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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Tuesday 05 January 21 23:05 GMT (UK)
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I'm really struggling with this chap, a direct ancestor and brickwall.
I haven't found a baptism and only have his marriage cert which is almost worthless in terms of information.
Marriage 18 May 1848 Parish Church, Tynemouth
John Irvin "of full age", occ; mariner, bachelor, son of John Irvin, occ; sawyer
Elizabeth Boag "a minor", spinster, dau of Richard Boag occ; waterman
He isn't with the family in 1851 or 1861 though Elizabeth is recorded as married. In 1871 she is a widow and head of the house.
The birth index shows an Elizabeth Ann Irvin mmn Boag born Tynemouth district in 1867, she appears in the 1871 mentioned above.
Two main issues are that I have no real clue when John was born and can't pin down a death.
I'm stuck with the 1848 marriage cert and 1867 birth of the daughter but can't find anything backwards of forwards from it to open up avenues to explore.
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I've had a trawl around and can't find anything definite but clutching at straws is this a possibility
Death Q1 1868 Newcastle upon Tyne, aged 44, John Irving
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There's one at Tynemouth in 1864, too early given the birth of the daughter in 1867 but beyond that I'm really struggling.
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Marriage certificate, 1848.....what names do you see for witnesses?.....bride / groom / witnesses...are they literate?....does anyone sign with their mark?
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There's one at Tynemouth in 1864, too early given the birth of the daughter in 1867 but beyond that I'm really struggling.
But of course that daughter could have been born after John's death, perhaps substantially after his death; she would still have been given his name, unless her mother had remarried by that time.
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Did they have any other children or have you only found the 1867 one?
The surname could perhaps be under Irvine as well.
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The GRO index throws up children:
Mary Ann 1849
Elizabeth 1850 (d. 1851)
John 1852
Elizabeth 1853 (d. 1859)
Jane 1856
Robert 1862
Richard 1864
Elizabeth 1867
Bev
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Sorry not had notification of replies.
Witnesses in 1848;
Charles Irvin (his mark) & Thomas Oxley, signed.
Bride and groom both sign their names.
One child missing from the list in the last post is Richard Boag Irvin 1858-1860
Baptism in the name of Irvine, GRO birth index is Irwin
IRWIN, RICHARD BOAG mmn BOAG GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in TYNEMOUTH Volume 10B Page 131
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Wow someone has made a mistake on FreeREG for the 1848 Marriage Elizabeth as REAY not Boag.
Bapt same Church;
04 Jan 1832 THOMAS Irvin, son of JOHN/ANN, Father a Sawyer***
Abode Milburn Place
Burial of a JOHN Irvin 13 Sep 1849 age 55 of Cholera
Abode Pearson's Row, Milbourn Place
Cant see him on 1841 Census though!
Also Burial of child of John/Ann;
04 Jan 1832 ANN age 4 abode same address
Trish :)
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Add in a baptism in 1842, Tynemouth
23 Oct
William
Parents Charles + Margaret Irvin
abode Milbourn Place
father a Sawyer
born 21st June 1842
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DC13-LZ1
There is an Elizabeth Boag, 11, in Milbourn Place in 1841, with Richard and Mary Ann
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-13GL-FQFG
But no Irvins?
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Britain, Merchant Seamen, 1835-1857, online somewhere
Any John Irvin possibles?
Born, or when unemployed resides at, North Shields?
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Parents Charles + Margaret Irvin
abode Milbourn Place
father a Sawyer
In 1851 Charles Irvin, 30, sawyer, born Sunderland, and wife Margaret are at 3 Middle Street, North Shields
piece 2409 folio 329 page 34
No William but have other children.
Next page, and at number 4 Middle Street, are Elizabeth Irvine, 21, Seaman's Wife, and two young daughters. Our John's family?
Is that age for Charles right?
Births of children have mother as Clark.
Marriage might be Charles Irvin + Margaret Clark, 24 June 1837, Wallsend
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XX69-1TN
Very frustrating. It is the last marriage at Wallsend before civil registration begins, with the new style marriage registers. And, unusually for the north east, Wallsend are sending in BTs for those. See next image!
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Burial of a JOHN Irvin 13 Sep 1849 age 55 of Cholera
Abode Pearson's Row, Milbourn Place
There are a few Irvings in Pearson's Row in 1841
George Irving 30 Waggoner, Not born county
Susannah Irving 29 Yes
John Irving 2 Yes
Maria Irving 1 Yes
Next house
Ann Irving 52 Yes
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHK-93GL-FQT8
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In 1851 Charles Irvin, 30, sawyer, born Sunderland, and wife Margaret are at 3 Middle Street, North Shields
A possible? :-\
Baptism at Bishopwearmouth, 27 May 1821
Charles
Son of John + Ann Irvin
abode Wearmouth
father a Sawyer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C3SW-S9GL-M
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I've really struggled with the census lately, every family I want to find are mangled transcriptions.
With this lot all I ever managed to work out was from the 1848 marriage so John born anytime from 1828 or earlier and his father being called John. I'd ignored the witness.
There's something odd with the marriage though as the GRO cert shows Elizabeth Boag and the register (the pre 1837 style even though it's 1848) is Elizabeth Reay.
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think that may be a copy written up later, possibly the BT. It's the pre civil registration style.
Same date, same place, same groom
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6P6-72G
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There's something odd with the marriage though as the GRO cert shows Elizabeth Boag and the register (the pre 1837 style even though it's 1848) is Elizabeth Reay.
At this time the parish church at Tynemouth was keeping its parish registers in the 'old style'
However if you were to purchase the certificate from the GRO you would find it in the usual post 1837 format.
We had a similar issue here https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806861.msg6658993#msg6658993 replies 28 - 34.
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Does GITN have the cert?
Marriage 18 May 1848 Parish Church, Tynemouth
John Irvin "of full age", occ; mariner, bachelor, son of John Irvin, occ; sawyer
Elizabeth Boag "a minor", spinster, dau of Richard Boag occ; waterman
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there's a seaman's ticket 181712 for a John Irvin born Blyth 27 Jan(?) 1822, when unemployed resides at North Shields. :-\
It's not an uncommon name among Merchant Seaman.
::)
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I didn't pick the one born 1822 up!
Maybe this isn't going to work!
Education & Work
John Irvin*
Born 1821 +/- 10
Keywords "North Shields"
Results in record set "Britain, Merchant Seamen, 1835-1857"
Irvin, John, born 1818, year 1841
Irvin, John, born 1823, year 1853
Irvine, John, born 1819, year 1845
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I've got the GRO cert and the register I posted. The only difference between the two is the surname of the bride, Reay on the PR and Boag on the GRO cert.
I'm having a very brain fogged day and still trying to take everything in, confusion reigns between my ears for some reason so apologies if I'm a bit slow today.
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Well you have the John Irvin seaman born Blyth, as found by osprey, as a possibility to investigate.
There may be more than one record per seaman in there, excluding the index, but they do not all have the same level of detail.
Also Charles Irvin the marriage witness, is he Elizabeth's neighbour in 1851?
Not forgetting the death of John of Pearson's Row, Milbourn Place, age 55, in 1849, as found by Trish.
And anything else that has come up!
John
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Well you have the John Irvin seaman born Blyth, as found by osprey, as a possibility to investigate.
There may be more than one record per seaman in there, excluding the index, but they do not all have the same level of detail.
Also Charles Irvin the marriage witness, is he Elizabeth's neighbour in 1851?
Not forgetting the death of John of Pearson's Row, Milbourn Place, age 55, in 1849, as found by Trish.
And anything else that has come up!
John
Thanks for that, I would have been looking at a month to work that out the way I am just now.
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the 1841 record is a list of various John Irvin+ entries with name of ships so nothing to help trace them.
The 1845 record is another list of Johns + their ticket number + name of port - 138 of them.
1 with Blyth - 181712, 3 with North Shields 110740, 246202, 402673
John Irvin on the 1853 record is age 30 born North Shields and from the ship Rowena of Newcastle. No ticket number given.
:-\
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Possible?
CHARLES Irvin bapt 27 May 1821 Bishopwearmouth, Durham to JOHN/ANN