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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: DBest on Thursday 07 January 21 21:59 GMT (UK)
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Apologies if this is posted in the wrong area.
Im am trying to find the exact location of two streets found on the census, both in Shroeditch, London that no longer exist.
1906 - 17 Elva Place
1916 - 4 Pimlico Walk
Is there any way of finding where thes are/what they became, like on an old map or something? Would i have to go to the library local to these places to look up this information?
Many thanks in return
David
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Hi,
For Pimlico Walk, go to
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.41&lat=51.53018&lon=-0.08256&layers=163&b=1
Note the search bar on the left - try changing these and you can explore how the streets changed over time.
Repeat for your other location.
Simon
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Welcome to rootschat David.
You say these places are from the censuses but then you put dates of 1906 and 1916. Are these dates for these addresses from other records such as birth or marriage certificates?
The reason I mention censuses is because you can follow the enumerator’s route (on page 1 of any census), and look at neighbouring addresses to try to determine where your specific address was located.
There have been many name changes around the London area as well as general street changes due to bombing in WW2, slum clearances etc as I am sure you are aware. Being able to narrow the location down a bit often helps find them on a map.
There are many many maps online. ;)
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Maybe the street names have changed?
I use thehunthouse.com:
https://www.maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/Old_to_New_London_Street_Name_Changes.htm
There are a number of databases there:
Old to New Street Names, 1929-1945
Old to New Street Names, 1857-1929
and New to Old Street Names
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So far, I haven't been able to find any mention of Elva Place. I wonder if it could be the name of a row of houses rather than a 'street'.
If you can give more details about the context of this address it might help eg was it from a census.
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There was an Ilva Place in Shoreditch - is that the one?
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London Street Listings Index in 1921.
Haggerston Road, Dalston E8, 131 Brunswick Street to 372 Kingsland Road
(West side to Acton Street & East Side to Albion Road are in Shoreditch; remainder is in Hackney)
West Side
... here is Dunston Road ...
1 Duke of Sussex, Walter H Arber
3 Skeel Horace Geo, fishmonger
5 Croll John, grocer
7 Baxter George, butcher
9 Sherman Davis, ladies tailor
11 Ellis Robert, wardrobe dealer
... here is Ilva Place ...
15 Cole James Henry, toy maker
17 Moody John, dining rooms
19 Bibby John Thomas, bedroom furniture maker
21 & 23 Kingsland Steam Joinery Works Limited
25 Diamond Wood Co Ltd, fire lighter manufacturers
27 & 29 Hackney Working Mens Club, Edward J Pipe, sec
London County Council School
Dunston Road runs alongside Regent's Canal.
There are relatively new developments in Haggerston Road, and a entrance into Garden Place - which may be a new name for Ilva Place?
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Garden Place - which may be a new name for Ilva Place?
Yes - that's confirmed on the web page that you linked to earlier https://www.maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/New_to_Old_Abolished_London_Street_Names.htm
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Garden Place - which may be a new name for Ilva Place?
Yes - that's confirmed on the web page that you linked to earlier https://www.maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/New_to_Old_Abolished_London_Street_Names.htm
Hmmm?!
Says 'Present Name - Ilva Place" and "Former Name - Garden Place" ;D
Changed pre-1912.
Google street view definitely shows Garden Place.
Would have thought that was the Present Name!
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You're right I had that the wrong way round. But see this from 1896:
ILVA PLACE. It was agreed that Garden-place, Haggerston, be re-named llva-place, the subsidiary name abolished and the houses re-numbered
(28 March 1896, Shoreditch Observer )
The last newspaper reference to Ilva place (that I can see) was in 1929. Perhaps it was changed back at that point.
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Wow - thanks so much guys for youre help.
Really much more helpful than i thought would be the case.
Ruskie - My mistake, sorry theyre not from the Census, Elva place was address on Enlistment/service records in 1906. Im pretty sure its Elva and not Ilva, or another derivative, but maybe the scribe recorded it wrong? - see attached at bottom. As Ilva place is just around the corner from Wilmer Gardens (where they were living in 1901) and Regents Row in 1891 its highly likely this is the place.
Pimlico Walk was from 1916 - from a marriage cert.
Thanks agian everyone. More help than i possibly could have expected.
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Good detective work everyone. ;)
David, you are right, this clearly says Elva Place. Elva/Ilva - an easy and understandable misinterpretation. :)
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Garden Place shown here:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18.58566114143308&lat=51.53654&lon=-0.07263&layers=163&right=BingHyb
The 1916 map here shows it as Ilva Place:
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/531500/181500/12/101107
(I don’t think links to this site take you directly to the street, so you might have to do some searching)
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Got a definitive answer, re Ilva Place & Garden Place, from The Hunt House ;D
Garden Place was renamed as part of Ilva Place in 1896, along with Mark’s Place, which is too small to see on maps.
Ilva Place was redeveloped as part of the Haggerston Estate in 1936 and the name was lost.
Some of this Estate has been redeveloped again since.
The fairly new Garden Place you see today is coincidentally nearby, but nothing to do with the original.