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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Oxfordshire => England => Oxfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Mpr1985 on Thursday 07 January 21 16:31 GMT (UK)
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I'm having some trouble identifying a Frederick Isaac Florey. He first shows up in his 1897 Yorkshire (Halifax) marriage to Margaret Ann Atkinson. He can be found living in Leeds under his full name in the 1901 and 1911 censuses (born abt 1867 in the 1901 census, born abt 1866 in the 1911 census, born Standlake Oxfordshire in both, wife Margaret Ann born 1863 and 1864 in these censuses respectively, born Thirsk, Yorkshire). Among his children, Frederick Isaac had a son of the same name, born 1899, Leeds. Frederick Isaac senior dided in Leeds in 1919, his birth date estimated to be 1867.
In his marriage, his father is named Isaac, deceased at the time of marriage (1897), and his occupation is noted as Farmer. No trace of a Frederick Isaac before his 1897 marriage can be found. There are no Frederick Isaac's of any surname born in Oxfordshire ten years either side of 1866, and there are only two eligible Isaac Floreys in the general area who might have been his father, both being deceased by 1897.
One of these Isaac Floreys had a son called Isaac Florey, who was born in Standlake in 1866 and was an agricultural labourer in 1881, the same as his occupation at the time of his marriage in 1897. This Isaac Florey also has no death record, just as Frederick Isaac has no birth record. I can't find either Frederick Isaac Florey or this Isaac Florey in the 1891 census.
The simple answer is that these are the same person and Isaac simply added Frederick to his name. The problem is that Isaac Florey's father was never a farmer, and was a shoemaker in every census and also was listed as such in his death certificate. The descendant of Frederick Isaac I'm doing this tree for bclaims a familial connection to Nobel Prize winner Howard Florey, and if Frederick Isaac was indeed the same person as the above mentioned Isaac Florey (son of Isaac Florey and Ellen Turner), this would indeed make him a cousin of Howard Florey (from memory, second cousins, maybe once removed). However, the father's occupation simply doesn't fit.
The other, much weaker, possibility is that Frederick Isaac was son to a different Isaac Florey who was indeed a farmer. This Isaac Florey was born in Islip, Oxfordshire abt. 1830 and died in Headington district in 1870 (not to be confused with the Isaac who married Ellen Turner, who was born in 1832 (inferred 1833 on death record), Standlake and died in 1880). This Isaac was born and died in Oxfordshire but lived in Gloucestershire on a number of censuses. This Isaac seems never to have married and there's no evidence I can find that he ever had any children whatsoever. His connection to Standlake is weak also, although his father seems to have been from there.
Most trees listed Frederick Isaac's father as an Emmanuel Florey. This is based on an incorrectly transcribed census in which 'Josiah' is misread as 'Frederick'. Because this is the only 'Frederick' Florey to be found with a similar birth date and place of birth, people assumed this to be the correct person. It isn't, and his name was Josiah.
I'm really struggling to find anyone else who Frederick Isaac may have been the son of. I have one moderate possibility and one very weak possibility and no others. I was just hoping for some help. Finding him in the 1891 census would really help me.
Thanks.
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"One of these Isaac Floreys had a son called Isaac Florey, who was born in Standlake in 1866 and was an agricultural labourer in 1881, the same as his occupation at the time of his marriage in 1897. This Isaac Florey also has no death record, just as Frederick Isaac has no birth record. I can't find either Frederick Isaac Florey or this Isaac Florey in the 1891 census."
I think you will find this Isaac Florey appears with his parents Isaac & Ellen on the 1871 census, with widowed mother on the 1881 census. He marries Louisa Clara Brown mq 1886 Aston. They then appear on 1891 census Isaac aged 26 born Oxford occ "Drayman Midland Railway. He is with his wife & children in 1901 & 1911 census, electoral registers until 1931 and dies aged 68 in 1932 Birmingham.
Will continue to search
John
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Sorry - wrong census entry
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I think you will find this Isaac Florey appears with his parents Isaac & Ellen on the 1871 census, with widowed mother on the 1881 census. He marries Louisa Clara Brown mq 1886 Aston. They then appear on 1891 census Isaac aged 26 born Oxford occ "Drayman Midland Railway. He is with his wife & children in 1901 & 1911 census, electoral registers until 1931 and dies aged 68 in 1932 Birmingham.
Will continue to search
John
Thanks. Unfortunately, that particular Isaac Florey was born Isaac Flory (withoutout an 'e') in Headington district in 1864. Due to various mistranscriptions, he doesn't immediately show as living contempiraneously with the Isaac Florey, b. 1866, whose parents were Isaac Florey and Ellen Turner. The 1864 Isaac Flory was born to Emannuel Florey and Ann Miles. You can find him in the 1881 census under 'Isaac Filorey'. Nearly all trees on Ancestry have these two people's parentage mixed up.
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Welcome to Rootschat
You says your Isaac’s parents were Isaac & Ellen nee Turner. That marriage was 1865 and Isaac is transcribed as Horey - www.freebmd.org.uk
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Per GRO online births
Isaac Florey mmn Turner June qtr 1866 Witney 3a 641
Death of Isaac Florey Aged 40 March qtr 1870 Headington 3a 471
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1851/61 & 1871 censuses - look at entries for Drinkwater/Hamblin
1851 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGX3-QH8
1871 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD8N-MLR
1861. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M72R-J3Q
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Welcome to Rootschat
You says your Isaac’s parents were Isaac & Ellen nee Turner. That marriage was 1865 and Isaac is transcribed as Horey - www.freebmd.org.uk
Thanks. There are quite a few Floreys with similar names from similar places, and the spelling of Florey and Flory changes between family and time (and census taker). Two different Isaac Floreys with only a couple of years between them state they're from Standlake, although only one is registered there (Witney district) while the other was born in a different district (Headington) but still states Standlake as his place of birth. This latter one moved to Aston with his family and stayed and married there as an adult but due to mistranscriptions is hard to find. This Isaac Florey/Flory married Louisa Clara Brown and died in Birmingham in 1932. The other Isaac Florey has no death record, unless he added Frederick to his name and died as Frederick Isaac Florey in Leeds in 1919, for which there's mixed evidence.
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I should also add that the certificate I ordered for the marriage of Frederick Isaac Florey wasn't a copy of the original but had been filled out in modern times, presumably due to my order. I'm not sure why that was. It hasn't happened to me before. Could it be that the certificate was damaged and his father's occupation was misread by the modern registrar as 'farmer' instead of 'shoemaker'? The certificate contains one other error, stating his wife's father was deceased at the time of marriage, even though, unless I identified the wrong person, he was not.
Could it be a lazy registrar at the time? Or maybe Frederick had a strong Oxfordshire accent that the Yorkshire registrar found hard to understand.
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Can I just confirm that the Isaac who married Louisa BROWN was the son of Emmanuel and Ann, and the Isaac who was the son of Isaac and Ellen is the one who is missing after 1881?
Ellen's son Walter died in 1882 so that equates with her details in 1911 and other children are still living.
Debra :)
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Can I just confirm that the Isaac who married Louisa BROWN was the son of Emmanuel and Ann, and the Isaac who was the son of Isaac and Ellen is the one who is missing after 1881?
Ellen's son Walter died in 1882 so that equates with her details in 1911 and other children are still living.
Debra :)
Yes, that's correct. The son of Isaac and Ellen disappears after 1881, and Frederick Isaac appears out of nowhere in 1897. Both were born in the same year -/+1 and the same village and both had a father called Isaac, although a different occupation (farmer) is stated for Frederick Isaac's father on his marriage certificate than Isaac's father (a lifelong shoemaker). There are only two Isaac Floreys in Oxfordshire who could be Frederick Isaac's father, and one seems not to have died childless (and not had any connection to Standlake, other than that his father was born there). The other is the Isaac is the one who married Ellen Turner and had a son called Isaac in the same year and village as Frederick Isaac states in the 1901 and 1911 censuses.
Moreover, Isaac son of Isaac and Ellen is definitely related to Howard Florey (Australian Nobel prize winner), and Frederick Isaac apparently passed down stories of being related to Howard Florey to his descendants. I checked the other Isaac Florey (the one who probably died childless) for a connection to Howard Florey and couldn't find one (although, since his father was from Standlake, he probably would be related at some point, but there was no close connection).