I shall give those links a go and let you know what I find .

Thank you to everyone.   :) Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Saturday 12 December 20 13:40 GMT (UK)
I started with Ann Eggins,  her father is Joseph Eggins and he married someone named Ann XW.
Joseph Eggins and AnnXW had several children including Ann their daughter. born C1830.

Joseph and AnnXW had these children:
James Albert William Eggins
Joseph Eggins
Jane Eggins  she married Bacon
Mary Egins


Do you have James Albert William in a census anywhere?

I can see a late baptism in 1849.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Saturday 12 December 20 14:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Heywood,

unfortunately no.  I was looking last night and I did have about 6 different ones open but I had to close down and didn't get to save them.  I have seen it on about 6 trees on anst so it does need checking again.
 I do believe  he was baptised as an older child not a baby.
 Thanks for asking I shall try to find it again it is not on all the census.
I may have checked it on GRO or Freebmd. I shall recheck  in the next 24hrs it is midnight here and I have to get some sleep as I am out in the am early.  sorry about that. 
Thankyou for again  - it has to be spot on this has, 
Cheers Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Saturday 12 December 20 14:29 GMT (UK)
The baptism at Old St Pancras, February 12th 1849

James William Albert Eggins , parents Joseph and Ann, abode St James Market , occ Plumber
Birth 9th April 1815

The occupation would apply to Joseph usually.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Sunday 13 December 20 03:53 GMT (UK)
Hi heywood,

Thank you that is the family. He is the first child  Joseph Snr and AnnXW had.   The others are later spread out to 1829/30.    Yep I think you have hit the jackpot again. 

Thanks I really do appreciate all your help.
 Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Sunday 13 December 20 06:09 GMT (UK)
I have no access but FindMyPast has mention of James Albert Eggins b 1817 in Merchant Seamen Records. There is also James A Eggins - 3 records in total.

Looking him up on Ancestry shows a published tree with the baptism already mentioned and reference to the Merchant Seamen record and gives a birth in Devonport.

This then implies  that Joseph and Ann were married before or about 1815.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 13 December 20 08:01 GMT (UK)

I think it would be useful to your research to see these two records. Jane FRANCE likely left small children. Did her husband marry again?.  I do not see a marriage in QLD.   Who raised her children?
When did she arrive in QLD?.

There was much chain migration in the 19th century, and Ann PEEL might have had MURPHY / PEEL / EGGINS....other....... family in QLD.

The death certificate for Ann PEEL has a name recorded for her mother's family name.

Even though it would seem to be illegible, it would suggest that the children of Ann EGGINS know her name. You would hope to find other children of Ann EGGINS.....migrated to Australia?.......where such detail would be recorded on a death certificate in several states.

Marriage certificate for Josiah will record names of witnesses....might be extended family. It would also record name of father...Richard PEEL....with notation (dec) is such applies.

Richard PEEL is not easy to find in the Census records. 

Richard PEEL married, 1862, as a widower. Did he have children by the earlier marriage?

QLD BDM
1889/B/21569  Jane Anne France
Death 04/01/1889   parents Jane Anne EGGINS / Patrick MURPHY

Marriage registration:
1892/B/15715    Henry Josiah PEEL  marr. Harriet Louisa DAY

Are you a direct descendant of any of these  people named in this research?



Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Monday 14 December 20 03:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Heywood,

Joseph Eggins Snr married AnnXW  sometime C1815. A Banns Record for that would help matters.

I found the   Baptism record for James and the birth date so yes that correlates to marriage for his parents C 1815. 

I cannot fine the information about the seaman. I have looked on both search places and gone through the Murphy websites.  So the birth info is all that is needed.   That is enough on this piece and thank you for looking.  I am very grateful for your help.
Cheers,
Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Monday 14 December 20 03:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Wivenhoe,

Richard Peel on Census not found by me either.
Peel/Murphy marriage 1862 I have  thank you.  This marriage produced two sons. Robert and Henry which I have.
Richard was previously married to Jane Forrester.  I have the Banns Record for this. Jane died C 1860/1. Richard had 3 or four small children by then.

Jane Ann France I have not any info on her and I have not found anything since I saw this that fits . 
I have Henry Josiah and his wife Harriet. They had several children. They were in Australia and there is information on them.

On the Asylum Record for Ann her mother's, AnnXW, maiden name is not readable on the digital copy and what is there has not been recorded on the Official Death Certificate which I purchased just in case it had been.  Also her age is marked in the margin as "not known".  Ann did have "Senile Decay".

As to direct relatives. Maybe.  I am helping a person who in some way is related to me as a cousin, along with others from Europe to whom I am directly related. It is not known right now how, but other information makes that pretty certain for the cousin. The link just needs to be found.
The cousin as asked me to try to find their Gt Gt Grandmother's maiden name and birth place as well as the birth places of that lady's  descendants.  I was given the basic information for the family which this topic covers and I think I have more or less achieved the answer to this quest.   The big issue is to try to find my cousin's father. 
I am very grateful for all that people have done to help with this and it is very much appreciated.   
 
Thanks Everyone. 
Essnell 
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Monday 15 February 21 02:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Heywood and others,

I have come back to this thread as there are a few developments.  I have found that the father of Ann, Joseph Eggins, was probably in the British Army when his children were born and serving in Ireland.

Information as yet not verified and that is why I am posting. 

Joseph Eggins  joined the 28th Foot Soldiers 2nd Battalion.  I would like to know when and where he served and if this is the same Joseph.
Where do I look?  Would Kew Archives be the right place?

Any ideas would be really appreciated.
Thanks for taking time here.
Regards
Essnell.



Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Monday 15 February 21 08:34 GMT (UK)
I can’t see anything in Military records. :-\

28th regiment of foot

https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/28th-north-gloucestershire-regiment-foot

Where does your information come from?

Whilst looking, I came across some records for Joseph jnr. As I am not sure if you are including him in your records and what you have, I won’t post unless you need them.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Monday 15 February 21 10:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Heywood,
    thanks for the info and for looking it up. I was told this by a contact from an ancestry tree and because most of the information adds up I was after some proof which they don't have.

 I have read through the history of the Regiment as on the link and one sentence is of interest. it says:-
"
Victorian wars

The regiment spent the two decades after 1815 in the Mediterranean, Ireland and England. It then sailed with convict ships to Australia as garrison troops before transferring to India in 1842."

So this means that the Regiment could well have been in Ireland at the time the children were born.  I shall try contacting the relevant people and see what transpires. 

Re Joseph Junior. He is/was the last on the list to do so I have nothing of value, so yes anything will help.
   
I have had to go through all the children and their children plus the issue of people marrying more than once or not marrying and the families thus ensuing.  As well as incorrect information. I am almost there. I might have found some of what I was asked to help with.  So all good. 


Regards
Essnell
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Monday 15 February 21 12:29 GMT (UK)
Firstly, here is, I think, the burial of Joseph snr. In case you don’t have it.

Burial Brompton Cemetery
May 1st 1854 Joseph Eggins, 71 yrs, 2 Lisle Street , Leicester Square

Young Joseph
Marriage St Thomas Portsmouth , 23rd March 1846
Joseph Eggins and Harriet Harding

1851 1484 /274/9
2 St James Market
Joseph Eggins 31 yrs Plumber b Ireland
Harriet 30 yrs b Gloucestershire
Plus 4 children and a servant

1861 176/15/35
2 Lisle Street
Joseph 43 yrs Plumber b Ireland Ct Tipp’y
Harriet 42 yrs b Kingscourt, Gloucestershire
Plus children and
Ann -do- mother in law married b Ireland Tipp’y

Ann is dittoed under Eggins name and of course would be widowed. I haven’t noted where you have her death.
The enumerator has dittoed someone else on the page in another family who is described as ‘in law’   :-\

In 1969, Joseph Eggins, 45 yrs, Plumber, is sentenced to 18 months in the House of Correction, Cold Bath Fields.
He pleaded guilty to Larveny by Servant - stealing 13lbs of lead.

1871 146/22/1
B Ireland and still in Lisle Street with Harriet and 2 children.

He must die 1887 as there is probate granted to Harriet - personal estate £129.12s
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Monday 15 February 21 13:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Heywood,

Thank you for the last post and the information. 

I'll look up all the records and get copies.

I do have Joseph Snr's death etc and only by chance.

The rest I don't have.  I did see the Prison sentence but though it was not this family what a daft thing to do. He must have stolen from his employer.

Re Ann Mother-in law that would be his wife's mother  Mother of Harriet Harding.

Ann Eggins-Murphy did marry again and he is a really interesting person. She and the two sons they had left England and him and immigrated to Australia about 1871. Richard Peel was alone by the 1891 census.  Ann died there after suffering dementia.

I have checked with the Gloucester Regiment for research help but they are snowed under with requests till end Feb 2021. I'll check again later and see if I can place a request. I might get nothing but I can try.  If I hear anything I shall post it here.

Thanks again.
Regards
Essnell.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Monday 15 February 21 13:10 GMT (UK)
I thought that Ann might be your Ann Eggins mistakenly described as mother in law rather than mother.
The death in 1870 is the right area and age.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Monday 15 February 21 13:14 GMT (UK)
Baptism of Harriet Harding 1819, Kingscote, Gloucestershire with parents John and Sarah could well be Joseph jnr’s wife.
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: Essnell on Tuesday 16 February 21 02:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Heywood,

Yes the 1870 death is the correct Ann Eggins.  She is Joseph Jnr's Mother. 
In this family there are so many called Ann and Jane. It has been a bit of a nightmare to sort it all.

The mother-in-law is odd.  It has to be a mistake with the Ditto.  This lady is 60, so DOB is C1800. Our Ann is not that old. She married to Richard Peel in 1862 and had two more children, Immigrated 1871 and died in Queensland Australia. Has to be Harriet's mother or Joseph's grandmother.

Joseph's Mother is supposed to have been born in Ireland.  Some census say Devonshire.  The 28th Foot Soldier information and it being in Ireland actually gives these statements some credibility. 
 

I will check this Baptism for Harriet Harding before anything else.   
What about this Baptism:

Harriet Harding
15  Dec 1819
Solihull, Warwick, England
Father: Walter Harding
Mother: Ann

I think it makes more sense. I'll do a bit more checking and let you know  Harriet's death might tell something.

Thank you for all of this.

 Regards
Essnell 



 
Title: Re: Ireland Help with Eggins family
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 16 February 21 07:58 GMT (UK)
Harriet, according to the census is from Kingscote, Gloucestershire.
I don’t quite understand your references to Ann. I am referring to Joseph snr’s wife and the mother of Joseph jnr.
1861 176/15/35

I think the it is likely that ‘mother in law’ is an error, as is the reference to ‘married’.
Ages are often out - probably didn’t matter so much.
Which leaves you with an older Ann Eggins, born in Tipperary.

Do you have the older (mother) Ann somewhere else in 1861 before her death in 1870?

You will find a probate listing for Harriet and her (and Joseph’s) daughter, Ann /ie Maria too.