RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Pricey4848 on Monday 04 January 21 19:09 GMT (UK)

Title: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: Pricey4848 on Monday 04 January 21 19:09 GMT (UK)
Trying to find the birth and wedding of William Almond (Allmond) who is shown as born Middlewich c1840.

His wife was called Margaret born around 1852 in Lymm (Nothing on Margaret before 1881).

I have them living in Manchester in 1881 census and Margaret is a widow by 1891.

William and Margaret had following children: Hannah (1874 B Lymm) George ( 1877 B Lymm) Elizabeth ( 1879 B Manchester) William (1885 B MCR) Harry (1890 B MCR)

Thanks
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 19:33 GMT (UK)
Have you considered
William Almond
Marr 1860
TO
Margaret Ellen Allenden,
Consider Almond for sure

Louisa Maud
PS Williams birth 1840, Margaret date of birth  shown on a family tree , her date of birth is shown as 1850, surely she didn't marry at 10.?.
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 19:57 GMT (UK)
Pricey, don't feel comfortable with information above, found a William and Margaret on 1881, William aged 41 and Margaret aged 31, plus children sure if there are 2 families  with similar names

LM
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 20:02 GMT (UK)
THERE SEEMS TO BE A PREVIOUS  TOPIC ON ALMOND FAMILIES

LM
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Monday 04 January 21 21:36 GMT (UK)
if you check the scan of the 1881 census then entry for George looks more like 11 than 4 and would a 4 year old be noted as scholar?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-6537

George shows as 29 on the 1901 census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9LY-3ZF

Possibly this family in Lymm in 1871?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBXL-TV9

Marriage 12 Feb 1866 in the parish church of Lymm
William Horman full age bach boatman Lymm father James Horman stone mason
Margaret Harrison 19 spinster Lymm father John Harrison labourer
witnesses Robert(?) Hewitt & Mary Miller, only Robert signs.

Birth regs
George Horman sept qtr 1870 Altrincham vol 8a pg 179 mmn Harrison
Hannah Allman march qtr 1874 Altrincham vol 8a pg 197 mmn Harrison
Elizabeth Allman march qtr 1880 Manchester vol 8d pg 274 mmn Harrison

Hannah baptised 8 May 1874 in Lymm daughter of William Allmond, boatman, & Margaret
Also Sarah Ann baptised 7 July 1872 daughter of William Allman, labourer, & Margaret
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: softly softly on Monday 04 January 21 21:42 GMT (UK)
osprey, just been down exactly the same route as you. Just to add in 1891 census there are William c 1885 (born mq 1885 mmn Harrison) & Harry c1890, (born sq 1889 mmn Harrison)

John

added, there was a Sarah Ann Allman born mq 1872 mmn Harrison.
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Monday 04 January 21 21:49 GMT (UK)
Glad I'm not out on a limb!   :D


Burial 1 Feb 1880 in Lymm for Sarah Ann Ormond - another variant.
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: softly softly on Monday 04 January 21 21:50 GMT (UK)
Just on the lighter side of this post it started with Almond/Allmond, Margaret on 1891 census is transcribed on Anc* as ALLNUTT :D

John
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 21:52 GMT (UK)
And there was I loking for Almond/Allmond

LM
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: softly softly on Monday 04 January 21 21:56 GMT (UK)
And I thought LM you were switching off with a glass of vino.  :)

John
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: louisa maud on Monday 04 January 21 22:03 GMT (UK)
Good idea John but it won't help me sleep

LM
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Monday 04 January 21 22:09 GMT (UK)
I've just found a family of 5 Almon children in Northwich all noted as illegitimate on the census in the occupation column, transcribed on FindMyPast as Magistrate even for the 1 year old! RG9/2607 folio 53 pg 2

 ::)
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: softly softly on Monday 04 January 21 22:11 GMT (UK)
Possible birth for Margaret

Births Sep 1848   mother's maiden name  Leigh
HARRISON    Margaret        Altrincham    19   20

Possible marriage of parents

Marriages Sep 1838   
DAWSON    Joseph        Altrincham    19   4    
HANKINSON    Sarah        Altrincham    19   4   
HARRISON    John        Altrincham    19   4    
LEIGH    Sarah        Altrincham    19   4    
PERRY    Elizabeth        Altrincham    19   4    
SCHOFIELD    James        Altrincham    19   4    
WALTON    Alice        Altrincham    19   4    
WARBURTON    Thomas        Altrincham    19   4    

John


Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Monday 04 January 21 22:27 GMT (UK)
so this family in 1861

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7KS-GWW

Margaret was a fustian cutter on the 1871 census as well.

 ;)
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Monday 04 January 21 22:30 GMT (UK)
I should have checked the 1871 census more closely. William, Margaret and young George were at the top of one page and widowed Sarah was the last entry on the previous page.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBXL-TJB
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: softly softly on Monday 04 January 21 22:31 GMT (UK)
Yep.

J
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Monday 04 January 21 22:42 GMT (UK)
baptism in Lymm 3 Sept 1848 for Margaret daughter of John Harrison, labourer, & Sarah.

parish marriage 13 Sept 1838 parish church of Bowden
John Harrison full age bach labourer Bollington father's details blank
Sarah Leigh full age spinster Bollington father Peter Leigh labourer
Both mark, witnesses Henry Service and Elizabeth Harrison both sign.
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: Tall Al on Thursday 07 January 21 09:27 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Don't know if this makes much sense but using the surname Horman (which was transcribed on his wedding certificate in 1866) I can find a couple of variants for William which may be of interest.

1841 surname Hersom - living in Wheelock Street, Middlewich with parents James and Mary
1851 no sign of William but using a sister Maria (Born 1836) surname is shown as Husom - she becomes a Challinor). Looks like James had died c1845 and widow Mary was in Middlewich with 2 daughters.
1861 currently no trace of William but in 1871 his surname now showing as Herman.

There is also a baptism on 15 May 1840 using the surname Heesom at Middlewich which appears to tie in to 1841 census.

Over to you!

Alan
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Thursday 07 January 21 10:29 GMT (UK)
think that William may be the grandson of James & Mary

1841 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7MB-42V

baptism 15 May 1840 son of Mary, spinster

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DYW2-R9?i=421

Mary was baptised 20 Feb 1820 daughter of James, publican, & Mary

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NH8W-TW5

but there's a burial 15 Feb 1843 for a 3 year old William Walter Heesom

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-63XZ-PR

There is this William from 1851 census.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG2X-Q9G

He's not leaping out of other records. The only other record I've found so far for Elias is his marriage in 1867 when his occupation is boatman as was William's on his marriage.

 :-\
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Thursday 07 January 21 11:55 GMT (UK)
think this family could be worth another look.

The George, son of Mary, transcribed as 16 but shows as 6 on the census, was baptised 7 Jan 1844 in Middlewich
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TY-46X

George in 1861 census - boatman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWMC-WDL

George in 1871 census - boatman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBX8-S49

James was baptised 2 May 1849
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TY-6ZK

James in 1881 census - boatman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q272-VDMY

I wonder if this could be William's baptism at Sandbach? Hannah's abode noted as Betchton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQT9-WMG

Thomas is on the 1871 census twice, once at Newton Boat Common
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBFP-332
also occupation boatman in Kinderton with mother Hannah who is housekeeper to James Hough, bricklayer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBFG-PLN

Could James Hough be the inspiration for William's father on the marriage registration?

Parish entry for marriage below
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F7D5-D1N

 :-\

Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: Tall Al on Friday 08 January 21 19:27 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I think you are on to something with the Allman posts.

William's 1842 christening  details show his mother Hannah's abode as Malkins Bank - this is a canalside community between Wheelock and Middlewich on the Trent & Mersey Canal. She is shown as a Spinster. 

Hannah and her sister Mary, were christened in Middlewich (1820 and 1825 respectively) - father was Elias

If you do a name search for Allman on boatfamilies.website - whilst it doesn't specify the Middlewich Allman family it shows 52 Allman family members active on the north west canal network.

Alan

Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Friday 08 January 21 20:35 GMT (UK)
that seems to tie in them.  ;)

Hannah's baptism with image shows Elias as shoemaker

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TR-LJM

and Mary's

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TT-9G6

Several more children to the couple in Middlewich
William 1809
Ann 1811
Sarah 1813
Betsy & Thomas 1816
Elias 1822

Elias noted as shoemaker on the new style registers except for the baptisms for Betsy & Thomas where he is a boatman
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TR-XH5

Elias Almond married Mary Taylor in Middlewich 27 Dec 1808
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NH89-999

Elias in 1861
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGR5-WHD

and has a new wife by 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7XB-QGZ
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Monday 11 January 21 20:53 GMT (UK)
was any of this helpful, Pricey4848? You've been on the boards but there's been no reply.


Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: Pricey4848 on Wednesday 13 January 21 10:21 GMT (UK)
was any of this helpful, Pricey4848? You've been on the boards but there's been no reply.

Its been amazing and a little mind blowing...ive been working through it to try and make sense of it all so thank you all for your input......i think i stick to rigidly to exact surname spellings and dont make enough allowances for mis spelling in transcribing etc...
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: Pricey4848 on Wednesday 13 January 21 10:41 GMT (UK)
if you check the scan of the 1881 census then entry for George looks more like 11 than 4 and would a 4 year old be noted as scholar?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27P-6537

George shows as 29 on the 1901 census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9LY-3ZF

Possibly this family in Lymm in 1871?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBXL-TV9

Marriage 12 Feb 1866 in the parish church of Lymm
William Horman full age bach boatman Lymm father James Horman stone mason
Margaret Harrison 19 spinster Lymm father John Harrison labourer
witnesses Robert(?) Hewitt & Mary Miller, only Robert signs.

Birth regs
George Horman sept qtr 1870 Altrincham vol 8a pg 179 mmn Harrison
Hannah Allman march qtr 1874 Altrincham vol 8a pg 197 mmn Harrison
Elizabeth Allman march qtr 1880 Manchester vol 8d pg 274 mmn Harrison

Hannah baptised 8 May 1874 in Lymm daughter of William Allmond, boatman, & Margaret
Also Sarah Ann baptised 7 July 1872 daughter of William Allman, labourer, & Margaret

I know the 1901 census is correct because its my Grandmother Margaret Almond`s (B 1907) family (sisters and parents)
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Wednesday 13 January 21 14:51 GMT (UK)
yes, it's the correct family, doesn't mean that the age is totally correct. There's often variance in ages on census entries as well as variants of surnames. Birthdays weren't celebrated than as now and little need to know how old a person was.

Rather than black and white, there's a lot of grey areas when you're researching family history.

 ;)
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: Pricey4848 on Friday 15 January 21 18:56 GMT (UK)
All
Thanks you again so much for your knowledge...you are levels ahead of my ability!!

I've been reviewing all the information and hopefully below is correct as my understanding:

Gpong from youngest to oldest:

George Almond married Elizabeth Barnes

George`s parents were: William Almond B c1840  and Margaret Harrison c1852

William c1840 has a number of variations of his surname such as Horman/Allman/Hersom/Heesom but all in and about Middlewich Parish.

William c1840 mother is Mary Heeson (spinster) and is baptised 1841.

Mary`s parents are James Heesom (c1777-1781) and Mary (c1778-1791)

No father identified for William c1840.

Margaret Harrison c1852 parents are John Harrison (c1804) and Sarah Leigh (c1815) who marry in Bowden 1838.

Have I understood all the information correctly??  Thanks
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Friday 15 January 21 20:05 GMT (UK)
Yes, apart from the Heesom link. That William Heesom died as an infant.

William would seem to be the son of Hannah Allman+variants baptised 30 May 1842 at Sandbach

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQT9-WMG

Hannah is the daughter of Elias & Mary and was baptised 21 May 1820 in Middlewich

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TR-LJM

Elias Almond married Mary Taylor 27 Dec 1808 in Middlewich

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NH89-999
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Friday 15 January 21 20:35 GMT (UK)
Parish entry for the marriage of William & Margaret is on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F7D5-D1V

Baptism for Margaret Harrison 3 Sept 1848
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F7D2-BYP

Baptism for Elias Allman 7 Dec 1788 in Middlewich
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQZB-4HS
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: Pricey4848 on Sunday 17 January 21 15:19 GMT (UK)
Yes, apart from the Heesom link. That William Heesom died as an infant.

William would seem to be the son of Hannah Allman+variants baptised 30 May 1842 at Sandbach

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQT9-WMG

Hannah is the daughter of Elias & Mary and was baptised 21 May 1820 in Middlewich

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3TR-LJM

Elias Almond married Mary Taylor 27 Dec 1808 in Middlewich

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NH89-999

So my William Almond c1840 is son of Hannah with no father identifed so took mother`s name obviously.

Hannah is daughter of Elias c1788 and Mary Taylor

Elias c1788 ends up living in Manchester 1861 and 1871

Where does James Heesom c 1771-1781 and his wife Mary then feature??   

I initially presumed they were William c1840 grandparents but that cant be correct if Hannah is his mum and his grandparents are Elias & Mary given he has no father identifed anywhere.

It does seem a big variation to me the names Almond to Heesom...I get Allman and maybe Horman but struggle with Hersom / Heesom as variants ...
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Sunday 17 January 21 15:21 GMT (UK)
forget the Heesoms, they are not linked.

 ;D
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: Pricey4848 on Monday 18 January 21 12:08 GMT (UK)
Parish entry for the marriage of William & Margaret is on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F7D5-D1V

Baptism for Margaret Harrison 3 Sept 1848
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F7D2-BYP

Baptism for Elias Allman 7 Dec 1788 in Middlewich
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQZB-4HS

Osprey
On the wedding entry for William and Margaret above James`s name is recorded as Horman and not Allmond / Almond/Allman...he is shown with a father called James Horman but i thought we established my James`s mother was Hannah Almond and we didnt know who his father was so he took Hannah`s surbame (Almond) ???
Title: Re: William Almond (Allmond) Born Middlewich C1840
Post by: osprey on Monday 18 January 21 14:34 GMT (UK)
Something to bear in mind is that a blank where the father's name should be was often filled with a little white lie. The name was sometimes inspired by the name of a grandfather or the man who was the father figure in the household. Another thing you may see is the actual first name of the father but with the same surname as the person marrying, again to cover up illegitimacy.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBFG-PLN

This 1871 census for William's mother, Hannah, and brother, Thomas, shows her as housekeeper to James Hough, a bricklayer. This is why I suggested that this James could be the inspiration for James the mason on William's marriage cert. Housekeeper is quite often the word used when a couple are living together but not married, possibly can't marry as one of them is already married to someone else.

What you find on certificates and census entries is only part of a picture and should not be assumed to be totally accurate. You need to look at everything you can find to build up the most likely background for a person. There may be differences in implied dates of birth from census entries, differences in places of birth, variants of surnames. it all adds to the fun!

 ;D