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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Top-of-the-hill on Monday 11 January 21 20:50 GMT (UK)
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I am hoping someone has access to lists of clergymen. I am trying to sort out two men, father and son, who seem to have swapped livings between them. They were James Coling and his son Richard James Coling, and the livings were Stow Maries in Essex and Chillenden in Kent. As far as I can make out, they swapped livings in 1869, then James remained in Essex and Richard in Kent until father died, when Richard went to Essex. I don't think either can have been in the original places for more than a year or so, then there was an added complication in Chillenden with the appointment of James Marryat briefly in 1868.
This has all been gleaned from newspaper reports, and I have checked the parish records, but find no sign of Coling senior.
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This might help if he was ordained in the first half of the 19th century but it only runs to 1835
https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/
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I've been through the clergy listing and can't see them or alternative spellings.
The last entry for Chillenden was in 1828 - curate was Francis Hayles Wollaston
Gadget
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That database is too early - the father was still at college in 1841. Is that the only on-line list of clergy? My brain got quite addled last night, trying to work out who was where when, and I only started on it after looking at the picture of the church you helped with! I presume Coling junior was responsible for the restoration of the church, and I wondered if it could be his son in the picture, but he didn't have one.
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I did say it was early but it's the only one I know of.
I've used it for some of my ancestors.
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Individual churches often have lists of clergy. Also parish records often have their names/signatures in them.
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Under normal circumstances, your local library or archives may have a copy of "Crockford's Clerical Directory".
You can find in there a (shorthand!) biography of each cleric.
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Some editions of Crockford are on line, I think on Ancestry.
Try also searching for them on Alumni Cantabrigienses and Alumni Oxonienses
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For most of the C19th clergy in the CofE needed to be university graduates. So college records are always the place to look for information on them.
James Coling appears in the records of St Johns, Cambridge in 1847 ( described as s of Richard, Gent of Banbury).
Richard James Coling is in the same college list in 1862 ( described as s of James, linen-draper of Chipping Norton).
Both are mentioned as being at Chillenden, Kent and Stow Maries in Essex at different times.
I would guess they are related, but don't appear to be father/son.
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Some editions of Crockford are on line, I think on Ancestry.
Try also searching for them on Alumni Cantabrigienses and Alumni Oxonienses
Ancestry has Crockford's editions from:
1868, 1874, 1885, 1898, 1908 and 1932
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Just three entries as far as I can see - 1868, 1874, 1898
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Thanks for those replies. It did cross my mind late last night that they would be in the university lists, though I am not sure they would help with the changes of livings?
"Richard James Coling is in the same college list in 1862 ( described as s of James, linen-draper of Chipping Norton)."
Anthony - that is quite odd,as in 1861, James was a curate in Shrewsbury; grandfather Richard was the draper, died 1846.
K.G - as you say, Crockfords would normally be my first thought. I might try ringing or emailing the Cathedral Archives.
Gadget - just seen your reply. I don't have access to Ancestry at the moment, so can't check it.
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Thanks for those replies. It did cross my mind late last night that they would be in the university lists, though I am not sure they would help with the changes of livings?
"Richard James Coling is in the same college list in 1862 ( described as s of James, linen-draper of Chipping Norton)."
Anthony - that is quite odd,as in 1861, James was a curate in Shrewsbury; grandfather Richard was the draper, died 1846.
K.G - as you say, Crockfords would normally be my first thought. I might try ringing or emailing the Cathedral Archives.
Gadget - just seen your reply. I don't have access to Ancestry at the moment, so can't check it.
Both are listed, with details of birth and/or baptism, parentage, and the places and dates of the livings they had in the Cambridge Alumni Collection on Ancestry.
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I'll PM you :)
I looked around for a guide to the abbreviations and found a great advert for 'Vino Sacro, the Perfect Altar Wine' When I took communion, I thought it was just watered plonk :-X
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Both appear in the online Cambridge Alumni database, with a summarised biography - essentially the same as in the printed versions found in various places online, plus an "enhanced" version, and free to view. As Antony pointed out earlier, they appear not to be father and son, though the similarities in their appointments might suggest they were related to each other and possibly also the patron(s) of the churches they served.
They are the only two people in the database named Coling, so it's easy to give a link to both their details:
https://venn.lib.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search-2018.pl?sur=coling&suro=w&fir=&firo=c&cit=&cito=c&c=all&z=all&tex=&sye=&eye=&col=all&maxcount=50
I see there's a gap in James's record from 1858-1867, so perhaps his appointment in Shrewsbury was never reported to Cambridge. Those with access to Crockford might be able to tell us more; copies for that period might also include the names of the patrons of the livings concerned.
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Thanks Arthur - that sounds promising.
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Thank you everyone, things are a bit clearer now, but I think I will have to re-assess the earlier relationships. Maybe this evening!
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The Cambridge Alumni gives much better information, very much like the info that I got from the CofE db for some of my ancestors.
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I see there's a gap in James's record from 1858-1867, so perhaps his appointment in Shrewsbury was never reported to Cambridge. Those with access to Crockford might be able to tell us more; copies for that period might also include the names of the patrons of the livings concerned.
I've now managed to check the 1874 Crockford myself, and it helps to fill the gaps by showing the following appointments for James:
1850 - Curate of St Mark, Wolverhampton
1853 - Perpetual Curate of Stockingford, Nuneaton
1860 - Curate of Astley, Salop
1861 - Missionary(?) Curate of a district in St Chad, Shrewsbury
(no date given) - Curate of Badby with Newnham, Northants
1867-8 - Rector of Chillenden, Kent
1868-present - Rector of Stowe-Maries, Diocese of Rochester
Looking on at the 1885 edition where both Colings appear, the patron of each parish is given as part of the current incumbent's entry. For Richard, who had been in Chillenden since 1869, the patron is Rev. J. Coling. For James, still in Stowe-Maries, the patron is "present Rector". So it looks as though James owned the patronage of both parishes and nominated himself first to Chillenden and then to Stow-Maries; and nominated Richard to Chillenden as well. This does suggest very strongly that James and Richard were somehow related.
Patronage was (still is?) something that could be bequeathed and inherited, and I believe also bought. Further research would be needed to find out how James came to be patron of these two parishes.
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I saw in one of the press reports that James was patron of Stow Maries, but I didn't know he was patron of Chillenden. 2 nice quiet little livings?
Richard was definitely James' son, I have just spent a couple of hours sorting out my random notes and filling in the gaps. ( I have a little more now from your last post.) Richard moved to Stow Maries when his father died.
Thanks again.
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1908 Crockford shows Richard as having been at Stowe-Maries since 1888, and as with James, the patron is "present Rector".
The probate index for James in 1888 confirms that Richard James was his son, but there still seems to me to be something a little unusual. You said above:
"Richard James Coling is in the same college list in 1862 ( described as s of James, linen-draper of Chipping Norton)."
Anthony - that is quite odd,as in 1861, James was a curate in Shrewsbury; grandfather Richard was the draper, died 1846.
Richard's baptism gives his father as James, linen draper, and James went to Cambridge in 1846 and was ordained in 1850. What strikes me as odd is that a married man in his late 20s would go to university at that time - I thought they were still the preserve of younger single men.
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Richard James' baptism in 1844 gives his mother as Sarah D'Oyly. I haven't yet found a marriage between James and Sarah.
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Marriage by Licence, 8 June 1867, Poole, Dorset
James Coling, Rector of Chillendon and Sarah Mary Brayne
Add - witnesses were V Griffin and H F Griffin
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That is his second marriage.
1843 Q3 he married Sarah Mary Doyly Heynes, Chipping Norton.
The only baptism record I have found does not mention father's occupation?
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When James was born, he was registered as a Baptist, went to Stepney College, studying divinity (1841) and was baptised Banbury 1846, presumably a requirement for Cambridge. (And ordination!)
On the subject of patrons of the livings, press reports of the Chillenden appointments say 1867 and 68 that it is the Lord Chancellors living.
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That is his second marriage.
1843 Q3 he married Sarah Mary Doyly Heynes, Chipping Norton.
The only baptism record I have found does not mention father's occupation?
It's from transcriptions of this record set
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNT-S23C?mode=g
Chipping Norton
England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Add - the marriage should be there too.
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That is his second marriage.
1843 Q3 he married Sarah Mary Doyly Heynes, Chipping Norton.
The only baptism record I have found does not mention father's occupation?
It's at Chipping Norton, 10 Jul 1844 (images at Ancestry):
Richard James s of James & Sarah D'oyly Coling of Chipping Norton - Linen Draper
Interesting what you've found about James's background, and his baptism in 1846.
I've had a look in the 1868 Crockford as well now, and in the appendix it records James's appointment to Chillenden. As you say, it says the Lord Chancellor was Patron, so presumably James acquired the rights at some point while he was there. It appears he already owned the patronage of Stow Maries, as he is listed against his predecessor there (Harvey Atkyns Browne).
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In 1861, Sarah seems to be called Margaret
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7YF-LVF
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1843 Q3 he married Sarah Mary Doyly Heynes, Chipping Norton.
It's from transcriptions of this record set
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSNT-S23C?mode=g
Chipping Norton
England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Add - the marriage should be there too.
I've just found it in the images at Ancestry - 25 Jul 1843:
James Coling, a linen draper of Stratford-upon-Avon; Mary Sarah D'oyly Heynes of Chipping Norton; both full age and fathers are gentlemen.
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I'm not sure how accurate this is, or if you've seen it, but throwing it in the mix
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MDMN-CQK
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The linen draper keeps cropping up, but James may have been in his father's business before he was ordained. His father died in 1846, so that may have freed him to train for the church. Some records I have seen but not saved seem to show that Richard senior c1791 - 1846 had moved to Stratford late in his life.
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GRO index: Richard Coling aged 56 died Dec qtr 1846 Stratford on Avon (16/443)
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What occupation did James have on the 1841? His father, Richard, is down as a Gentleman on the marriage entry.
Add - I had a look at the Shrewsbury, St Chad registers and he is recorded against quite a few entries
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He was at Stepney college. Does that invalidate my theory - he must have been heading for the church then, but the Baptist Church.
Was that when he was curate at St Chad?
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Stepney College would seem to confirm a Baptist connection (though he doesn't appear in the list of students at this site):
https://dissacad.english.qmul.ac.uk/sample1.php?detail=achist&histid=25&acadid=183
In those days it would have been a case of either Baptist or C of E, not a bit of both.
Richard Coling senior left a fairly lengthy will, proved PCC 1847, which might be of interest. I also tried looking at TNA's Discovery for "James Coling" and came up with a few results that allude to some of what we've been discussing:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_dss=range&_sd=1800&_ed=1900&_q=%22james+coling%22
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Thanks for those pieces. I wonder why he does not appear at the college - he was there in the 1841 census.
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Maybe he didn't finish the course? Or because he defected to the C of E he was airbrushed from the records?