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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: liscoole on Tuesday 05 January 21 19:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am wondering if anyone can help please.
From Army enlistment records I have managed to get James Wilkinson's approximate month of birth and his birth parish.
Does anyone know if St Mary's RC parish records can be accessed online?
His father was James Wilkinson mother's name unknown. He states in his army enlistment records his occupation at time of enlistment is Coal Miner. He married Annie McKee 2nd October 1895 in Belfast.
Any help tracing his parents would be really appreciated
thanks
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There is only one 1871 entry born in Wigan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD6R-3JV
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If he was born January 1871 his birth (if registered) would be in March qtr 1871 but there is no registration in Wigan
There are 2 registrations in Dec qtr 1870 mothers maiden names Grimshaw & Lowe
Mary Grimshaw married James Wilkinson Sept qtr 1861 Wigan 8c 28
At the moment there is no proof these were the parents of your James. You need to check later censuses for James
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Thanks Carole. Its such a mystery. He appears in the 1901 census in the barracks in Cork as a soldier.
He said on his enlistment forms that he was a coal miner or collier. I just cannot seem to trace him in any census pre 1901.
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Have you the marriage for him to see if that gives any more info or was that where father's name came from?
What occupation did his father have?
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Can’t see a 1901 entry in Cork.. There is a 32 yr old b England but he was a librarian
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He was in fort hill barracks on 1901 census, gave age as 30, previous trade collier.
I do have the marriage certificate, it states his father was James Wilkinson, profession Brewer.
His daughter Adeline was born September 1897 when his regiment 2nd Dorset was stationed there. The birth certificate states that James’s father was not alive on that date.
I hope that’s useful.
Thank you for your help!
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Do you have him in 1911.
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Hi
He died in 1906 in Belfast, so sadly not on 1911 census. Trying to find him on 81 or 91.
Many thanks
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Can you give details of the 1901 census as I can't find him either.
Annette
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Is this the entry? Just shown as J Wilkinson
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000539351/
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From Army enlistment records I have managed to get James Wilkinson's approximate month of birth and his birth parish.
Are you able to give the link to these records please
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He died in 1906 in Belfast
Perhaps in 1907
Died 6 May, The Mater Hospital
James Wilkinson, from 24 Fortingale St
Married
age 35 years
Army Pensioner
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05533/4550912.pdf
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Can you give details of the 1901 census as I can't find him either.
Annette
Hi Annette
this is the link
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Kinsale_Rural/Fort_Hill/1121812/
many thanks
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Is this the entry? Just shown as J Wilkinson
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000539351/
yes that's him!
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He died in 1906 in Belfast
Perhaps in 1907
Died 6 May, The Mater Hospital
James Wilkinson, from 24 Fortingale St
Married
age 35 years
Army Pensioner
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05533/4550912.pdf
yes that is him, I have that record. Im just trying to find his parents, or find him in the 81 or 91 census,
thanks
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From Army enlistment records I have managed to get James Wilkinson's approximate month of birth and his birth parish.
Are you able to give the link to these records please
Hi
See link to his enlistment- incorrectly transcribed as Nican ( Wigan, Lancs)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/3383/images/40944_b131805-00064?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=bWu135&_phstart=successSource&pId=1069
many thanks
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Hi
I think there are Chelsea Pensioner Records for him, but i cannot access them as my membership is not premium
ame: James Wilkinson
Discharge Age: 35
Birth Date: abt 1871
Discharge Year: 1906
Regiment: The Sherwood Forrstero
Regimental Number: 10047
Although it mentions the Sherwood Forresters, he originally enlisted in the 2nd Dorset Regiment in 1892.
can anyone access these?
many thanks
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Hi
I think there are Chelsea Pensioner Records for him, but i cannot access them as my membership is not premium
ame: James Wilkinson
Discharge Age: 35
Birth Date: abt 1871
Discharge Year: 1906
Regiment: The Sherwood Forrstero
Regimental Number: 10047
Although it mentions the Sherwood Forresters, he originally enlisted in the 2nd Dorset Regiment in 1892.
can anyone access these?
many thanks
Trade Shoemaker so not the same person ? I suspect that could be the trade he learnt while serving :-\
ADDED
Intended place of residence Holwood, Belfast
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I have just continued looking at the following pages of that record, they then have James Wilkinson in the Dorset reg. They can be viewed on FindMyPast
ADDED Next of kin Margaret Hinds (Sister) 46 Greenhough Street, Wigan
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Could this be Margaret though the dates don't tie up
1901
William Hinds 25 occ Fruit Hawker bn Liverpool, Lancashire
Margaret Hinds 28 bn Wigan, Lancashire
Joseph Hinds Son 2 bn Wigan, Lancashire
William Barton Boarder 24 occ Fruit Hawker bn Wigan, Lancashire
RG13
Piece 3564
Folio 97
Page 31
Birth reg of son
HINDS, JOSEPH mmn WILKINSON
GRO Reference: 1899 June Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 71
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Marriage: 18 Aug 1897 St Thomas, Wigan, Lancashire, England
William Hinds - (X), 21, Hawker, Bachelor, 81 Queen Street
Margaret Wilkinson - 23, Spinster, 107 Caroline Street
Groom's Father: William Hinds, Hawker
Bride's Father: Joseph Wilkinson, Collier
Witness: James Turner; Mary Knowles
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The Saxon family are at 46 Greenough St, Wigan in 1891/1901 etc
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https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=6598&h=22867851&tid=&pid=&queryId=30cfb0c9d538721278e9d270da4ca5be&usePUB=true&_phsrc=HQq12&_phstart=successSource
I believe this could be James Wilkinson, located in the South Front Barracks, Dover 1891.
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https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=6598&h=22867851&tid=&pid=&queryId=30cfb0c9d538721278e9d270da4ca5be&usePUB=true&_phsrc=HQq12&_phstart=successSource
I believe this could be James Wilkinson, located in the South Front Barracks, Dover 1891.
There are service records for a James Wilkinson who joined the Border regt (no 800) in November 1884 age 18 2/12, born Wigan, he died in 1934.
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Hi
I think there are Chelsea Pensioner Records for him, but i cannot access them as my membership is not premium
ame: James Wilkinson
Discharge Age: 35
Birth Date: abt 1871
Discharge Year: 1906
Regiment: The Sherwood Forrstero
Regimental Number: 10047
Although it mentions the Sherwood Forresters, he originally enlisted in the 2nd Dorset Regiment in 1892.
can anyone access these?
many thanks
Trade Shoemaker so not the same person ? I suspect that could be the trade he learnt while serving :-\
ADDED
Intended place of residence Holwood, Belfast
Hi Rosie
Thanks for that. Im fairly certain that is him, he was stationed in Northern Ireland at Victoria Barracks and also there were barracks at Holywood. He married a lady from Carlingford, Co Down and they eventually settled in North Belfast. So I really think they are the right records.
Well done in finding Margaret!!! This could be the key to finding his roots! Though he said in every offical document that his father's name was James. Interesting!
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I am sure that both of those records I looked at are him. The original attestation was the one that had next of kin on, that also mentioned Annie and the children. The Sherwood Forrester record also connected to the date of leaving in 1906.
Jas. is often used as a shortened form of James and Jos. for Joseph. I wonder if somehow one has been mistranscribed.
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The Family is Catholic, from what is seen on James Wilkinson's Army Service Census. Therefore His Father, James, could be using a Catholic Baptism middle name, Joseph ? or vice versa. Could James Junior be doing the same, therefore the difficulty in finding His Wigan Birth.
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HI Sandblown
This could very well be correct!
His daughter was born in Malta September 1897. She was named Adeline Josephine Annie Wilkinson.
So the name Joseph must factor in somewhere of importance.
I will try searching for Joseph Wilkinson instead of James as his father in census records.
Many thanks
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I am sure that both of those records I looked at are him. The original attestation was the one that had next of kin on, that also mentioned Annie and the children. The Sherwood Forrester record also connected to the date of leaving in 1906.
Jas. is often used as a shortened form of James and Jos. for Joseph. I wonder if somehow one has been mistranscribed.
Rosie you could well be right! Thank you for that. Now I just need to search the census with this information. many thanks
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James Sister, Margaret, is on the Wigan 1881 Census, living with Father Joseph Wilkinson, Mother Betsy ( Elizabeth), and Siblings. James not there. What's interesting They are living at 79 Queen Street, next door to the Hind's ? at 81 Queen Street.
ADD: Have misread Hind, for Hurd.
ADD: Same address on 1891 Census. Next door at 81, Occupied by Henry Hurst.
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James Sister, Margaret, is on the Wigan 1881 Census, living with Father Joseph Wilkinson, Mother Betsy ( Elizabeth), and Siblings. James not there. What's interesting They are living at 79 Queen Street, next door to the Hind's ? at 81 Queen Street.
ADD: Have misread Hind, for Hurd.
ADD: Same address on 1891 Census. Next door at 81, Occupied by Henry Hurst.
Thanks. I dont understand why he names Margaret as his sister but yet he is not on any census with the rest of the family. I have managed to find all the children of the marriage of Elizabeth Hurst and Joseph Wilkinson and they never had a son called James or even a male child around 1870/71
Am starting to think that James may have been illegitimate though why he names Margaret as his sister is a real mystery to me...
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It is strange that his sister Margaret was mentioned as next of kin if his parents were still alive ::)
The Margaret Wilkinson marriage does tie in with the family in Queen Street and by 1901 at 107 Caroline Street the address she gives at marriage.
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I'm wondering if Margaret was really James Sister, and not another Relative, Cousin perhaps ?
If James Father real name is James, and not Joseph, then could James Senior be a Brother of Joseph ?
I also think James Senior's Occupation might be Hewer, not Brewer, as in Coal Hewer.
ADD: However, If James Senior was a Brewer, then He could have worked for the Albion Brewery Comp., located at Hardybutts, Wigan.
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I also wonder if James was illegitimate and father was fictitious.
Is his marriage certificate image available anywhere :-\
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Is his marriage certificate image available anywhere :-\
2 October 1895, Belfast
James age 24, Soldier
Father James Wilkinson, Brewer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1895/10541/5839750.pdf
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Annie Wilkinson and two children in Cork in 1901
Daughter born Malta, as said
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Kinsale_Rural/Fort_Hill/1121800/
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Thank you John ;D
Rosie
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You're welcome, Rosie.
Well done for finding the military papers and Margaret :)
Widowed Annie Wilkinson in 1911, boarding in Belfast with the two children
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001406230/
John
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Hi
Yes. Thank you to everyone who has chipped in for your help and time with this. It really is a mystery.
I have the marriage certificate. 2nd October 1895.
St Patrick's RC chapel Belfast.James Wilkinson married Annie McKee. His age 24 her age 23. His profession soldier hers cook. His address Victoria Barracks hers New Lodge Road Belfast.
Below is from the marriage cert- to me it looks very like brewer?
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/f197/liscoole/jw_marriage(1).jpg)
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I am wondering, he states his birth Parish as St Mary's RC in Wigan.
Does anyone know if these parish records are available on line? This may have been where he was baptised. I am at a loss to find a registered birth entry in the General Register for him.
Again, my thanks to everyone for their hard work in this thread, it's very much appreciated.
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Briefly returning to the Margaret that was found in Queen Street, her sister Alice was baptised C of E
Baptism: 20 Feb 1881 St Thomas, Wigan, Lancashire
Alice Wilkinson - parents Joseph Wilkinson & Elizabeth
Born 7 Feb 1881
Abode Queen Street
Fathers occupation Collier
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Hi Rosie
Thanks for that. Yes I notice that family were not RC. I am puzzled regarding the connection between Margaret and James.
Looking at a few baptism records I see that there was a St Mary's in Ince. I also see a record there of a James Henry born to James and Ann 22nd Jan 1875, baptised there in 1890.
However that would make him a full 4 years younger than he claimed to be in all paperwork. Also father's occupation does not match.
The reason I am drawn to this record is that he named his first son James Henry, and this is a name which was continued down 3 generations or more.
I wonder why he would have claimed to be RC?
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One of My Wife's English Ancesters was Formally Registered and CofE Baptised John (Surname), in England.
He married an Irish RC Girl in Kidare, and prior to the Marriage, had converted to RC, in Kildare.
He was RC Baptised John Joseph (Surname), and that forename carried forward on to both His Irish Marriage and Death Certificates.
Therefore, it's also possible James Wilkinson converted to RC, just prior to the Irish RC Marriage.
I managed to locate John Joseph's Irish RC Baptism, there may also be one for James Wilkinson in Ireland.
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Hi Sandblown
Thanks, that is a good theory. However, it states on his enlistment papers that he was RC, which was in 1892. It was only when his regiment moved to Victoria barracks in Northern Ireland that he met and married Annie, who was also RC. This would have been c 1894/5.
It appears he may have had some cause to leave his family, or disown them, to cause him to lie about his next of kin on the enlistment papers.
I did find a James Wilkinson b 1871 Orell, Lancs in the 1891 census living with Thos and Elizabeth, who seem old enough to be grandparents (62/63) though they are described as parents. All colliers.
This might possibly be him, though I haven’t checked to see if he appears in 1901/1911 ( in which case if he does, it’s not the right person).
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Aw well, another theory out the window !
This is certainly a good mystery.
By the way, I thought James Wilkinson Senior's Occupation of Brewer, might have been misheard. There seems to be more Coal Miners in Wigan, than Beer Brewers, thats why I thought a Coal Hewer would be most likely.
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You have probably looked into this.
I notice that James Wilkinson Enlisted with an associate from Wigan, Their Service Numbers are consecutive.
This being a James Connell(y), born 1871, St Mary's, Wigan.
Have You tried to make a connection, with the two, back in Wigan, before They joined up together ?
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Aw well, another theory out the window !
This is certainly a good mystery.
By the way, I thought James Wilkinson Senior's Occupation of Brewer, might have been misheard. There seems to be more Coal Miners in Wigan, than Beer Brewers, thats why I thought a Coal Hewer would be most likely.
Lol yes it has been my brick wall for 8 years now!!! And your point about brewer/ hewer makes perfect sense!
I’m just astounded by the number of lies/ inaccuracies this ancestor has made! Would love to know why he thought such secrecy was necessary!
I will check into James Connolly, that is another good line of thinking, thanks!
Edit... can anyone give me James Connolly’s date of birth from his enlistment records?
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liscoole, the 1897 Marriage of Margaret Wilkinson to William Hinds. Note Her age of 23, and Her Address of Caroline Street.
Lancashire OPC Baptisms
Margaret Wilkinson b.11 May 1868, bapt. 12 Jul 1868, St.Thomas Wigan
Father Joseph, Mother Elizabeth, Occupation Collier, Address Queen Street Wigan.
Margaret Wilkinson b. 5 August 1875, bapt. 5th Sept 1875, Christ Church Ince.
Father Joseph, Mother Elizabeth, Occupation Collier, Address Caroline Street
Margaret Wilkinson b. 29 Dec 1873, bapt. 1 Mar 1874, St Thomas Wigan.
Father Joseph, Mother Elizabeth, Occupation Collier, Address 9 Ironmonger Lane.
ADD: William Wilkinson b. 12 May 1870, bapt 12 Jun 1870, St Thomas Wigan
Father Joseph, Mother Elizabeth, Occupation Collier, Address Pump Yard (Off Queen Street) Wigan
There's quite a lot Joseph and Elizabeth Wilkinson Births and Baptisms, between Ince and Wigan.
In the OPC Search Field, for a Baptism, I just had the Surname Wilkinson, Father Joseph Wilkinson, Mother Elizabeth, and search date 1878 +/- 10 years.
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Thank you Sandblown for finding these for me. I appreciate it.
It’s interesting that there are two entries for Margaret Wilkinson.
Do you know if Ince is part of Wigan? Is it near to these addresses listed below?
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Around the 1870s, Ince In Makerfield was a Chapelry, in Wigan Parish. In is now part of the Metropolitan Borough of Wigan. It is located South East of the two Streets, Google Maps Refer.
On Google Maps, Caroline Street and Queen Street run in parallel to one another, so it makes sense for Me to wonder, whether Joseph and Elizabeth Wilkinson lived at all those addresses, at some point, and all the Margaret's were born to Them. I assume some deaths might be recorded. I did notice another J&E Wilkinson Child born in Caroline Street, on the Lancashire OPC, and Baptised at Christ Church, Ince. Similarly, J&E Wilkinson's living at Ironmonger Lane and a Baptism at All Saints, Wigan.
If it is the same Wilkinson Family, I cannot understand why They switched Baptisms from St Thomas's to Christ Church, Ince and All Saints, Wigan.
ADD: Ironmonger Lane is also off Queen Street.
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Sandblown, thank you so much for your work on this and your valuable insights!
I have found the Wigan world website which gives burial records for this area. I will have a look tomorrow to see if this yields any further info.
Thanks again!
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You're welcome, and good luck with Your further research.
Just to add, James Connell(y) who signed up at the same time as James Wilkinson, was aged 21.
Sandblown.
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Deleted, requires further investigation.