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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Buffnut453 on Saturday 26 December 20 11:35 GMT (UK)
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I recently discovered that one of my Great (x4) uncles was convicted of murder in Chester in 1810 and sentenced to be hanged, with his body given for dissection and public display for 2 days.
From what I've been able to uncover, he was probably hanged just outside the New Gaol, south of Bedward Row. Given the proximity of the Chester General Infirmary, I'm guessing his body would have been dissected there.
I also note a nearby graveyard, just east of the New Gaol, in a later map (circa 1872) and I'm wondering if that might have been used for burials related to the Infirmary and perhaps the nearby fever hospital? The graveyard location, near where Nicholas Street intersects St.Martin's Way, still shows as a green area on GoogleEarth.
The following map chip shows the locations mentioned above. However, the relatively late date (1872) makes me wonder how much had changed in the area since my relative was executed in 1810.
I'd welcome any thoughts on whether I'm on the right track with this analysis. Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
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Not that it helps, but this map dates to 1805 - you can see there has been quite a lot of change over the decades:
https://picclick.com.au/Chester-England-United-Kingdom-1805-decorative-engraved-city-124080182575.html#&gid=1&pid=1
I don't know the answer to your question, but your theory sounds plausible though there may be other scenarios. I presume you have already checked newspapers of the time in case they give further details?
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Hi Ruskie,
Thanks for the response and the additional map. Although there are changes in the area, many details remain the same.
The Infirmary is clearly identifiable, and the area of the the New Gaol is shown as a blank space between the Infirmary and the Linen Hall. The New Gaol opened in 1808 so it's perhaps unsurprising that it isn't shown in a map of 1805.
The graveyard area also shows as a blank space in the 1805 map.
I agree there may be other scenarios to the one I've outlined. That's the real purpose behind my question.
Most of the details I've uncovered came from local newspapers. I'm just wondering if anyone is aware of studies on the disposal of dissection cadavers in Chester. I know other cities have performed archaeological digs on infirmary waste dumps and found all sorts of human remains.
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You might find something of interest on this website
https://www.criminalcorpses.com
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The “graveyard” now appears to be within the curtilage of the Queen’s School which itself sits on the site of the prison. You can visit the green space on Google Earth - theres a photo sphere point right in the middle of it which will give you a panoramic view.
My firet port of call would be the Cheshire Archives, which are less than half a mile down the road.
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You might find something of interest on this website
https://www.criminalcorpses.com
Thanks bearkat. It certainly provides some additional general background info on the practice of dissection. Unfortunately, it seems processes varied greatly by region, and so I need to dig into the the parties involved in the practice in Chester.
I think it's hard for us, with our modern sensibilities, to comprehend the spectacle of public executions and then, worse, public display of a dissected corpse.
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The “graveyard” now appears to be within the curtilage of the Queen’s School which itself sits on the site of the prison. You can visit the green space on Google Earth - theres a photo sphere point right in the middle of it which will give you a panoramic view.
My firet port of call would be the Cheshire Archives, which are less than half a mile down the road.
Appreciate the pointer, Ray T, but for some reason I can't see the photo sphere.
Wish I could get to the Cheshire Archives. Unfortunately, that's a bit hard at the moment and, since I don't live in the UK, I expect it will be some considerable time before I can visit in-person, regardless of the COVID situation.
I did take a quick browse around the Cheshire Archive's online records without much joy. Even the list of prisoners in Chester gaols fails to mention my relative. I'll see if I can find a "contact us" link in hopes someone on the receiving end might have some ideas for where to look.
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If the murder relates to a lady from Lymm, and the offender pleading his innocence -
Manchester Mercury, 8 May 1810
"... was taken in a cart, from the Castle, and about ten minutes past two o'clock was launched into eternity from the drop at the back of the new gaol, in that city."
Public viewing was allowed after dissection.
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If the murder relates to a lady from Lymm, and the offender pleading his innocence -
Manchester Mercury, 8 May 1810
"... was taken in a cart, from the Castle, and about ten minutes past two o'clock was launched into eternity from the drop at the back of the new gaol, in that city."
Public viewing was allowed after dissection.
Hi hanes teulu,
Yes, that's the one. I have all the newspaper reports of the arrest, trial, conviction and execution. I'm just wondering where the dissection took place and what happened to the body afterwards. Each region seemed to have different rules for how such sentences would be carried out.
I realize I'm asking a really obscure question, and it's more for personal interest than anything else. However, the medical organization that performed the dissection had to do something with the body because they couldn't keep it all indefinitely.
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I expect you've got this, but just in case....
The body was to be delivered to Griffith Rowlands, Surgeon, for dissection.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C34Q-6PF3?i=77&cat=345316
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I was drawn to the "public dissection" and was wondering how public was public?
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I expect you've got this, but just in case....
The body was to be delivered to Griffith Rowlands, Surgeon, for dissection.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C34Q-6PF3?i=77&cat=345316
Wow! Many thanks JenB. I hadn't seen that record. Not only does it give me a name, but reading the small handwriting at the bottom it appears to give a location.
If I'm reading it right, it says "The said Done died penitent but denied the murder - was dissected and anatomized in the Exchequer or Quarter Sessions room - now building but not compleat."
If I'm understanding the rather truncated language correctly, it sounds like Thomas Done's body was taken back to the Quarter Sessions room in the Shire Hall for dissection.
So the General Infirmary is off the list of locations where he would have been dissected. The next obvious question is what happened to his body? I'm guessing it was disposed of poorly given the disdain with which convicts were treated in those times.
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There's description of an 1812 execution at Chester Gaol
http://chester.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Execution_at_Chester
See "Edith Morrey"
One of the provisions of the 1752 Murder Act included " ... in no case whatsoever shall the body of any murderer be suffered to be buried."
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The “graveyard” now appears to be within the curtilage of the Queen’s School which itself sits on the site of the prison. You can visit the green space on Google Earth - theres a photo sphere point right in the middle of it which will give you a panoramic view.
My firet port of call would be the Cheshire Archives, which are less than half a mile down the road.
I’m looking at it on an iPad - haven’t tried it on the dektop.
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There's description of an 1812 execution at Chester Gaol
http://chester.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Execution_at_Chester
See "Edith Morrey"
One of the provisions of the 1752 Murder Act included " ... in no case whatsoever shall the body of any murderer be suffered to be buried."
Thanks for that pointer. It is entirely possible that the dissection was completed at the Infirmary and then the body transported for public display at the County Hall. Certainly, that seems a plausible explanation...plus it would allow for proper clean up of the corpse before display. Trying to perform a full dissection at the County Hall seems something of a stretch...at least it does to me.
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I’m looking at it on an iPad - haven’t tried it on the dektop.
I'll have to try other devices and see if I can glean any other details.
I do wonder if the young ladies realize that their school is sitting atop the former sites of a gallows and graveyard. Hope they're not squeamish.
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Prisoners were usually buried in jail graveyards and murderers could not be buried in consecrated ground.
In my lifetime bodies could be legally dissected by surgeons if a patient died in a teaching hospital (where selected body parts would be placed in pickling jars), or if the body was that of a murderer.
Originally there were two official types of surgeons = barber surgeon and the medical surgeon. As surgeons were not paid by the taxpayer, he would probably charge a fee for viewing the dissection. Presumably the date would be published for thde public viewing and a large enough room would have to b e organised. As the public in general knew what lay in store for murdering somebody = public hanging and public dissection this knowledge was supposed to deter people from commiting such acts.
Below are a couple of links explaining the various Legal Acts, but you need local knowledge for which graveyard.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4582158/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK384645/
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I’m looking at it on an iPad - haven’t tried it on the dektop.
I'll have to try other devices and see if I can glean any other details.
I do wonder if the young ladies realize that their school is sitting atop the former sites of a gallows and graveyard. Hope they're not squeamish.
You could always write and ask them. Along the lines of - “I am researching the lifeof my ancestor who was hanged on the site of your school in .....”.
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ANATOMISATION AND DISSECTION
https://www.criminalcorpses.com/anatomisation-dissection
Also check "Full Blog" within article.
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Quoting from "The History of the County Palatine of Chester" by J.H.Hanshall, 1823:
"The bodies of executed criminals are generally interred in the Castle-ditch, beneath the wall of St. Mary's Church-yard, at the south-west corner".
It does say generally, so I'm not sure if this would apply to the remains after dissection.
Ray
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Prisoners were usually buried in jail graveyards and murderers could not be buried in consecrated ground.
In my lifetime bodies could be legally dissected by surgeons if a patient died in a teaching hospital (where selected body parts would be placed in pickling jars), or if the body was that of a murderer.
Originally there were two official types of surgeons = barber surgeon and the medical surgeon. As surgeons were not paid by the taxpayer, he would probably charge a fee for viewing the dissection. Presumably the date would be published for thde public viewing and a large enough room would have to b e organised. As the public in general knew what lay in store for murdering somebody = public hanging and public dissection this knowledge was supposed to deter people from commiting such acts.
Below are a couple of links explaining the various Legal Acts, but you need local knowledge for which graveyard.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4582158/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK384645/
Many thanks, Rena. I'm definitely in need of local knowledge...unfortunately, gaining such is challenging at present with so many archives/museums closed (plus I live overseas, which further complicates in-person visits).
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You could always write and ask them. Along the lines of - “I am researching the lifeof my ancestor who was hanged on the site of your school in .....”.
Yep...I clicked on the "Contact Us" link to do precisely that. I'll provide an update on any response.
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ANATOMISATION AND DISSECTION
https://www.criminalcorpses.com/anatomisation-dissection
Also check "Full Blog" within article.
Thanks for the link. It certainly provides some useful generic background on the practice of dissection. It seems my relative suffered a partial dissection first, and was put on display before a full dissection was completed. I'll need to pore over the details in the Criminal Corpses website and see what other details it might reveal to help my quest.
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Quoting from "The History of the County Palatine of Chester" by J.H.Hanshall, 1823:
"The bodies of executed criminals are generally interred in the Castle-ditch, beneath the wall of St. Mary's Church-yard, at the south-west corner".
It does say generally, so I'm not sure if this would apply to the remains after dissection.
Ray
Ray,
That's a brilliant piece of information which certainly affords one possibility as a burial site for my relative. A quick study on GoogleEarth revealed that the location is quite easy to find, even today. I really appreciate this pointer. Many, MANY thanks indeed.
Kind regards,
Mark
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I expect you've got this, but just in case....
The body was to be delivered to Griffith Rowlands, Surgeon, for dissection.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C34Q-6PF3?i=77&cat=345316
Hi Jen,
Dumb question but what search criteria did you use to find that record? I've tried various options iN FamilySearch with no joy to-date.
Many thanks,
Mark
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You cannot find it in a general FS search.
You need to go to the 'Catalog Search' https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog
Enter 'Chester' and select the one in Cheshire!
The resulting list includes 'Correctional Institutions' This is where I found the record I linked to.
Only records with a camera icon without a key over them are viewable at home, and you need to be logged in. The registration process is free and only takes a couple of minutes. There is a wealth of information 'hidden' in the Catalog search which doesn't show up in a general 'Historical Records' person search.
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Brilliant! Thanks Jen. There's certainly a TON of information in the catalog...but it's hard to track down specifics. The records I examined didn't appear to be in date order. However, really appreciate the pointer.