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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: roycymru on Saturday 12 December 20 17:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Wonder if someone who has access to American records can help. Trying to see if a suggested DNA link might be correct. A key document looks to be the death certificate of a Elizabeth D Richards (nee Phillips) born 1860 “Wales” died 1939 and buried Frackville, Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania, United States of America.
If someone has access I would be grateful if they could provide details of the death certificate for her. from Pennsylvania records 1906 - 1967. I am hoping it might confirm her parents. If the father is Thomas Phillip(s), then I can investigate further as Thomas might be the son of Daniel Phillip and Elizabeth Thomas of Furnance, Llanelly, Elizabeth being my 3rd great aunt.
Thank you
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Elizabeth D Richards
Address 1518 Electric Street
Birth date 24/4/1860 Wales
Widow of Thomas Richards
Father Thomas Philips
Mother Ruth Davies
Died 7/12/1939 age 79 years
Dunmore Lackwanna Pennsylvania
Rosie
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Thomas Philips married Ruth Davies 1855
Llanelly Carmarthenshire
The family are in Pennsylvania 1870 census Schuylkill Pennsylvania
Thomas Phillipe ( transcribed on Ancestry ) at 38 born Wales abt 1832 ( miner )
Ruth Phillips age36 born Wales
Anne 14 born Wales ,Daniel 12 Wales ,Elizabeth 11 Wales
Martha 11/12 ,John 6, Mary 3 all born Pennsylvania
Rosie
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Hi Rosie
Thank you that’s excellent. If possible, and if you don’t mind, are you able to provide details of some other records that might be related. Ruth Davies/David as Thomas Phillips wife seems a common theme but there seems to be a Thomas T Phillips and a Thomas Phillips, not sure if they are one and the same
Ancestry suggests the following which might help resolve this and provide extra info on Thomas(es)
Ancestry
US passport applications for Thomas T Phillips 1795-1925
Pennsylvania marriages Thomas T Phillips and Ruth Phillips 1852-1968
Pennsylvania death certificates 1906-1967, there seems to be 2, Thomas Phillips with wife Ruth Davies and another with wife Ruth David
Thank you
Roy
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Thomas Philips Birth date 17 July 1832
Died 25 July 1900
You will find his burial on find a grave
Old Fellows Cemetery Schuylkill Pennsylvania
Baptism for Thomas Philips birthdate 17 July 1832
Llanelly Carmarthenshire
Father Daniel Philips
Mother Elizabeth Thomas
On some records he is listed as Thomas T Philips
Rosie
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Thanks very much again. The “T” as a middle name I would guess is I reference to his mother’s maiden surname of Thomas as the “D” as the middle name of some of their children a reference to Davies, their mother’s maiden name.
On a more general note, others say they emigrated about 1862 from Liverpool. If this were the case then they should be in the 1861 UK census but I can’t find them, can others? Thomas was born 1832 Llanelly, Ruth 1835 Llanelly and the 1870 US census has them having 3 children Ann (born 1856, possibly Aberdare), Daniel (1858), Elizabeth (1860). I can’t obviously find their births in the GRO indexes. The only one I think I have found is Elizabeth in the 1861 census living with her grandmother Elizabeth Phillips (nee Thomas) but now remarried to Thomas Davies, living at Furnace Llanelly:
Thomas Davies age 63 born Llanelly
Elizabeth Davies, wife, age 55 born Llanelly
Sarah Phillips, stepdaughter, age 17, born Llanelly
Elizabeth Phillips, granddaughter age 1, born Llanelly
In fact you could argue that Ruth Davies might be the daughter of Thomas Davies and she married Elizabeth’s son Thomas, but maybe that is a step too far. I have also tried searching for Ruth in earlier censuses but without much luck. It may be her as a visitor in 1851 in Merthyr Tydfil, to a Samuel Thomas (32) his wife Jane Thomas (nee Davies??) age 30, Mary Thomas age 2 and William Thomas age 5 mon
Any help on the above would be appreciated
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The death for Ruth Phillippe/Philips Schulykil Frackville P A
Death date 21 September 1911
Birth date 31 December 1834 Llanelly Wales
Father John Davis
Mother Ann Phillips
Informant of death her son Daniel D Phillips
Rosie
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Not having much luck with the 1861 census but did you check these births on Gro records
Ann Phillips 1856 Merthyr Tydfil mothers maiden name Davies
Daniel Phillips 1858 Merthyr Tydfil mmn Davies
Elizabeth Phillips 1860 Merthyr Tydfil mmn Davies
Rosie
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Not having much luck with the 1861 census but did you check these births on Gro records
Ann Phillips 1856 Merthyr Tydfil mothers maiden name Davies
Daniel Phillips 1858 Merthyr Tydfil mmn Davies
Elizabeth Phillips 1860 Merthyr Tydfil mmn Davies
Rosie
Looks spot on! Thank you
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Hi Rosie
I will also contact you separately but for those who might be following this thread.
You were spot on with the GRO birth entry for Elizabeth. Just received a copy of her certificate today which confirms her parents and birth date of 24 Apr 1860, as per US records. The family were living at Mill Street, Aberdare. Therefore might be worth looking for Mill Street, Aberdare in the 1861 census in case they are still there but maybe mistranscribed? If not there then it makes me think they emigrated in 1861, prior to the census, rather than in 1862 as other records suggest. US censuses were 1860 and 1870, which is why they don't appear in the US census until 1870.
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Still not seeing the family on 1861 census records did see this and thought it might be a possible immigration record
U S Atlantic Arriving and Departing Passenger lists
Ruth Philips age 28 born about 1835 listed as widow
Ann Philips age 6
Daniel Philips age 4
Eliza Philips infant
Arrival Portland and Falmouth Maine
Date 6 January 1863
Departure Liverpool
Ship Anglo Saxon
The ages all seem to fit in
Rosie
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Possible record for Thomas
Thos Phillips age 30
Place of birth Wales
Occupation miner
Departure Liverpool
Arrival date 15 September 1862 New York
Ship Parsons
Rosie
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Great spot, although Ruth listed as a widow must surely be an error. Perhaps her husband Thomas arrived before his wife and daughters in 1861/62 and send for his wife and children once settled. Perhaps he also did not want them coming over when the children, particularly Elizabeth were very young.
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Just seen your other post which seems to confirm this, things look to be tying up nicely, apart from their lack of entry in the 1861 census
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Have posted the details of Thomas think a lot of men went out first then their family followed
Yes I would say that's a mistake with her being a widow ;)
Rosie
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A bit late now will have a look tomorrow
Rosie
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Can anyone work out Thomas's address on his married certificate
? ? ?Works?, Llanelly
Thank you
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In the IronWorks?
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Not very sure Roy was looking to see where he was in 1851 >:(
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Not very sure Roy was looking to see where he was in 1851 >:(
His address was “Furnace” or Cwm Y Ddyche” in 1851
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something iron works, but not finding anything that looks like what's on the cert
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Lloyd5
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Not very sure Roy was looking to see where he was in 1851 >:(
His address was “Furnace” or Cwm Y Ddyche” in 1851
Found it ;)
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1851 address would appear to be Raby's Furnace
https://coflein.gov.uk/en/site/92882/details/rabys-furnace-cwmddyche-llanelli